[flea]

I seem to remember some evidence of Rake not wanting to kill so much--in MOI, I believe he lets Whiskeyjack kill the cannibal women, when he could and should have.

[Seguleh 1st]

whiskeyjack just kills them, because he thinks that they have not deserved dragnipur, but he does not realize that rake only wanted to kill them so whiskeyjack wouldnt have to. Rake said Mercy and meant mercy against WJ, but WJ took it wrong and thought rake meant drag to be a mercy

[Mcflury]

flea, on Jan 11 2009, 08:28 PM, said:

I seem to remember some evidence of Rake not wanting to kill so much--in MOI, I believe he lets Whiskeyjack kill the cannibal women, when he could and should have.

Not really how it went. It went more like this:

Rake wanted to kill them. They were unarmed and shit, and thus it would have been an unhonourable slaughter, but Rake is used to taking this shit and would do it because it had to happen. WJ, becoming Rake's friend, really liking him, thought "hell no, you don't have to go through this. I'll do it for you, hell, how bad can it be?". So WJ rides up to the women, kills one, but then notes how dishonourable it is, hesitates. Rake notices his friend is having a hard time (even though WJ would've continued the slaying) and rides up to WJ and slays the women for him, taking that hard load off of WJ's shoulders (where they shouldn't have been in the first place).

So Rake helped WJ in there, even though WJ actually only killed the women because he wanted to help Rake. Or something like that anyways, long time since I read that book :s

EDIT: ah, Seguleh 1st beat me to an answer and was more correct too. Well done, Seguleh

This post has been edited by Mcflury: 11 January 2009 - 07:34 PM

[flea]

Thanks for the correction.

[Aptorian]

Good lord there's a lot of miss interpretation in here.

Rake is not the nice guy you people seem to think he is. He is draconean soletaken. He would kill all the men, women and children in darujistan with dragnipur if he though that would solve the problem. But it doesn't. That's why he stopped killing, not some sudden qualm with the taking of a life.

Rake was going to put the women of the dead seed in the sword because they were strong and had magic. He let WJ kill them because WJ asked him not to kill them with the sword. WJ killed them all, leaving none of them. It nearly broke him as he looked up on the arrayed masses of his own men, thinking they would condem him as a killer of unarmed women. They of course understood what WJ had done, and so did Rake.

[Seguleh 1st]

I didnt contradict that, but i wish i had reason, cause you now have to be my sworn archenemy apt.
ALL HAIL THE ABYSSMAL ARMY!

[Mcflury]

Aptorian, on Jan 11 2009, 08:46 PM, said:

Good lord there's a lot of miss interpretation in here.

Rake is not the nice guy you people seem to think he is. He is draconean soletaken. He would kill all the men, women and children in darujistan with dragnipur if he though that would solve the problem. But it doesn't. That's why he stopped killing, not some sudden qualm with the taking of a life.

Rake was going to put the women of the dead seed in the sword because they were strong and had magic. He let WJ kill them because WJ asked him not to kill them with the sword. WJ killed them all, leaving none of them. It nearly broke him as he looked up on the arrayed masses of his own men, thinking they would condem him as a killer of unarmed women. They of course understood what WJ had done, and so did Rake.

Well, as I said, a long time since I read that book, the scene was kind of foggy in my mind indeed (and yes, technically that should have stopped me from typing a responce, but I guess I just couldn't stop it).

Also I agree with you that Rake would indeed kill all abovementioned people if he thought that would solve the problem, but I don't really believe he stopped killing because he wanted to find another plan. I can only believe he stopped the killing after he found a definite plan to 'fix' Drag. So technically, two scenarios I believe in:
1) Rake got sick of the killing (after all those years of killing, becoming friends with mortals and all that stuff - and even though Rake is obviously badass, he is also a very emotional character - and seeing them all leave his life one way or another I'm sure one, even a mean badass like Rake, would get sick of it too. Or at least would start to wonder why. Damn, even Kallor, the meanest fuck ever started regretting stuff...) and that's why he searched for another way to solve his problem.
2) Rake found a way to solve his problem, but for that to work he had to stop killing first, and so he did.

But in no way I'm willing to believe Rake stopped killing because he knew that wasn't going to solve the problem and only started coming up with a plan afterwards.
Ah well, perhaps I should stop trying to figure out what Rake's thoughts and plans were... I'm not smart enough for that by far, and I believe that nobody is actually. (except perhaps SE or ICE themself, who created Rake after all)

[Andirak]

Or, since Rake's reputation probably precedes him by a few miles, he was running out of powerful beings to chain, seeing as these were smart enough not to pick an argument with him; what with the odds of ending inside Dragnipur being quite high, and so he decided something else had to be done.

[Ain't_It_Just_]

Speaking of powerful entities, I remember Draconus said Rake should kill some more dragons. As if.

Were Rake a more eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeevil person, he'd probably slaughter the human population of Black Coral and fix Dragnipur's problem.

[foolio]

Quote

Rake is a draconean soletaken who has been doing the killing with dragnipur for a hundred thousand years... give or take a hundred thousand years. Killing isn't a problem for him.

It is suggested that the reason to why Rake wanted the wagon to slow to a halt was so that the majority of the souls inside would be consumed or at least weakened. Else they risked spilling the malazan equivelant of Pandoras Box onto Burn when the sword was undone.

I am sold. I didnt really think about it that way but now that you mention it, that makes alot of sense.

[Ain't_It_Just_]

God, imagine what would have happened if his plan to move the Gates failed....he'd be like "OH SHI-"

[Coldsnap]

Easy there, Apt. Though you do accurately describe the scene from MOI, theres also no concrete reasons against the idea that Rake has a sense of compassion, an unwillingness to slaughter the masses, and a relative sense of revulsion at harming unarmed creatures. I believe you are just as capable of misinterpretation of these novels as anyone else.

[Aptorian]

Oh I am, and I agree that Rake is one of the more humane ascendants, but he is still a cold, nasty individual.

The draconean blood inside him practically ensures that he has a taste for blood, it's that unbending will of his that lets him keep it in check.

[Coldsnap]

Fair enough, Apt, and thx for the response.

[Ain't_It_Just_]

Aptorian, on Jan 16 2009, 11:27 AM, said:

Oh I am, and I agree that Rake is one of the more humane ascendants, but he is still a cold, nasty individual.

The draconean blood inside him practically ensures that he has a taste for blood, it's that unbending will of his that lets him keep it in check.

Yes...he may be benign, but you can't live 300,000 years without getting a little mass-murderer-esque.

I was reading GotM, and when he said he put the two Pale wizards into Dragnipur (to Baruk's horror) he laughed and said, "There's too much mercy in your heart, Alchemist." Scaaaaaaaaaaaaary stuff....

[Seguleh 1st]

well how said darwin? survival of the fittest? without mercy you live for 300000+ years, with mercy in your heart you get slain by one who has none.

[Hawah]

SonOfDarkness, on Dec 19 2008, 07:41 PM, said:

Dassem went all depressed and sad after the rake fight, a little kid could have come behind him while crying and stabbed him to death ( not really but u get the point).

What was he sad about?

Lets look at it logically: He came to get hood through Dragnipur, he asked rake nicely, rake said no " lets get it on" and so they got it on, Dassem was trying his best to kill Rake. Rake however had the perfect plan to manipulate Dassems moves inorder for Dassem to kill Rake with Dragnipure ( this part is free for intepretation).

So Dassem has respect for rake, as does Rake. Rake dies from Dassems hand, Dassem knows Rake did it on purposem he knew, Karsa was quoted as saying " he cheated " or was it the witch? anyway if they knew then Dassem surely knew.

So was Dassem sad that Rake died? Was he sad Rake gave the fight on purpose? If he just wanted to get in Dragnipur then all he had to do was get killed by Rake.

What the hell was he sad about? So sad he was going to let some hounds kill Karsa and the witch and Cuttter ( not that he knew cutter), point is he almost gave up on life around him while crying about what? What was he so sad about? Rake?



Heres a twisted thought: Was Rake trying to make sure that he Dassem DIDNt receieve ablow from Dragnipur? Like when Dassem says to rake " Stand aside so i can get to hood " Rake saying no means, " No u cannot get killed by dragnipur?"

Hence I will make sure to deflect your killing blows AND in the mean time make sure my dragnipur does nt even scathe u. If that is true then.... thats a next level of swordsman.

The story is quite simple, way back in somewhere land. You will find Dassem as Mortal sword of Hood. And he still is when betrayed by Laseen. Question beckons, where is he betrayed by Hood, why of course at the fall of his daughter/wife who still is dead lying prone on the floor of an Azath.
Since Hood does not choose and takes all, Dassem and Hood have a falling out.
Dassem starts his hunt for Hood, Rake and Hood make a deal where they plan to make Hood manifest in the Physical sence in the world. Here Rake will send Hood to Dragnipur and Draconus, since Hood wishes to see him again. And also because this is the only plan they have left to battle the Army of Chaos. Rake will follow to set Dark free, and they knew that Dassem would feel Hoods presence long before the manifestation takes place. So, Rake kills Hood, Dassem comes hunting for Hood and is willing to follow into dragnipur, but Rake needs Hood to fulfill his part inside dragnipur so he can folllow and finish his. Dassem falls into Rakes trap and kills a man who does not deserve it, for Rake and Dassem are in so many ways the same. Rake and Dassem never took a life they did not judge guilty for crimes. Rake hunted tyrants. Dassem battled Tyranny.

Or at the least that`s how I see it.

[Ain't_It_Just_]

So Rake was willing to die..how heroic. In the Malazan sense.