[Xardean]

Ever since GotM i have wondered what Kruppes Warren might be. I am about to start my re-reads but i was wondering if anyone could shed some insight on this. For awhile i was thinking Mockra, but i ruled that out, maybe a form of High Mockra? I know theres no evidence for High Mockra

Spoiler

unless you possibly count Seren Pedac's encounter with that entity in RG

but may it be possible that there is a higher aspect for all warrens accesable by humans? for Thyr there is High Thyrelln and High Liosan right? And Telas is a form of Tellan, unless im mistaken. It was mentioned by Cot that

Spoiler

in the beginning, the elder gods started out as elemental forces

. But i know that my theories have no basis, im still getting used to the forum, i just think it is highly possible, and SE might just be leaving it out for future books or the last two...?

[HoosierDaddy]

Xardean, on Jan 11 2009, 09:41 PM, said:

Ever since GotM i have wondered what Kruppes Warren might be. I am about to start my re-reads but i was wondering if anyone could shed some insight on this. For awhile i was thinking Mockra, but i ruled that out, maybe a form of High Mockra? I know theres no evidence for High Mockra

Spoiler

unless you possibly count Seren Pedac's encounter with that entity in RG

but may it be possible that there is a higher aspect for all warrens accesable by humans? for Thyr there is High Thyrelln and High Liosan right? And Telas is a form of Tellan, unless im mistaken. It was mentioned by Cot that

Spoiler

in the beginning, the elder gods started out as elemental forces

. But i know that my theories have no basis, im still getting used to the forum, i just think it is highly possible, and SE might just be leaving it out for future books or the last two...?

No need for spoilers in this forum, other than RotCG spoilers, anyways.

Silchas Ruin states that there was no such thing as "Mockra" during elder times, and those are the elder magics we've seen non-humans employ. So, no "elder" Mockra... simply those who are more or less adept with it. I would have to agree with you that Kruppe is probably extremely adept in the art of Mockra, seeing as how he communicates so well with K'rul in his dreams, however, he is also probably extremely adept in other magicks. His thieving ability that is exhibitioned in TtH would point to his being adept at Meanas as well as his standing down of Brood which warren I cannot begin to identify.

[Xardean]

Thanks for the advice on the spoilers thing, i won't make that mistake again.



Hmmm thanks for the words from SR's too. So no High or elder mockra then, i do wonder what that entity was then. I would think a dragon aspected to it, like has been mentioned in other books. But i got a hunch its not a dragon, however i can totally be wrong.



Onto another thing, Kruppe exhibits as you can probably agree, the ability to use many Warrens, and now that i think about it none of which could possibly be elder, because of his incedent with Lorn and her sword. But he does use many warrens, something that is very uncommon and only seen in some of the most powerful mages? is it a venture to say that? hmm. I still wonder tho if all the warrens did come from other older more powerful manifestations. Probably not due to SR's words, but it just makes sense to me that they would. How about you?

[Lisheo]

Ah, but did he fake the effects of Lorn's Otataral to avoid notice? That is the question.

[Xardean]

I did want to say that, but id also be talking to myself if I did

But, 

Spoiler

it has now been seen that humans can access the elder warrens too now, because of Topper and Heuk in RotCG, right?

Maybe Kruppe exhibits or has the same capabilities? I think theres alot more to this little... er short but robust man that some people may think.

[Lisheo]

Aye indeed. And if you want, I can move this thread into the DoD forum, where we can discuss with no need for spoilers.

[Xardean]

I already like you Moderators. please do.

[Lisheo]

Not a problem, glad to help. With regard to Topper, he is half( or a quarter)-Andii, and so is a special case, whereas Heuk is a priest, not quite a mage, and so is channeling his God's warren, not his own. But we have seen QB use Kurald Galain, and Beak use Tellan, so it IS possible for humans to use the Elder Warrens.

[Xardean]

Topper is?! man i sure have missed alot. I should really get on those re-reads. And with Heuk, i think there is more to be said on him than just being a priest, hes weird... When did QB use Kurald Galain?
Its really started to annoy me that SE stoped putting his index's at the ends of his books, i really looked to those for clarification on updates on the universe. TtH lacked one.
so humans can use Elder. I wonder what bounderies exist that they would have to overcome to use them. I wonder if Tays can use Tellan. hmmm.
Do you think there are more Warrens than have been let on? I mean don't get me started on the Holds, thats a whole seemingly new (cough cough, very old) form of "magic" so could there be others SE just isn't telling us about?

[Lisheo]

Its mentioned in GotM, when Paran meets him:) Heuk is weird, but I think he's just the human priest of the Lord of Night.
QB uses Kurald Galain in GotM, and possibly somewhere else.
I must agree, those indexes were handy. It seems like only a few of the most talented mages can use Elder, but from Tays's accomplishments, It would suggest he is no normal mage
There is an Elder Warren for almost every human warren, and of course, we have all the seperate fragments of Shadow, and the demon Warrens.
So it IS possible there are one or two more, not forgetting the blendings, ie Hood and Chaos= necromancy. But I suspect there aren't any more warrens.

[Xardean]

Well that explains my forgetfulness of it, i read that book eons ago... eons i tell you!
maybe we should write SE an angry letter about the index's... im not up to it though just putting the idea out there.
Yeah i just think Tay is too good for Telas. who knows...
There is an elder warren for almost every human warren? well thats nice to know. are they all named?
Yes your probably right.
I wonder if SE ever will tell us to an extent all the powers in which Kruppe has under his command. He jkust needs to get into a real fight. Not his scuffle with pust, i think there was no magic unleashed there because they both knew of how formidible the other was, no matter how ridiculous they are. Or they just didn't want to attract attention during a convergence, which could be bad.

[Lisheo]

We only know of Daeneth Rusen so far, and Tellan for Telas, and the Kuralds, the rest we don't know, yet.

[D'rek]

There is no answer to this because SE said in an interview that Kruppe is a mystery even unto SE himself. At least for now, that is.

Of course, it's important to realize that any formidable mage tends to have some abilities with a couple warrens besides their primary one. Insofar as Bottle uses warren magic he tends to use Mockra and Meanas, but he's also used a bit of Thyr and maybe some Denul for simple stuff on occassion. Likewise, Tayschrenn may have High Telas, but he's also a capable user of Thyr, Denul, D'riss and maybe more. So whatever Kruppe does to achieve his dreamwalking, his knowledge of events far away, his defiance of Brood (unless that was from K'rul), may be a completely different source of efficacy then his little apple-stealing in the market.

As for the Otataral, tBH shows Otataral working on a goddess herself - Poliel - so in addition to the mortal warrens you can also add in any of the human priesthoods, such as D'rek, QoD, Poliel, Soliel, etc etc. Unless he was faking it of course...

[Xardean]

Exactly! thats one of the things i wanted to move on, the ones we don't know!
was it clear that the Eres used warrens at all? they would probably use holds tho if they did. but they are probably more like the T'lan Imass in the sense of bonecasters using magic and everyone else not.

[Sinisdar Toste]

isnt tays high thyr, not telas? his attacks are of light not fire as described in smokys attacks... im pretty sure thats the case, anyways i'll stop being a pedantic bear now

[Xardean]

In response to Sinisdar Toste
In that case hes too good for Thyr, if Silk can use a Kurald so can Tay.
Im probably wrong, ill have to fish out my books, but i thought during MoI Tay was described as using Telas. But maybe not, i could just be dreaming crazy stories. Like Kruppe!

[D'rek]

Xardean, on Jan 11 2009, 11:44 PM, said:

In response to Sinisdar Toste
In that case hes too good for Thyr, if Silk can use a Kurald so can Tay.
Im probably wrong, ill have to fish out my books, but i thought during MoI Tay was described as using Telas. But maybe not, i could just be dreaming crazy stories. Like Kruppe!

He was. He is extremely adept with both Telas and Thyr. His healing talents must also be fairly good because they say something like he would be the only one in Darujhistan to heal _____, thus he's better then your average squad/company healer.

[Ain't_It_Just_]

I'm betting that Kruppe's warren, assuming he has one, will be some form of Mockra because he used it in GotM to dance his way through a packed crowd, and steal lots of sweets.

He stole my idea.

[Benji]

He's also used Meanas to fashion illusions. The biggest use of Mockra that I saw was when he temporarily altered Murillio's thoughts in GotM

[The Drum]

Being the eel of Daru, I reakon that Kruppe will turn out to be the God of eel's, he's slippery thats for sure