[Galain]

@ Rashan: The main reason I haven't been on either of the last 2 lynch trains when I've agreed with both lynches is because people keep rushing through the lynches. I keep making the effort to come back a couple of hours before day end, and I always find myself sitting around at night. I'm not happy about this, I've said so before, and I'm not sure if it's happening because people can't seem to remember that there are double voters and are therefore hammering early, or because scummy people are trying to rush through lynches without making full use of the day.

I repeat myself, I said much the same thing all of about 1 page ago, and I'm not that pleased about being called out about something I already pointed out and explained and even complained about earlier.

Also, someone deserves a serious smakc for makign all the nights so long.

[Silanah]

Dead thread is dead
Spam

[Galain]

Does anyone want to talk about something interesting, or something boring to pass the time?

I just finished reading Confessor which I consider my penitence for starting reading the series and liking it, but not giving it up when it became utter utter garbage.

Next on my reading list is Heroes Die by Matthew Woodring Stover, which I picked up off a recommendation.

[Silanah]

Books are books, lets talk about necrophilia

[Korlat]

I'm just going to assume that Night's going to time out.

That's ... stupid.

[Path-Shaper]

Another night.

As you all stare at the cooling corpse of Kaschan, you can't help but wonder if it was a good thing. That annoying medium would sure come up handy right now. Many of you take a minute of concentration to try to send him a message beyond the grave on what you think of his actions. You don't know if he can hear you, but it's worth the try.

You find a dark corner, back against the wall, grabbing an empty bottle as a poor excuse for a weapon. It won't help much, really, but it helps fight the feeling of helplessness, and slowly you fall asleep.

---

You wake up, startled by a nightmare.

Something is missing.


After looking around, you realize what it is. No screaming, no commotion, no shouts of panic.

No-one died.




It is day 4

16 players still playing, 9 votes to lynch, 8 votes for night



16 have not voted: Anomandaris, D'riss, Galain, Galayn Lord, Hood's Path, Korlat, Liosan, Meanas, Mockra, Omtose, Rashan, Ruse, Shadow, Silanah, Tennes, Thyrllan.

[Silanah]

Finally

[Galain]

Well that's interesting. It could be really bad news (2 recruitments). Maybe we've killed the creature at some point if we're really lucky. Maybe our guards are doing a good job. Maybe the witch busted out a BP.

Hard to tell though.

[Korlat]

Vote Tennes


Primarily out of annoyance. But I won't be disappointed if everyone else wants to cut the anchor loose, and speed lynches him.

I'm headed to bed - I just wanted to see the end of Night. And I'm not sure how to interpret the lack of a result - was Ampelas the other Psycho, leaving us with no scum capable of a kill? Did the Witch use their blanket BP? We won't know without either credible reveals, or until we all get to SH.

[Liosan]

I would hope the witch used her bp and we arent facing two new recruits. With the lynch of kaschen i thought we were in a pretty strong position despite the loss of cf, one killer down, one confirmed undead down and one likely undead down for the loss of a medium. Perhaps given that both evil teams have been reduced it would be a good time to use a group wide bp as it keeps their numbers low and ours high going into today. Personally i would have waited until we had a reveal, but i can see the sense in using it. On the other hand we are left with the possibility that there are two new recruits out there, thats assuming no vigilante struck as well, but i cannot see the necromancer(s) being so lucky.

Tennes does fit the bill for a remaining killer, he is not really playing the game, perhaps he intended to be the low poster killer and has been forced to remain in that role by the death of his partner day 1. The fact is we have no coroner finder so making trains and seeing who jumps on is now total guess work as to whether that means anything, so using our lynch on tennes now is a double edged sword. On one hand he is a risk to leave in until the end game, and should be removed lest we are beaten by indolence, but a greater argument in my eyes is that we cannot afford the risk that he is roleless innocent and we wste a lynch. No one died last night, so if we go after the right person there are maybe going to be two new recruits trying to block the lynch.

I am kind of torn by which way to go. If the witch did use her bp, then i think it would be a good idea taking out tennes, if the witch didn't, well we have bigger fish to fry. My head hasnt been in the game the last few days, but i am getting a strange vibe from anomandaris. The one major problem is see now is that we are in a weekend break so a good few players won't post at all, and so are not going to be available to answer our cases made against them. I am still worried by the day 1 actions of omtose and galain, which they fell into with remarkable ease. We have a tendancy to ignore players who made themselves a target on day 1 but survived.

@korlat - whats your rush, thats two days running with a quick vote?

This post has been edited by Liosan: 24 January 2009 - 10:57 AM

[Silanah]

Well, im off to sleep.
Dont lynch anyone while im gone
Tennes I would like to get rid of because there isn't much point keeping him around. I think he has a total of about 19 posts and one vote which he later removed.
Someone could construct a small case on what little posts he has or people can bring out cases of their own.

As for no kills.. for all we know, Kaschan could have been the creature considering I believe time ran out. Maybe the killers didn't get on to send in night actions.

[Liosan]

Did night time out? maybe we should look at those players then who disappeared yesterday, maybe they forgot their provisionals. Although using meta is against the rules Plus i don't think you really need to construct a case to lynch someone like tennes, its a waste of time even quoting his posts.

[Liosan]

wow, dead thread is dead.

[Anomandaris]

No new posts in 5 1/2 hours? Well I guess I'll step into the breach.

After the speed lynch yesterday, I got to thinking about how our understanding of the game is seriously impaired by not having a CF. We have no idea if we were onto a good thing or not in lynching Kaschan - I'm inclined to think negatively, myself. I didn't see much strength in the case at all, so I was very surprised when people started trumpeting that it was very strong and managed to push through a speed lynch. It occured to me that now there are no CFs, the scum have no need to hide any more. They can come out and be aggressive and push for lynches now, because noone can tell if they are wrong - there's not going to be any backlash to an incorrect lynch.

In that light, I've decided to look for people who had suddenly become more aggressive on Day 3 - to me, those are the most likely to be scum. Quite easy to find really: Silanah, Omtose and Shadow were the main people behind the Kaschan lynch.

In the next few posts I will summarize cases on the three of them. Might take a while for me to get them all together, so please be patient. I'll field questions when I'm done/if I see that there's been some response in between cases.

EDIT: Crosspost with Liosan. Seriously, 5 1/2 hours and we decide to post at the same time?

This post has been edited by Anomandaris: 24 January 2009 - 05:25 PM

[Korlat]

Liosan, on Jan 24 2009, 02:57 AM, said:

@korlat - whats your rush, thats two days running with a quick vote?

Both were cast in the brief time before Day started and when I had to go to bed. Kaschan I'm still very confident was the right vote, though Silannah wound up making the case while I was gone; Tennes is, as I said, just out of annoyance at his game-play (or, rather, non-play) style. I don't even think there's a need to build a case against Tennes based on quotes - the complete lack of substance in every single post so far is rather incriminating (the few times he's mentioned stuff actually going on in game, it was just to parrot other's conclusions).

[Anomandaris]

Right, Silanah first. I'm not going to do a post by post rundown because that would take too long. If you cast your minds back, you will recall that Silanah had very little to say on Days 1 and 2. Apart from coming on and occasionally stating his concerns, the closest thing he had to content was this:

Silanah, on Jan 22 2009, 04:30 AM, said:

Dead thread is dead
Well I went back over some of the posts and this is the one which stood out for me

Meanas, on Jan 21 2009, 11:03 AM, said:

Also to whom ever asked if the killers could be recruited. Think about it. Uhhh NO they couldn't. If their symps can't be recruited then the killers definately can't. We don't need to have every little thing spelled out for all of us do we.

Why is he certain they cannot be recruited? Maybe he is a killer himself and was recruited for all we know. Nothing has led us to believe that killers cannot be recruited as it only states so for the symps, not killers. The same could be thought for twins as they know each other but that wouldn't leave many people that are able to be recruited.
Might be a good idea for me to start looking at some of his posts.

So, fair enough, but that was the highlight in what was otherwise a series of for the most part contentless posts. Things started to get more interesting on Day 3 though:

Silanah, on Jan 23 2009, 03:44 AM, said:

Say goodbye to CF
Anyone have any theories on Ampelas' role?

Here he makes it clear that he has been thinking about the CF, or lack thereof. Not scummy in itself, but if you couple that with the change in play style it strikes me as suspicious.

Silanah, on Jan 23 2009, 07:54 AM, said:

Interesting that you are more suspicious of Korlat when he votes for you with no OMGUS vote.
Just raises more suspicions about you...
Time for me to read into your posts and construct a case I think since Kess isn't around to do so.

He then comes through on the above promise by coming up with a case on Kaschan, which I won't quote all of because that would take up too much space. The case, as far as I can see, was not very convincing. Here is why I think that:

Silanah's case on Kaschan said:

Kaschan, on Jan 21 2009, 01:20 PM, said:

D'riss, on Jan 21 2009, 05:37 PM, said:

That's me done for the day and as I couldn't get the stoopid phone working last night, I will see you all again tomorrow.

PS Thanks to whoever told me that post 720 was where I needed to go if I had no interest in the Iliad. Saved me hours this morning smile.gif

I thought I'd be sensible and read it all anyway, just in case dry.gif What an idiot.

I see the pissing-contest has finished, which is nice. Never good to read that shit, especially when you've still got about 200 posts to get through!

Now my brain is fried, but I will re-read the Korlat case again. So far I hadn't had him on my radar much.

Other people on the radar - I get the vibe off of Tennes, but only because people who post so little are so damn hidey! I thought that Mockra was very uneager to defend himself when he came on (said he was busy, etc)... don't know whether that's because he is inno and didn't really care, or because he's one of those players who just give up once they are caught out as scum.

Anyway, i should be around a bit more tonight.

Raises suspicions on Mockra and Korlat but doesn't actually make any attempt on a case. I see this as driving any suspicions towards his fellow necromancers onto others.

I went and took a look back to when Kaschan said this. There was already a case on Korlat, so he comments on it. Nothing scummy about that. But apart from that there were very few suspects around for him to deflect attention away from. I scroll down the thread a little, and what do I find but a mini case on Mockra by Kaschan, only 3 posts later! So this point is completely invalid.

Then there are a few examples of Kaschan advocating chasing after low posters. Fair enough. But when I see posts like this from last night:

Silanah, on Jan 23 2009, 10:14 PM, said:

Im starting to think we should just lynch tennes off in the first 30 mins of day. If he missed mod kill by 8 mins then he must know what time to post.

I can't help but feel there a little bit of hypocrisy in there somewhere.

Silanah's Case on Kaschan said:

Kaschan, on Jan 22 2009, 12:02 PM, said:

Woooah, some action! While Kessobahn was a bit hasty to reveal today, I can't honestly see him doing that unless it was real. I mean, you'd have to be a dumb-ass to try and get away with that.

Fener did post a code (although you'd have to really stretch the definition of the word "code"), but that's really the only scummy thing he's done.

So, is Fener a necro? I wouldn't have thought so, but shit, our way is clear. Either Fener is a necro, or Kessobahn is a liar, so we have our classic lynch-one-and-find-out scenario.

However, we should wait for him to come on and post a defence. Plus, I do agree that he's more likely to be a recruit than a full necro... but that doesn't mean we shouldn't lynch him tongue.gif

I will leave my vote until closer to deadline (or until he defends himself), as we seem to have two double-voters in the midst somewhere.

Path-Shaper, on Jan 22 2009, 03:24 PM, said:

Standard rules for the cult, you don't gain the powers of a Necromancer, you are merely on their team you keep your existing role etc.
Note its a little unclear, our own fault for not proof reading. I blame JA personally.

Also since its come up a few times, The Creature can still win if the others on his team are dead since he is an original member of the Undead. The Recruits require a Necromancer alive.

And just to complete the clarification process, Necromancers know if they have recruited successfully.

Mods, do the recruited learn the name of their masters?

If so, we should look through Fener's posts for clues if/when he comes back necro.

This is where he starts to get scared considering Kess has seen through Fener's lies. Brings up an issue of Kess being a lier, trying to sway the train but does not vote for Kess as that would seal his fate. Says he will leave his vote until closer to deadline which he never does as he hopes it wont come to a lynch.

First off, as far as I can tell he says that he thinks Kessobahn is telling the truth...not sure where the bit about him calling Kess a liar is. The general theme of the second half of this case was that Kaschan was attempting to prevent a speedlynch. I do not understand why not wanting to rush into something is a scum tactic - I don't think there was any doubt in my mind that Fener was going to get lynched, but I would quite like to have heard what he had to say for himself before his demise too - extra information is rarely a bad thing.

There's a couple more examples of the speedlynch avoidance, followed by the closer:

Silanah's Case on Kaschan said:

Kaschan, on Jan 23 2009, 02:19 AM, said:

Korlat, on Jan 23 2009, 03:50 AM, said:

Anyways, Kesso was making a case for Kaschan before he got snuffed, which makes me very suspicious ... especially since it made sense.


Vote Kaschan

Pfft, what? How does it make sense? Kesso got info from Emu, that's how he knew about Fener. He never had shit on me, and he said so himself.

Kessobahn, on Jan 22 2009, 02:26 PM, said:

I am convinced that Fener is the Necromancer, and when he comes up guilty, I believe we should go for Kaschan next, though here I have less to go on.

He had nothing but gut on me, and I have no idea why, but Korlat seems convinced? First post in the new day and he drops a vote on me with no evidence. Not much I can do to defend against that, really.

Though I am now more suspicious of Korlat. He could be undead trying to sheep-herd, or he could be a psycho trying to strike while the iron's hot and keep us from looking at possible killers (i.e. him).

But then, that's just my gut, and not enough to lay a vote this early in the day.

I'm off to work in about ten minutes and won't be back on until tonight.

The morning after, knows his life is up for debate and attempts to derail back onto Korlat who he has had suspicions about before but has not constructed a case on because there is none to be found.

 

OMGUS, definitely, and perhaps the closest Silanah comes to making a valid point - there was in fact a small case on Korlat on Day 2 (led by myself, incidentally) which was not particularly convincing, but probably worth mentioning if he did get round to making a case. It strikes me as a slightly kneejerk reaction from Kaschan - he must have known the heat was going to be on him after Kessobahn's throwaway accusation. And yes, it's probably valid that this is a little suspicious. The rest of the case though, was paper thin and really not worth much consideration.

So, he's made a weak case on Kaschan. He makes some assumptions about the executioners being twins...idle speculation for the most part, and I'm not going to pretend there was much suspicious about them. But after that, he decides that it is time to get rid of Tennes. Certainly, having low posters around is annoying, but as I pointed out earlier, it is somewhat hypocritical of him to be playing the 'Lynch the Low Poster' card at this juncture, seeing as he was putting it forwards as evidence of scummyness on the part of Kaschan.

In summary, Silanah has gone from posting very little to making some wild accusations after the CFs went away. Seems a bit scummy to me. However, his post on Kaschan was motivated mainly by Kessobahn's accusation, and as such he does kind of have a reason for doing so. I find him to be the least suspicious of the three accusers yesterday. That doesn't mean I discount him, however. Just that I'm more likely to put a vote on Omtose or Shadow.

[Liosan]

Now we are in ahot bed of activity

@ano - One thing that had me quite confused is how everyone yesterday cited morgoth as a great gut, yet ignored the fact that he named three suspects Emurlahn, Omtose and Fener in one post and fener and kaschan in another. If we are confident about his ability to find scum, shouldnt we be therefore looking at omtose? When i voted for tennes yesterday, omtose was rather vocal about how i should vote for kaschan and it felt like i was being reprimanded for not immeadiately jumping onto the kaschan train. I did swing my vote, but i wasn't in the most stable frame of mind at the time.

@korlat - I am reasonably happy with the kaschan lynch, his defense more than the case reassure me. Also i think i said the same thing about tennes, we do not need a case for a player who so blatantly will not become involved, regardless i think we should take it slowly.

Without a cornoer finder result i feel it may become a little rushed. it would be a natural reaction to the fact that we can only lynch and yet we get no info. I think we need to pace ourselves and try to force everyone to contribute cases, because without knowledge of the cf, the trains are no longer sources of info. We have to see instead if people are actually loking at the thread and seeking to find scum, or pretending to and trying to push us into bad lynches. i am interested to seeing ano's case on omtose. Not only because i ahve an odd suspicion about ano, but because i think omtose needs a serious looking at.

edit - stupid spelling, bee

This post has been edited by Liosan: 24 January 2009 - 06:16 PM

[Liosan]

the second half is on, so i will return in forty five.

[Anomandaris]

Liosan, on Jan 24 2009, 06:14 PM, said:

Now we are in ahot bed of activity

@ano - One thing that had me quite confused is how everyone yesterday cited morgoth as a great gut, yet ignored the fact that he named three suspects Emurlahn, Omtose and Fener in one post and fener and kaschan in another. If we are confident about his ability to find scum, shouldnt we be therefore looking at omtose? When i voted for tennes yesterday, omtose was rather vocal about how i should vote for kaschan and it felt like i was being reprimanded for not immeadiately jumping onto the kaschan train. I did swing my vote, but i wasn't in the most stable frame of mind at the time.

@korlat - I am reasonably happy with the kaschan lynch, his defense more than the case reassure me. Also i think i said the same thing about tennes, we do not need a case for a player who so blatantly will not become involved, regardless i think we should take it slowly.

Without a cornoer finder result i feel it may become a little rushed. it would be a natural reaction to the fact that we can only lynch and yet we get no info. I think we need to pace ourselves and try to force everyone to contribute cases, because without knowledge of the cf, the trains are no longer sources of info. We have to see instead if people are actually loking at the thread and seeking to find scum, or pretending to and trying to push us into bad lynches. i am interested to seeing ano's case on omtose. Not only because i ahve an odd suspicion about ano, but because i think omtose needs a serious looking at.

edit - stupid spelling, bee

I'm just about ready to do a case on Omtose. Might take a little while to get everything together, he's made a few more posts than Silanah. On the other hand, a lot of that is Day 1 Spam and stuff. Getting right on it.

[Liosan]

Actually going to head to the bar to watch the rest of the match, i will hopefully have a few cases to read and make in the morning, have a good evening guys.

This post has been edited by Liosan: 24 January 2009 - 06:25 PM