[Sinisdar Toste]

i wish we had actually met orfantal, i mean the dude got a sex change to be a dude, pretty interesting character i'd say

[Hoods_Balls]

I dont think that Dassem knew hood was in Dragnipur either, i think the reason that he was so upset was that he Dragnipur'd Rake on accident.
Dassem had no beef with Rake, also had no qualms about killing him...but dooming a man he respects to an eternity of wagon patrol is another story. Thats why after the fight he looks at Samar and says "not my fault".
Also at the end of the book ST and Cot. are talking and Cotlilion says that he tried to explain to Traveller what happened/why it had to happen in order to appease his guilt, but traveller was not interested in listening.

[Darts]

I don't think Dassem knew that Hood was in Dragnipur. Noone else seemed to know, so why would he? Also it's that part about him asking Rake where Hood is.
I think Dassem got played by Hood, ST, Cotillion and the lot. Cot spoke to Dassem a short while earlier and what he said seemed to bother Dassem alot, we don't know what was said... But when Dassem meets Rake the dialogue goes something like this:
Dassem: Cot said you would stand in my way!
Rake: Yes!
Dassem: I have no quarrel with you, please step aside.
Rake: I cannot.
the ref: Let's get it on!!

I believe Cotillion told Dassem that Rake would be a problem in his quest for vengeance so that he wouldn't hesitate fighting him. The reason that Dassem is sad is prolly that he got Dragnipured...

Oh the reason I believe that Hood and the others are plotting together is the part when Hood and a few others meet in that ghost town in the prologue...

This post has been edited by Darts: 05 January 2009 - 01:41 AM

[Illuyankas]

Dassem knew very well that Hood was in Dragnipur, considering that his headless corpse was kneeling in front of Rake.

[Darts]

Was it really in front of him? I got the picture he was behind Rake... That might be all in my head tho... You're right tho, the question is would Dassem even consider looking at a body lying beside Rake at that moment? Even if he did would he recognize him as Hood? And why would he even ask where he was if he saw the body before Rake?

[Illuyankas]

Facing him. Rake was kneeling and resting on Dragnipur, and Hood's corpse was kneeling directly in front of and facing him. And I'm pretty sure Dassem's going to recognise Hood, with his head on or not. How many other undead Jaghut are there likely to be wandering around Darujistan?

[Darts]

So why ask Rake where he was? Unless he didn't know what happened if you got cut by Dragnipur, in which case fighting Rake would be pointless since he already knew Hood was killed, He wouldn't have asked.

This post has been edited by Darts: 05 January 2009 - 03:21 AM

[Illuyankas]

There was a very small chance his soul was somewhere else. If there was a chance that you wouldn't be forced to fight one of the strongest and most honourable ascendants in the world, when you really don't want to but may not have a choice, then wouldn't you take it?

[Darts]

I guess you might be right..
But if you are; you say that Dassem saw Hood's body and figured:
1 Rake killed him (in which case there would be no fight)
2 Someone else killed him and Rake knew where his soul would be and that Dassem would find out by sticking Rake on his sword.
3 Rake killed him and Dassem understood that Hood was stuck in Dragnipur. (In which case they would go all out trying to get killed by Dragnipur, which in Dassem's case would be a whole lot easier...)

I guess you will say yes it's alternative 3, but it seems sooo akward to me... I mean Dassem could have "slipped up" and cut his arm on the sword or something... Rake on the otherhand needed a really hard strike from Dassem to get Dragnipur jammed in his forhead (or wherever it was).

[Illuyankas]

I'd simplify that to:

1. Rake (or someone else) killed him without Dragnipur, and Hood's soul went back to his home realm, or
2. Rake killed him with Dragnipur.

Also, all Rake needed from Dassem was enough force on a blow to prevent him from pulling it, while Rake simply had to reduce the strength of his block. I speak from experience when I say how easy it is to be hit by your own sword when you don't block correctly.

[Darts]

ok but in case of 1: There would be no need of a fight, as you said why would you want to fight one of the most powerful ascendants around..

2 I realise(spelling?? sorry) that it would be easy for Rake to be cut by Dragnipur during a fight, but the problem with the argument is that Dassem wouldn't want to hurt Rake at all if he knew Hood was in Dragnipur and wouldn't put full force in his blows. And Rake would try to put on a show of trying to kill Dassem while he was waiting for an opening to get cut... Which makes for a really strange duell...

[D'rek]

Assuming Dassem knew Rake had Dragnipured Hood, there's the additional possibilities:

A) Dassem was so mad at these turn of events he didn't think logically and just wanted to kick Rake's ass.
B ) Dassem figured he would kill Rake and take Dragnipur, and then having Dragn he could do some funky thing to Hood who's still inside.

This post has been edited by D'rek: 05 January 2009 - 04:15 AM

[Darts]

well..
A ) Why would he ask Rake to stand aside ( i think that how he said it... but i might be wrong) and then be sad about killing him?
B ) Not impossible I guess. (Although Dassem don't seem to be the really evil kind of avenger...)

edit: damn smiley!

This post has been edited by Darts: 05 January 2009 - 04:23 AM

[Andirak]

By his own admission, Dassem is not sure of Hood's whereabouts. And he asks Rake to step aside. Given the option, it looks as if Dassem would not have fought Rake. Strangely Samar Dev mentions nothing about a headless body next to Rake, a detail which would hardly go unnoticed. Perhaps Dassem had a suspicion, it's hard to know, but he didn't fight as someone intent on getting himself killed. He wanted to kill Rake, because the latter stood in his path. How, it's unclear.
It's not like the road was too small.

Perhaps one of the Badassmanship Rules is Thou shalt clear thy path of all obstacles.

[Aptorian]

I call horseshit on Hoods body still being there.

The entire scene never made sense to me but just becomes downright stupid if Hoods body was lying right there in the square for Dassem to see.

Dassem is crazy that's true but he's not more stupid than being able to put two and two together. He sensed Hoods presence, and thought he was nearby, if he had realised Hood was down then his question would have been something like "Is he in there?". What are you thinking? That Dassem thought Rake was hiding his soul in his pocket?

And I will again state the stupidity in that Rake supposedly "chose Dassem to guard the sword after his death" because, as driven as Dassem was, he would have thrown himself on that sword to get to Hood if he knew he was chained inside and couldn't run away any longer. It would also have been a much cooler ending thank you very much.

[Andirak]

I fully agree, Apt.

[muco]

Dassem didn't know Hood was inside the sword..that much is clear from the talk he has with Rake.

As to why it had to be Dassem, Would be interesting to theorize on that.

Consider this..as badasss as Dassem is, Hood can not be killed by him. Jaghut with the kind of power Hood has just can not be destroyed. In that sense Hood did not do what he did out of fear of Dassem.

Was Dassem and Karsa meeting a coincidence? Considering Hood needed Karsa..I doubt it. And he was one of the main people defending the sword and not Dassem. Think Shadowthrone set Dassem in Karsa's path. And what abt the little talk they have with Karsa.

Will Dassem serve some purpose from now?? You bet he would, although not sure which purpose.

[Ain't_It_Just_]

I've got a feeling that our friend Dassemllerbrae will return to Darujhistan. The city seethes with portents 'n' power.

[Mcflury]

@ Illu, completely off-topic though: where do you fight swords? I mean, I know (or knew) people who used to fence and stuff, but I've never heard of anyone who actually fights with swords the way they must have done in duels in older days... so where do you do this, does it have a specific name of sport?
Or am I completely misunderstanding this and do you in fact not fight with swords on a regular base, but you have done it at least once in the past?

[Abyss]

 Andirak, on Dec 20 2008, 07:15 PM, said:

 Grief, on Dec 20 2008, 03:10 PM, said:

There was speculation around that dragnipur actively tries to stop you dying, such as with Rake killing Apsal'ara.

Why is this interpreted that way? IMNSHO it didn't seem as if Dragnipur reacted by itself. Rake had not intended to kill her, but the moment she tried, well, it was within his rights to return the favor. And he did....

Because in Apsalara's flashback Rake seemed upset about it.

 Andirak, on Dec 23 2008, 08:03 PM, said:

 foolio, on Dec 23 2008, 11:32 AM, said:

Quote

After all, a few hundred millennia of experience gotta come with perks.

unless your name is Orfantal

You have a point there.

A very good point, actually, but in Orfie's defence, he was feeling Rake's death and was a wee bit distracted, which, when it comes to Kallor, is a fatal mistake.

 Illuyankas, on Jan 4 2009, 09:28 PM, said:

Dassem knew very well that Hood was in Dragnipur, considering that his headless corpse was kneeling in front of Rake.

Yep. And Das was probably a wee bit freaked out by that, which opened to door to Rake manipulating him into what happened next.

- Abyss, manipulator.