[Battalion]

Just finished the book and I thought it was great.
The battle at the end was awsome.

Im not sure if this has been mentioned before, but does anyone think there could be a possibility of Lassen Ascending? She was obviously a very powerful killer, much like Dancer, and I was wondering whether she could be set for a reunion with her old masters in Shadow. Maybe even that the whole entire thing has been part of Shadowthrone's master plan.

I'm sure there have been cases in the passed of people ascending after being killed? Maybe she could too.

Also, who was the assassin that killed her? Was it the woman who worked for Mallick?

Also, I love Skinner ... what a guy.

Didn't so much love that Iron Bars walked around that ship with the Seguleh like he was a frightened rabbit, scared to look up ... He's Avowed! Act Avowed! SE's version of Iorn Bars would of fought the lot of them.

[The Drum]

haven't much time at the moment, but look for a thread on Possums' three ladies for who the assassin was. I'll get back later on my thoughts on the other points,.

[HoosierDaddy]

Yes, Mallick's agent killed Laseen.

'Bout Bars: He isn't stupid. The Seguleh scared all the Genebackan's siilly. You don't simply ignore that kind of thing. Anyways, he would have gotten slaughtered had he attempted to kill them all, along with his men. He did the smart thing and challenged one to make sure they kept their supplies.

About Laseen's possible ascension... Possible, but not likely. It isn't easy to ascend like that. Kel & Dancer knew there were spots open to go to because they had been exploring the Azath Houses for so long and had an idea of what the connection was between the deck and the houses. I don't think Lassen had that sort of knowledge.

[Dancer+]

There is a possibility that Laseen will ascend, a semi-reasonably realistic one too (providing someone takes an interest in her). I hope that Erikson and Cam will leave Laseen be however.

Erikson's version of Iron Bars in that case would have got killed by the Seguleh. There's no two ways about it. I think he reacted accordingly, it was a bit surprising that he was hurt by the Seguleh to that extent but I think that was to show the power of the Seguleh rather than anything else.

[Benji]

My personal hope?

Laseen becomes Queen of High House Shadow.

Think of the dialogue... That would be awesome.

[Trotts]

Laseen in HH Shadow? Would be a lot more drownings...

[The Drum]

I honestly felt sorry for Laseen, she was left alone for some time to look after Kelleveds' empire while he and Dancer 'disappeared' for a considerable time. So she decides to take over the throne only for K and D to turn up and force her to fight for it. She wins that fight, but is forever seen as an usurper of the empire even though K and D didn't really want it anyway. Then she starts to find rebellion at every corner, 7 cities etc and eventually shes forced to fight against many of her old comrades who think she killed K and D!!
Ialso can't understand why she trusted Mallick Rell and Kobolo Dom, surely she could see that Mallick was a snake and Korbolo an idiot. If so then why allow them the power thry had? Unless it was part of a larger plan?

Anyway, i think that someone as smart as Laseen would definately have a contingency plan, so i think that she's either faked her death somehow or that she herself has figured out how to ascend. I also thought that Laseen would be a prime candidate for Queen of High House Shadow!!!

On the Iron Bars Vs the Seguleh, I'm sure IB was stil not over his ordeal and was still a bit weak or at least not up to a proper fight. The reaction of the sailor and his injuries probably forced him to hold off from starting a fight and he was suprised by the speed of the Seguleh when he fought her.

On Skinner, i'm holding off judgement on him for a bit yet, haven't finished TtH which i hear he appears in, as yet we haven't read much on him in RotCG, he seemed a bit of a robot to me, I need to read more about his views etc.

[T'renn]

Only for the sweet Mayhem (yes with a capital letter) the combo would give, and think of the dialogues. Maybe shadowthrone is gathering a family again. I mean he now has an army of shadows, Kalam (though its not known in which condition) he could pull QB in, he has Cutter and Dassembrea (not officially) and cottilon of course.

[Benji]

Imperial High Mage Tayschrenn, on Dec 31 2008, 08:24 AM, said:

Only for the sweet Mayhem (yes with a capital letter) the combo would give, and think of the dialogues. Maybe shadowthrone is gathering a family again. I mean he now has an army of shadows, Kalam (though its not known in which condition) he could pull QB in, he has Cutter and Dassembrea (not officially) and cottilon of course.

Ok. THIS is my new hope.

A new 'family' based in Shadow would be awesome.

[T'renn]

Awesome, ja ? The game has moved up to a new level, from empire into arcane

[Battalion]

Shadowthrone has some influence over the Azath houses, to a certain extent, so maybe Cowl could be drawn in as one of his assassins too.

[williamjm]

The Drum, on Dec 30 2008, 10:13 PM, said:

I also can't understand why she trusted Mallick Rell and Kobolo Dom, surely she could see that Mallick was a snake and Korbolo an idiot. If so then why allow them the power thry had? Unless it was part of a larger plan?

I don't think she trusts Mallick. I think there are two possibilities, either she had some larger plan or Mallick managed to establish a large enough powerbase in the Claw before she could stop him that she didn't want to risk openly opposing him. Perhaps Mallick would have been very difficult to kill while he was still able to compel Mael's help.

[muco]

I was actually rooting for Laseen. She was one of the better Malazan characters. Right until the end she out-played every one and then gets killed in a wimpy way.

Tragic...

[Ain't_It_Just_]

Funny...post BH we were all speculating on whether Laseen was losing control or everything was going as she planned. Seems irrelevant now... I did not, however, feel sorry for her. She seemed very resolute, even at the end. But I did pity her when she found out all these people were still alive. Like Braven Tooth.

Where did Iron bars pick up those extra Crimson Guardsman? He only had five at the end of MT.

[Blend]

The Drum, on Dec 30 2008, 10:13 PM, said:

Ialso can't understand why she trusted Mallick Rell and Kobolo Dom, surely she could see that Mallick was a snake and Korbolo an idiot. If so then why allow them the power thry had? Unless it was part of a larger plan?

She doesn't trust them. It's stated fairly clearly in The Bonehunters when Tavore and T'Amber visit her that she was forced to put Mallick and Korbolo where they are. Basically, Mallick used the nobility that hated Coltaine and a slew of lies and rumours to solidify the people's anti-Wickan beliefs, and these helped to put pressure on Laseen. She may have, and probably did, know that Mallick and Korbolo were the responsible for Coltaine's death, but when the constituents of her Empire are all screaming to make Korbolo first sword, and to give Mallick power, and to kill the Wickans, her hands are pretty much tied. I think she was hoping that Tavore and T'Amber would kill them during their visit.

[amphibian]

Blend, on Jan 19 2009, 12:17 PM, said:

The Drum, on Dec 30 2008, 10:13 PM, said:

Ialso can't understand why she trusted Mallick Rell and Kobolo Dom, surely she could see that Mallick was a snake and Korbolo an idiot. If so then why allow them the power thry had? Unless it was part of a larger plan?

She doesn't trust them. It's stated fairly clearly in The Bonehunters when Tavore and T'Amber visit her that she was forced to put Mallick and Korbolo where they are. Basically, Mallick used the nobility that hated Coltaine and a slew of lies and rumours to solidify the people's anti-Wickan beliefs, and these helped to put pressure on Laseen. She may have, and probably did, know that Mallick and Korbolo were the responsible for Coltaine's death, but when the constituents of her Empire are all screaming to make Korbolo first sword, and to give Mallick power, and to kill the Wickans, her hands are pretty much tied. I think she was hoping that Tavore and T'Amber would kill them during their visit.

You're forgetting the Jhistal ritual that gave Mallick the ability to compel Mael - which made him insanely powerful. Mallick was also one of the few who was willing to make an appearance of deference to her - remember that almost all of the Old Guard abandoned Laseen. Tayschrenn turned into a hermit, Dassem fell, she did not sit on the First Throne of the T'lan Imass and Coltaine died. Only Nok stayed with her and she did the right thing by the Bonehunters and others by ordering him to rule the seas and manage the logistics for them.

Korbolo Dom also had the only army worth mentioning anywhere near the Malazan Empire itself.

Other than an iffy command of the Claw, she had zero powerbase. She did a pretty dang good job with what she had and I was sad to see her die.

[foolio]

Quote

Korbolo Dom also had the only army worth mentioning anywhere near the Malazan Empire itself.

Korbolo Doms army was annihilated by the time he was put in a sack by Kalam and shipped back to Laseen...

Quote

, Dassem fell,

Dasseem fell because Surly ordered him eliminated because she wanted power fo r herself. I think this is the most damning thing she was responsible for.

probably gonna get flamed but
I think that Korbolo Dom and Mallick Rell being put in power was just sloppy writing by erikson. It seemed to be a device to piss the reader off and keep a hated villain on stage. I dont think there is a legitimate reason to keep these two traitors around, especially now after ROTCG when we see that she was not in as precarious possition as people speculated after the Bonehunters.. I, for one, was thrilled that she got killed at the end of this... As a matter of fact, her getting killed made alot of the things in this book bearable for me. I also was glad that Mallick was in league with her Killer. Finally some justice, invite a snake in bed with you and dont be surprised when the snake bites you. I had a Major problem with the logic in her keeping them around after BH and an even bigger problem with it after ROTGC. Probably just me though.

[Urizen]

foolio, on Jan 19 2009, 09:40 PM, said:

Dasseem fell because Surly ordered him eliminated because she wanted power fo r herself. I think this is the most damning thing she was responsible for.

Kahlam dropped in my book when he fell for Laseen's BS at the end of DG. The whole "I did it for the empire's sake" stank of selfjustification. If the good of the empire was all she cared about she should have clonked Daseem on the head and sat his ass down on the Imperial Throne

foolio, on Jan 19 2009, 09:40 PM, said:

probably gonna get flamed but
I think that Korbolo Dom and Mallick Rell being put in power was just sloppy writing by erikson. It seemed to be a device to piss the reader off and keep a hated villain on stage. I dont think there is a legitimate reason to keep these two traitors around, especially now after ROTCG when we see that she was not in as precarious possition as people speculated after the Bonehunters.. I, for one, was thrilled that she got killed at the end of this... As a matter of fact, her getting killed made alot of the things in this book bearable for me. I also was glad that Mallick was in league with her Killer. Finally some justice, invite a snake in bed with you and dont be surprised when the snake bites you. I had a Major problem with the logic in her keeping them around after BH and an even bigger problem with it after ROTGC. Probably just me though.

Hear, hear! I couldn't agree more. She got what she deserved. Too bad though that Mallick ended up in charge... If only Mael had ganked him when he had the chance.

[Benji]

Blend, on Jan 19 2009, 05:17 PM, said:

The Drum, on Dec 30 2008, 10:13 PM, said:

Ialso can't understand why she trusted Mallick Rell and Kobolo Dom, surely she could see that Mallick was a snake and Korbolo an idiot. If so then why allow them the power thry had? Unless it was part of a larger plan?

She doesn't trust them. It's stated fairly clearly in The Bonehunters when Tavore and T'Amber visit her that she was forced to put Mallick and Korbolo where they are. Basically, Mallick used the nobility that hated Coltaine and a slew of lies and rumours to solidify the people's anti-Wickan beliefs, and these helped to put pressure on Laseen. She may have, and probably did, know that Mallick and Korbolo were the responsible for Coltaine's death, but when the constituents of her Empire are all screaming to make Korbolo first sword, and to give Mallick power, and to kill the Wickans, her hands are pretty much tied. I think she was hoping that Tavore and T'Amber would kill them during their visit.

I agree with Blend on this one. Laseen was caught between a rock and a hard place. She had to choose between what the people wanted and what the people needed. In the end, she placed her gamble on people like Tavore, Kalam and Pearl being able to see what she was doing. Tavore didn't rise to the bait, probably not noticing all the subtlety. Kalam saw it very clearly, as he stated after the meeting, but decided to stay with Tavore and T'Amber instead. Pearl was planning on killing Mallick and Korbolo himself, but was stopped rather abruptly by Kalam, Apsalar and his personal priorities.

Laseen took a gamble and she lost. Sadly for her it was that gamble which made everything come undone.

[Sinisdar Toste]

yeah if only pearl didn have such a dumbass personal vendetta against kalam... its not like kalam even cared about him..