[Serc]

Has no one anything to say, out of curiosity?I hate posting my defences and having no one comment on them.

[Mockra]

i wasn't convinced about your case in the first place, hence no vote from me.

I'm still not sold on the witch using their power on night 1, but neither do I consider that a good enough reason to lynch you.

[Galain]

I've become quite ambivalent towards the case on you. I think there is some merit in it, and it is still the strongest case at the moment, but I'd still rather lynch Galayn Lord, Silanah or Tennes. But noone would go along with any of those, which leaves me eddying around in the middle of a huge damn stream. I have some slight suspicions against certain people on your lynch, but they are more feeling based than textually based.

[Ampelas]

I'm here, but I'm off soon... I dont think the witch should use her power tonight, simply because then the scum know that it was used. I think the main advantage in the witch's power is that it throws the scum completely off balance. Whenever there's less NKs than expected, the killers and cult will both have to try and decide whether someone was protected by a BP or recruited. The cult will also have to try decide which of the people on their list was actually recruited. That leaves killers who may slip up trying to build a case against someone they perceive to be either the witch or a cult member, and the cult possibly making false assumptions about their numbers. Stating when exactly the witch used his power takes that out of the game. Using it late game, especially in a 'lynch one, guard one' situation, or something similar also makes more sense to me. I understand the point that it saves more people tonight than any other time, but like someone else said, all the scum are also in that group that's saved. And right now we still have the numbers to lose one or two without it being a huge knock. Later in the game we might not. I think this, such as most other one-shot abilities is better utilised late game.

[Meanas]

Serc, on Jan 20 2009, 08:06 PM, said:

Meanas, on Jan 20 2009, 03:21 PM, said:

Ok I am all caught up. Nice case on Serc Liosan. Saved me the trouble. I agree that several of his posts stand out as questionable behavior. Some of his posts you could toss up to game mechanics. But when you look at everything at once especially his redirection from killers to necro it seems like he is a killer trying to take out his main competition.

Vote Serc

I know, I know, OMGUS, but I'm looking at my train because I know there's scum on it. Now, one thing about this. As I mentioned above, we've had killers so many times its pointless to talk about them. The Cult are essentially Killers with optional Cult power, making them more dangerous than normal Killers, and I stand by this.

He seems to have disappeared. Although its still early, his reason for voting tickled me, and I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't return by the deadline.


What train did I derail? And look, at this point I'm just going to make a fucking case for using the Witch BP so people understand where I'm coming from, FFS

You don't know were I am coming from with the train that you derailed. Come on you knocked the train off of Omtose when there were only 5 votes. I don't know why people keep crying about having 5 votes when It takes 12 votes to lynch someone. 5 votes would seem to be the minmum number that you need to be able to apply any pressure on a person. Early in the game you don't need reasons for voting for someone you are voting to get reactions from people. Yet even before Omtose could react you went ahead and defended him and moved the train off of him. Did you really think that with 26 hours remaining in the first day that there was a good chance of Omtose being lynched? That smacked of a killer panicking when he sees his partner about to get under a lot of pressure.

Now a person doesn't have to be a symp to defend someone else but when someone jumps in and posts and elaborate defense before the people who are voting can get any kind of reaction then yeah it is suspicious. As for ignoring one set of scum and focusing on another. That will just allow the killers to hide better and remove their rivals. The killers will also be able to lower the population nessasary for a lynch while maintaining their own numbers (assuming that there is a higher number of killers and their symps then of cult members) If we only focus on the cult then we could easily end up at a place were the killers (with their symps) have enough numbers to successfully block or run lynches. Of course this same thing could be said about ignoring the cult and only focusing on the killers which is why we need to look for both.

Side note this was what I was starting to write up when I saw that Liosan had already made a case.

Below is where Serc sidelined Omtoses train.

Serc, on Jan 20 2009, 02:46 AM, said:

Well, I was assuming that even a blocked blocked nk would stop em, so I had to clarify it. I personally don't like Kesso much myself, but Im not suspicious of him, nor am I suspicious of Omtose.
Rashan and Galain annoy me, truly.
With two Necros, it'd just be good luck if both were new players, I think we have to assume they are dangerous.
And yeah I think we need a BP tonight.

Serc, on Jan 20 2009, 03:03 AM, said:

I just realised he got 5 votes, which is quite a lot in the opening hours... That's too many for my liking, especially as most of them had no real reasoning behind them.

Serc, on Jan 20 2009, 03:10 AM, said:

Ruse, on Jan 19 2009, 12:27 PM, said:

Forum finally working again.
Excellent!

So its usual day one banter i see.
Although a reveal even a joke reveal surely doesnt help us inno's now does it?

Vote Omtose

For pretending to be scum, or he could be double bluffing perhaps and really is scum?
Also seems a tad bit defensive.

Liosan, on Jan 19 2009, 01:01 PM, said:

Omtose, on Jan 19 2009, 12:19 PM, said:

Liosan, on Jan 19 2009, 01:15 PM, said:

Kessobahn, on Jan 19 2009, 12:11 PM, said:

Liosan, on Jan 19 2009, 01:08 PM, said:

Kessobahn, on Jan 19 2009, 12:03 PM, said:

Omtose, on Jan 19 2009, 01:01 PM, said:

Fener, on Jan 19 2009, 12:56 PM, said:

I agree with Kess, but I'm fairly sure that Galain's vote was a joke vote, just like every other one made on the thread so far. I think its far too early to read scum into joke votes when in a 23 person game the first page yet remains incomplete. And now, I go to school. See y'all in a while.

You agree with Kesso on what exactly? That I am trying to distance? That we shouldn't lynch high-posters?
And why do you single out Galain here, when even his intro is non-sensical and he hasn't posted since?
Also, thanks for saying people shouldn't look for scum now... sounds an awful lot like someone needed to be symped for dropping a clue they should not?

@ Galain: naturally, we rock. Such a team we are, but ehm, shouldn't we be communicating off-topic?

why? We have already revealed you as the dirty killers that you are. Why don't you instead help us hunt down the cult? No secrets, that's what you said.

@Liosan, oh my, I got some green vibes from you there, didn't I just.. I might indeed think that you'll spam.. horribly in fact

Green is one of my colours, but not the colour of my skin wink.gif

plus it is day 1, spamming is no ones enemy, it is a clearly expressed will to provide entertainment and enjoyment for the masses through the intellectual use of refined stupidity in a textual nonfactual format of diluted canned ham.

Err, so galain has revealed, or was it omtose? These massive quoting blocks are hard to keep track of.

See now that's more like it. you're just adorable remove vote. I'm not to fond of keeping joke votes around too long in all honesty.

So what do you think we should do with the revealed killer pair? Lynch them right away or let them help us hunt down the cult?

Lynch one of them so we can block the other one at will smile.gif They can compete for our affection and we should vote off the one who doesnt speak in soft undulating tones of pleasurable spammation.

It was both of us, but you should not have been able to read that as we use invisible ink, unless you are in fact our third missing brother. But is it you, or is it Kesso? Hmmm, maybe we should kill one of you and let CF sort it out...

i notice that you used the word kill, and not lynch.

vote omtose

Kessobahn, on Jan 19 2009, 03:24 PM, said:

Kessobahn, on Jan 19 2009, 04:17 PM, said:

Thyrllan, on Jan 19 2009, 04:14 PM, said:

I believe that was already mentioned somewhere, no?
You restating argument middle of the road scummy person you tongue.gif

But on a more serious note yes, that is probably the strangest thing amongst the RP.
Though Rashans vote on kaschan struck me as odd aswell, just a kinda gut thing.

Omtose does seem quite nervous, it is true.. And also Fener seems.. I dunno, strange. His vote too was odd.

you know what... this tickles me enough in the wrong way I think Omtose just moved up as the strongest killer candidate.. all the joking aside that post really stood out.
Omtose

D'riss, on Jan 19 2009, 03:53 PM, said:

Finally had the chance to get up to speed and no standout suspicions yet, but just to call his bluff...

vote Omtose

Work's a bitch at the moment, hopefully back soon

Ruse at least had reasoning. The rest appeared just to vote him (bar Kesso) and left.

I see no reason to remove my vote at this time.

Edited : When I posted that last quote of Serc's it didn't look like it was from sercs posts. I went back and corrected it.

This post has been edited by Meanas: 20 January 2009 - 08:10 PM

[Kaschan]

Just catching up.

Mockra, on Jan 20 2009, 01:39 PM, said:

Kaschan, on Jan 20 2009, 03:39 AM, said:

Morning morning morning.

Serc, on Jan 20 2009, 01:53 AM, said:

Its the getting another shot at Day One that most spurs me on to ask for it. We don't get that kind of chance often. Usually we mess up on Day One and go after the completely wrong players Day Two, pretty much maximising our losses.

Serc, you've come across as really pushing for the witch to use her BP first night, hence giving us no NK. This strikes me as a bit weird, to say the least, because imo to use it tonight would be a waste - it should be used to protect a player we know has a useful role.

To say that we mess up on day one and then go for the wrong person on day two is kind of counter to your idea, because if we get no info from an NK on night one, then we are probably twice as likely to go after the wrong person on day two.

I dunno, I'm not seeing your argument very well.

Other thing I've noticed - quite a few people seem to be looking for newbies. I think this is counterproductive, it doesn't matter where someone comes from or how many games they've played.

for the underligned part: Witch's BP protects all players when used

Yeah, my point was the witch should use the BP when an important role has been exposed (e.g. reveal) and would become a target for NK.

[Serc]

The Omtose train had been long dead by that time, though. IIRC, there were only about four of us online at that point, and I have yet to see anything hugely suspicious bout Omtose, bar the obviously fake joke reveal, and also the fact that he got annoyed when votes started stacking up on him.
In fact, I can see exactly where he is coming from, with that.
But fair enough, as long as you have reasoning to back it up, and there was solid thinking behind that post, I don't mind if there's a vote laid on me.

[Anomandaris]

Serc, on Jan 20 2009, 07:41 PM, said:

As for my persistant efforts to magnify the necro threat, Ano, I can't remember them being persistent. If anything, I can remember mentioning it maybe twice, and the simple fact is, they are more of a threat in my eyes. They are killers who can swap their kill power to get another symp. I'd rather just normal killers, cus at least when one of them is gone, we don't have to worry about them being replaced.

Well here are the posts that come to mind:

Serc, on Jan 20 2009, 12:52 AM, said:

Ah okay, cule You know, I think it would probably be in everyone's best interest to take out the Cult, they seem the biggest danger atm. I know I'd rather have one nk, then one kill and recruit...

Here's where you bring it up first - you are the first person to talk about the different factions, which by itself wouldn't be especially suspicious. However, it's that you keep going back to it that is, so when you were the one that instigated the discussion as well it seems more like a deliberate ploy.

Serc, on Jan 20 2009, 01:02 AM, said:

Anomandaris, I want you to think about the roles for a second. They can have at least one guaranteed recruit a night.

Here you seem to be trying to pass off that there is perfect communication between the killer and their creature, even though the rules quite obviously state that this is not the case. Codes have to be designed to be hard to spot, so using them to communicate is very unreliable.

So by themselves, I wouldn't have made too much of a meal of it, but then when you were making your defence:

Serc, on Jan 20 2009, 06:26 PM, said:

Liosan, on Jan 20 2009, 12:41 PM, said:

Serc, on Jan 20 2009, 01:02 AM, said:

Anomandaris, I want you to think about the roles for a second. They can have at least one guaranteed recruit a night.

This is just wrong, how can they have a guaranteed recruit? You are pushing attention onto the necromancers and either away from yourself, or from your master.
FFS if the Creature codes a hint and they are smart enough to pick up on it, thanks for making me post that so that they will do it.

Once again with this - the term guaranteed is in no way applicable to the situation you describe. It wouldn't take too much to admit you were wrong on that point, but instead you try and defend an indefensible position, which to me seems like you felt the need to continue to push your message even when it wasn't prudent for your own safety to do so. If you were so worried about giving the Creature ideas, why would you persist in speaking about it? You didn't have to, you could have just said that you made a mistake, have seen the error of my ways etc.

Serc, on Jan 20 2009, 07:10 PM, said:

Right- For Using the Witches BP on Night One, when I ask it- It basically gives us a free day. We're still going to have the first train to go by, but we will also have no loss of innos. Also, because its been asked for, we won't waste any vigs through it, which could be handy.
Against- Its not enough of a "numbers" risk. Tbh, the game is probably going to play out the same way either way. We have no guarantee of getting the killers or cult by Day Three, and we also have to take into account that they can also nk each other.
So, the way I see it, more of us there is, more chance of a Cult Recruit, more chance of an inno being hit with an nk, and the later the use of the BP, the more wasteful it is to the chance of a vig or nk hitting scum.

Underline is mine. This is another untruth - the chances of a cult recruit reduce as the number of people reduces. It makes the Necros sound more scary than they need to be.



So, there are at least 3 cases of it occuring, and when you add the fact that you were the first one to bring it up in the first place, it becomes persistance in my book.

EDIT: Crosspost with plenty of people...took me a while to find the quotes and comment on them to my satisfaction.

This post has been edited by Anomandaris: 20 January 2009 - 08:09 PM

[Serc]

@Kaschan- I'm not even going to go into reveals at this point.

[Ampelas]

Kaschan, on Jan 20 2009, 10:06 PM, said:

Just catching up.

Mockra, on Jan 20 2009, 01:39 PM, said:

Kaschan, on Jan 20 2009, 03:39 AM, said:

Morning morning morning.

Serc, on Jan 20 2009, 01:53 AM, said:

Its the getting another shot at Day One that most spurs me on to ask for it. We don't get that kind of chance often. Usually we mess up on Day One and go after the completely wrong players Day Two, pretty much maximising our losses.

Serc, you've come across as really pushing for the witch to use her BP first night, hence giving us no NK. This strikes me as a bit weird, to say the least, because imo to use it tonight would be a waste - it should be used to protect a player we know has a useful role.

To say that we mess up on day one and then go for the wrong person on day two is kind of counter to your idea, because if we get no info from an NK on night one, then we are probably twice as likely to go after the wrong person on day two.

I dunno, I'm not seeing your argument very well.

Other thing I've noticed - quite a few people seem to be looking for newbies. I think this is counterproductive, it doesn't matter where someone comes from or how many games they've played.

for the underligned part: Witch's BP protects all players when used

Yeah, my point was the witch should use the BP when an important role has been exposed (e.g. reveal) and would become a target for NK.

I agree, after a reveal by a strong character (finder, chick that gives us CF etc) would most definitely be the best time to use it.

[Serc]

Ano- two of those were in the same convo as you, where you asked how they could be more dangerous. I hinted my opinions on them. I don't really think that counts as recurring, just me explaining my position.
3- I was defending against an argument based on that, not exactly recurring.
4- your opinion.

2 of those were in response to arguments made against me and wouldn't have come up were it not for those arguments being made. I hardly think saying it twice beforehand in the same conversation makes it recurring.

editted to make the numbers make sense lol

This post has been edited by Serc: 20 January 2009 - 08:15 PM

[Ampelas]

Ok people, I'm going to bed. See you all tomorrow.

[Serc]

Good night, Amp.

[Anomandaris]

Serc, on Jan 20 2009, 08:13 PM, said:

Ano- two of those were in the same convo as you, where you asked how they could be more dangerous. I hinted my opinions on them. I don't really think that counts as recurring, just me explaining my position.
2- I was defending against an argument based on that, not exactly recurring.
3- your opinion.

2 of those were in response to arguments made against me and wouldn't have come up were it not for those arguments being made. I hardly think saying it twice beforehand in the same conversation makes it recurring.

The first two were in the same conversation, it is true. But I only put the first one in because it was the first mention in the game of anything like it, and so warranted a comment - by itself, it is not especially damning, anyway. It is the later part of the conversation involving your talk of 'guaranteed recruits' that was the key point.


Certainly, you were defending yourself, but in both cases you put in digs about the Necro threat when they weren't necessary. Just because you are on the defensive does not mean that you are not trying to increase the scope of the threat. If you had just said something about how you thought the Necros were more dangerous because there was the possibility that they could recruit, I wouldn't have quoted them. But you didn't - you tried to imply that the probability of them doing so was higher than it actually is.

[Path-Shaper]

It is day 1, 3 hours left in the day

23 players still playing, 12 votes to lynch, 12 votes for night


1 Vote Galain (Fener)
1 Vote Emurlahn (Kessobahn)
1 Vote Thyrllan (Mockra)
3 votes Mockra (Omtose, Shadow, Thyrllan)
8 Votes Serc (Liosan, Kaschan, D'riss, Meanas, Ruse, Rashan, Anomandaris, Korlat)


9 have not voted: Ampelas, Emurlahn, Galain, Galayn Lord, Gamelon, Hood's Path, Serc, Silanah, Tennes.


Note: I have to go, and Gavin promised to advance his alarm and be there soon, and before day time out. Still, you will be modless for around 2 hours, so if the number of votes reach a lynch, consider it night and send your night actions.

Note also that night is only 12 hours, so players with night actions are strongly encouraged to send conditionals if they have to leave.

[Anomandaris]

Right, I'm off for a little while, I'll be back in an hour or so.

[Thyrllan]

I think some of the serc case is stupid, if im honest.

Scaremongering with the cult? Wtf? What, so he's saying that its more important for us to look for cult, rather than killers, and thats somehow terrible.
Sorry, but cult is the bigger threat.

Cult can kill, and recruit.
Killers can kill.

Obviously cult is more dangerous. They grow. I mean, its a pretty innocent thing to do to try and find the cult, no?
What would scum gain by telling the innos to look for cult?
Its not as if everyoe was going:

Serc is blatantly a killer. 100%. And he was saying, look for cult instead, its more important.

Its day one. We're not going to be able to distinguish between cult and killer. They're both scum. So he's not defending anyone or anything.

He just said he thought finding cult more important. Which tbh, I see where he's coming from.

I just don't particulraly like the case, thinking on it.

The witch thing is the only suspect bit, pretty much.

[Kaschan]

Serc, on Jan 20 2009, 07:41 PM, said:

As for my persistant efforts to magnify the necro threat, Ano, I can't remember them being persistent. If anything, I can remember mentioning it maybe twice, and the simple fact is, they are more of a threat in my eyes. They are killers who can swap their kill power to get another symp. I'd rather just normal killers, cus at least when one of them is gone, we don't have to worry about them being replaced.

Serc, as far as I was aware, the necros were a cult with possibly a vig. How are they killers who can swap their kill for a symp?

Gonna go read the rules again. For the fifth time

[Kaschan]

Ok, just checked. The creature is not a one-shot, which I had assumed at first glance. This does make the necros dangerous, but they don't know who their creature is, so they have to play the odds, I think.

I still think that Liosan's case is still the best lead we have at this point. But I should be around on and off for the next couple of hours, so we'll see.

[Serc]

Kaschan, on Jan 20 2009, 08:31 PM, said:

Serc, on Jan 20 2009, 07:41 PM, said:

As for my persistant efforts to magnify the necro threat, Ano, I can't remember them being persistent. If anything, I can remember mentioning it maybe twice, and the simple fact is, they are more of a threat in my eyes. They are killers who can swap their kill power to get another symp. I'd rather just normal killers, cus at least when one of them is gone, we don't have to worry about them being replaced.

Serc, as far as I was aware, the necros were a cult with possibly a vig. How are they killers who can swap their kill for a symp?

Gonna go read the rules again. For the fifth time

Because the Creature can choose to kill anyone, but they could also hint it to their Necro masters, and thus convert the person instead of killing them.

Thyr- tbh, the case isn't really solid at all. At least Meanas seemed to have some reasoning behind it, but he's the ONLY one I can see.
I've explained my opinions on the Witch thing, if I'm voted off for it now, so be it at this point.