[Path-Shaper]

Boring thread is boring. Really fucking boring.

Day 2, weeknd freeze is in effect. Clock starts at 7GMT Monday, with 12 hours left.

15 of you are still alive (Rashan, Ruse, Kaschan, D'riss, Kessobahn, Korlat, Gamelon, Shadow, Tennes, Fener, Silanah, Mockra, Omtose, Emurlahn, Hood's Path)

8 votes to lynch or go to night

1 vote for D'riss: Shadow
2 votes for Mockra : Rashan, Kessobahn
5 votes for Omtose : Ruse, Fener, Kaschan, D'riss, Mockra
1 vote for Gamelon: Emurlahn

6 people have not voted: Gamelon, Hood's Path, Omtose, Silanah, Tennes, Korlat

[Mockra]

i will follow you here, i think korlat said it best when he said i wanted to be inno and i do.

remove vote

vote gamelon

i am not lying about my role, but i do not believe i will receive my winning conditions or i would effectively be a finder guard and the mods told me when i asked for my alignment that i wasn't this. Therefore the only way for me to know my alignment is to lynch the person i last guarded. If gamelon is RI as claimed then other RI's will confirm that they received a name and the actor which is how he claims to have used to prove his innocence. Also when i revealed i expressed confusion and doubt regarding my role but he jumped at the chance to claim roleless innocent, much more so than was necessary.

@rashan - i made my case against gamelon as a symp, so i voted for who i thought was his master. It isnt elaborate.

If gamelon is roleless innocent we will know and i will be confirmed as evil, if people are confident of this they can lynch me or have me guard another player. Tonight i will guard rashan if i am not lynched. My reasoning for doing so is because i believe he is possibly a vig (i doubt there are any roleless innos in the game with such a high tmdi) and i would prefer to survive until morning. He was also very strange in the manner of his approach to the case he made, and i prefer how emurlahn went about it.

edited - wrong word used

This post has been edited by Mockra: 06 December 2008 - 02:52 PM

[Ruse]

I'm not on for long, but I had a thought overnight. In the RD game, there was a player who had the ability to prevent people from posting for a game day. Any chance someone has done this to Omtose? Would explain the people who have alt-guessed him saying it was unusual for him not to have posted for so long...

Regarding everyone's opinions on the Mockra-Gamelon combination, I'll comment on them when I have more time.

[Kessobahn]

Ok, hung over, but I think its time to kick the game a bit. Mockra, everyone is trusting you as a wild-card. I believe you probably are slimer. But I can't just let you bump into anyone and risk you turning bad. Maybe you already have hit an inno(Gamelon) and so you turned bad and now are trying to get him lynched. Also, what I think is interesting about your role is that it doesn't say you bump into one and are good or bad for the remainder of the game, so you use it when you are evil, and bump into good guys, picking us off one at a time. For instance, you bumped into Game last night. He was inno(I assume) and you turn evil. You may even get team evils players names, but I doubt it. You get Game lynched, and tonight you bump again, you can then say, oh I hit an evil, its so and so, and we lynch them, that gives team evil 4 kills before we lynch you, giving them a significant advantage wih us down 2 GB's already. So yeah, you gots to go. Youre like slimer, cute and funny, but still a ghost.

[Emurlahn]

Kessobahn, on Dec 6 2008, 05:14 PM, said:

Ok, hung over, but I think its time to kick the game a bit. Mockra, everyone is trusting you as a wild-card. I believe you probably are slimer. But I can't just let you bump into anyone and risk you turning bad. Maybe you already have hit an inno(Gamelon) and so you turned bad and now are trying to get him lynched. Also, what I think is interesting about your role is that it doesn't say you bump into one and are good or bad for the remainder of the game, so you use it when you are evil, and bump into good guys, picking us off one at a time. For instance, you bumped into Game last night. He was inno(I assume) and you turn evil. You may even get team evils players names, but I doubt it. You get Game lynched, and tonight you bump again, you can then say, oh I hit an evil, its so and so, and we lynch them, that gives team evil 4 kills before we lynch you, giving them a significant advantage wih us down 2 GB's already. So yeah, you gots to go. Youre like slimer, cute and funny, but still a ghost.

A few comments on this, Kesso.

1) you fully believe Mockra's reveal, including the funny 'guard an inno, become scum, guard scum, become inno' clause. There's a problem with that:
a) if he becomes evil upon bumping into someone good, as you say, he should not reveal for then he is evil!
I have no clue if RIs are seen as neutral, but as far as I know, unroled inno's are still seen as a part of town in any other game, and Yellow said this wasn't a cult or merc game, so I assume RI = town = goodies, which should make the prankster evil most of the time anyway.
It's the mechanic I think he is lying about, as is Rashan's thought, but I see no comment from you on this.

2) why should we fully believe him and follow him like sheep, like your example suggests, for another night? This board is pretty dependant on finders, has always been, but we never follow them without questioning them thoroughly if we do.

3) is revealing as slimer to get an inno Game lynched if you're evil a rather smart tactic, or not smart at all? I'm in the last camp, as basically it is a 1-versus-1 trade-off, where he could remain and symp otherwise, so I'd say that that line of reasoning is weak.

4) also, the risk of the role is that, for evil, he knows when and where he turned evil, and has the names of evil = the ones he blocked. If at any point he becomes good, he should be a good boy scout and tell us. The charm of the role is that he can pick sides if he can make enough deductions on who's who in the game.

[Rashan]

Thanks for your input Emur. I would like to stress the fact that I am indeed ready to go for either Gamelon or Mockra, which one we take down first doesn't matter to me, as long as we lynch the other one next.

I can see where Mockra is trying to go. He's now stated he will guard me, and we can't trust a word he's saying. I know I am a good guy, but Mockra could easily come back and say that he's now a good guy, making me a bad guy or whatever.


@ Mockra, you haven't read my posts properly, and I won't comment on anything you say until you do.

Edit: Although it's getting silly with you distancing from Gamelon like that. Didn't you say he was RI?

This post has been edited by Rashan: 06 December 2008 - 05:40 PM

[Kessobahn]

Emurlahn, on Dec 6 2008, 12:17 PM, said:

Kessobahn, on Dec 6 2008, 05:14 PM, said:

Ok, hung over, but I think its time to kick the game a bit. Mockra, everyone is trusting you as a wild-card. I believe you probably are slimer. But I can't just let you bump into anyone and risk you turning bad. Maybe you already have hit an inno (Gamelon) and so you turned bad and now are trying to get him lynched. Also, what I think is interesting about your role is that it doesn't say you bump into one and are good or bad for the remainder of the game, so you use it when you are evil, and bump into good guys, picking us off one at a time. For instance, you bumped into Game last night. He was inno(I assume) and you turn evil. You may even get team evils players names, but I doubt it. You get Game lynched, and tonight you bump again, you can then say, oh I hit an evil, its so and so, and we lynch them, that gives team evil 4 kills before we lynch you, giving them a significant advantage wih us down 2 GB's already. So yeah, you gots to go. Youre like slimer, cute and funny, but still a ghost.

A few comments on this, Kesso.

1) you fully believe Mockra's reveal, including the funny 'guard an inno, become scum, guard scum, become inno' clause. There's a problem with that:
a) if he becomes evil upon bumping into someone good, as you say, he should not reveal for then he is evil!
I have no clue if RIs are seen as neutral, but as far as I know, unroled inno's are still seen as a part of town in any other game, and Yellow said this wasn't a cult or merc game, so I assume RI = town = goodies, which should make the prankster evil most of the time anyway.
It's the mechanic I think he is lying about, as is Rashan's thought, but I see no comment from you on this.

2) why should we fully believe him and follow him like sheep, like your example suggests, for another night? This board is pretty dependant on finders, has always been, but we never follow them without questioning them thoroughly if we do.

3) is revealing as slimer to get an inno Game lynched if you're evil a rather smart tactic, or not smart at all? I'm in the last camp, as basically it is a 1-versus-1 trade-off, where he could remain and symp otherwise, so I'd say that that line of reasoning is weak.

4) also, the risk of the role is that, for evil, he knows when and where he turned evil, and has the names of evil = the ones he blocked. If at any point he becomes good, he should be a good boy scout and tell us. The charm of the role is that he can pick sides if he can make enough deductions on who's who in the game.

1 and 2

Right, the mechanic makes sense so I don't question it. ANd I am not saying follow him like sheep, I am saying lynch him, because if he is a good guy to day, we are okay, but if tonight he bumps into an inno, then he is evil and we arent ok. So no, you are wrong about what I am saying here, I don't want to let a loose cannon roam around, and risk them becoming evil.

3) I think Mockra is inno right now, but I am saying if tonight he slimes someone, he will no longer be and can manipulate his find to get us to lynch an inno, even at the expense of himself. So we need to eliminate that threat.
4) wrong agian, he would become evil upon an inno find. If he hits a guilty, of course he would reveal that info, but what if he cant change back, what if he hit an inno last night, and is evil for the duration and now is an evil finder. he will be able to control the game, at least temporarily and get a lynch. Its a pretty big gamble as we only have 2 GB's left, if he can get one lynched then he would gladly take a 1 to 1 trade.

[Emurlahn]

Kessobahn, on Dec 6 2008, 06:41 PM, said:

Emurlahn, on Dec 6 2008, 12:17 PM, said:

Kessobahn, on Dec 6 2008, 05:14 PM, said:

Ok, hung over, but I think its time to kick the game a bit. Mockra, everyone is trusting you as a wild-card. I believe you probably are slimer. But I can't just let you bump into anyone and risk you turning bad. Maybe you already have hit an inno (Gamelon) and so you turned bad and now are trying to get him lynched. Also, what I think is interesting about your role is that it doesn't say you bump into one and are good or bad for the remainder of the game, so you use it when you are evil, and bump into good guys, picking us off one at a time. For instance, you bumped into Game last night. He was inno(I assume) and you turn evil. You may even get team evils players names, but I doubt it. You get Game lynched, and tonight you bump again, you can then say, oh I hit an evil, its so and so, and we lynch them, that gives team evil 4 kills before we lynch you, giving them a significant advantage wih us down 2 GB's already. So yeah, you gots to go. Youre like slimer, cute and funny, but still a ghost.

A few comments on this, Kesso.

1) you fully believe Mockra's reveal, including the funny 'guard an inno, become scum, guard scum, become inno' clause. There's a problem with that:
a) if he becomes evil upon bumping into someone good, as you say, he should not reveal for then he is evil!
I have no clue if RIs are seen as neutral, but as far as I know, unroled inno's are still seen as a part of town in any other game, and Yellow said this wasn't a cult or merc game, so I assume RI = town = goodies, which should make the prankster evil most of the time anyway.
It's the mechanic I think he is lying about, as is Rashan's thought, but I see no comment from you on this.

2) why should we fully believe him and follow him like sheep, like your example suggests, for another night? This board is pretty dependant on finders, has always been, but we never follow them without questioning them thoroughly if we do.

3) is revealing as slimer to get an inno Game lynched if you're evil a rather smart tactic, or not smart at all? I'm in the last camp, as basically it is a 1-versus-1 trade-off, where he could remain and symp otherwise, so I'd say that that line of reasoning is weak.

4) also, the risk of the role is that, for evil, he knows when and where he turned evil, and has the names of evil = the ones he blocked. If at any point he becomes good, he should be a good boy scout and tell us. The charm of the role is that he can pick sides if he can make enough deductions on who's who in the game.

1 and 2

Right, the mechanic makes sense so I don't question it. ANd I am not saying follow him like sheep, I am saying lynch him, because if he is a good guy to day, we are okay, but if tonight he bumps into an inno, then he is evil and we arent ok. So no, you are wrong about what I am saying here, I don't want to let a loose cannon roam around, and risk them becoming evil.

3) I think Mockra is inno right now, but I am saying if tonight he slimes someone, he will no longer be and can manipulate his find to get us to lynch an inno, even at the expense of himself. So we need to eliminate that threat.
4) wrong agian, he would become evil upon an inno find.

If he hits a guilty, of course he would reveal that info, but what if he cant change back, what if he hit an inno last night, and is evil for the duration and now is an evil finder. he will be able to control the game, at least temporarily and get a lynch. Its a pretty big gamble as we only have 2 GB's left, if he can get one lynched then he would gladly take a 1 to 1 trade.

Quote

Right, the mechanic makes sense so I don't question it.

You think it makes sense that he becomes good after blocking evil, or evil after blocking good? You don't think that brings balancing problems and questions of loyalty?

Quote

So no, you are wrong about what I am saying here, I don't want to let a loose cannon roam around, and risk them becoming evil.

So top priority now for you is lynching a potential liability?

Quote

I think Mockra is inno right now,

by that extension, following your train of thought and the text in his own role as he told us, Gamelon is evil, isn't he? Why not vote Gamelon then? Surely a known scum is a bigger threat?

Quote

...he will no longer be and can manipulate his find to get us to lynch an inno, even at the expense of himself. So we need to eliminate that threat.

That contradicts with:

Quote

I am not saying follow him like sheep and that contradicts once again with he will be able to control the game, at least temporarily and get a lynch.

So, 3 contradictions in one post. Wow, a new record?
His is a questionable role, but I'd say that at any point in time, trading 1 scum for 1 inno is in the disadvantage of the scum, YMMV. Then sole exception I wish to make is a symp vs a predator-like role exchange, and even then the loss of a scum sets team scum back 1 day before they reach a majority, well-known fact. Lastly, we don't know what ghostbusters do. The interesting thing is that you assume that scum wins/controls the game when all GB are dead. Why?

Quote

4) wrong agian, he would become evil upon an inno find.

You, sir, as misreading what i say and I get the distinct impression you're doing it because you feel the need to get payback or revenge or whatever for what I did to you earlier.

Do you agree that if Mockra blocks a good guy, he becomes evil, and will know so?
Do you agree that Mockra can try to influence his own alignment by blocking people based on his own deductions about roles and alignments?
Do you agree that Mockra could identify where and when he becomes evil/good by looking at his blocked list, comparing it to finder reveals and cfs, even if he is not informed by P-S?
Do you agree that Mockra, when he is evil by blocking good guys (according to your model) and becomes good by blocking an evil guy, that he should point then out who the last guy was that he blocked, for us to lynch the scum with?
Do you agree that Mockra in this last case is a danger to scum?
That was the gist of my argument and I wrote it down as such.

Only, I do not believe Mockra's mechanic, as I've said in my expansion of Rashan's case, to be as it is. An expansion that you totally failed to comment on, too... despite it being the second-to-last post before you decided to 'kick the game into motion', and despite it leading to votes on Gamelon. You're a selective reader, I guess, or you want to divert attention away from Game, not that I expected anything less of you, symp that you are

[Mockra]

Guys, i am telling you now i do not know if my alignment changed. if gamelon is roleless innocent as claimed then i am EVIL. His assertation that my alignment wouldnt change was what made me suspicious as he is clutching at straws. Vote me off if you want, at least then i will know which team i can root for, as is, i cannot actively play, as i cannot know if i am hurting my team.

[Rashan]

Whoa Kesso, I had almost written you off as an inno, but here you come glomping back into my cross hairs again.

Summary goes like this:
2 very likely scum: Mockra and Gamelon
2 possible scum: Omtose and Kesso




Edit: @ Mockra, I'd be happy to oblige you.

This post has been edited by Rashan: 06 December 2008 - 06:34 PM

[Mockra]

Rashan, on Dec 6 2008, 06:33 PM, said:

Whoa Kesso, I had almost written you off as an inno, but here you come glomping back into my cross hairs again.

Summary goes like this:
2 very likely scum: Mockra and Gamelon
2 possible scum: Omtose and Kesso

you just don't seem to get this game rashan, sometimes i wonder if you even read other peoples posts. You seem to think i am gamelons symp, but i am the opposite of the person i guard, whther you belief that or not is not my concern. The factthough that you are ignoring the evidence given to you is very telling, and if do make it to night guarding you will hopefully make me inno, because being on your team is making me nauseous.

[Emurlahn]

Mockra, on Dec 6 2008, 07:27 PM, said:

Guys, i am telling you now i do not know if my alignment changed. if gamelon is roleless innocent as claimed then i am EVIL. His assertation that my alignment wouldnt change was what made me suspicious as he is clutching at straws. Vote me off if you want, at least then i will know which team i can root for, as is, i cannot actively play, as i cannot know if i am hurting my team.

well, lynching Game will give you your alignment . I personally question the mechanics of your role, I think you are lying about it, and have tied my interpretation of it to Gamelon, who was indeed eager to seize the PI declaration and then again expanded on it by coding his alledged personality. My reasons to suspect him as scum doesn't have to be completely matched by other people's reasons, after all.

For you personally, if Gamelon does come up as an identifiable scumrole, it does prove that I'm wrong about your role.

[Rashan]

Mockra, on Dec 6 2008, 07:35 PM, said:

you just don't seem to get this game rashan, sometimes i wonder if you even read other peoples posts. You seem to think i am gamelons symp, but i am the opposite of the person i guard, whther you belief that or not is not my concern. The factthough that you are ignoring the evidence given to you is very telling, and if do make it to night guarding you will hopefully make me inno, because being on your team is making me nauseous.

Oh, I do believe I do make you nauseous, but not because I'm on your team. And I do get this game, it's why I make you nauseous. And whether I believe you or not is your concern, unless you just want to give up.

Oh, wait, but you do.


Allright enough word plays. I guess we have to see where this leads. If there's a train on Gamelon, I'll switch lynch target.

[Kessobahn]

Fuck, are you guys serious, I may be making a big mistake, but all I can do is hope for a fucking healer after I clarify this. Em, you seem really smart, and certainly like picking me apart, so I can't believe you are this dull. As for Mockra, there are only 2 reasons for him pushing a Game lynch, either he didn't think his reveal through or he's scum. So I am going to tell you what I think you are missing.

Game is a fucking GB, what isn't inno or evil. The fucking GB, they aren't inno, because they aren't town. They aren't evil, because they are on the towns side, I can't believe you didn't see this before Mockra, as soon as you said it, I was like, IDIOT!!! SO now, you pulled the third GB out in the open, and the very intelligent Emu, who knows how to really play the game, is trying to push the lynch trough. I was waiting for the lynch to get to L-2, but no, I think that is a bad idea. I think we lynch Emur today. Because I think you have played brilliantly, but thats whats wrong here. You question Mockra's reveal, but still push the Game lynch. Wrong, mate, you gots to go.

Remove Vote Vote Emur

[Path-Shaper]

Day 2, weeknd freeze is in effect. Clock starts at 7GMT Monday, with 12 hours left.

15 of you are still alive (Rashan, Ruse, Kaschan, D'riss, Kessobahn, Korlat, Gamelon, Shadow, Tennes, Fener, Silanah, Mockra, Omtose, Emurlahn, Hood's Path)

8 votes to lynch or go to night

1 vote for D'riss: Shadow
1 vote for Mockra : Rashan,
5 votes for Omtose : Ruse, Fener, Kaschan, D'riss,
1 vote for Gamelon: Emurlahn Mockra
1 vote for Emurlahn :Kessobahn

6 people have not voted: Gamelon, Hood's Path, Omtose, Silanah, Tennes, Korlat

[Mockra]

Kessobahn, on Dec 6 2008, 07:55 PM, said:

Fuck, are you guys serious, I may be making a big mistake, but all I can do is hope for a fucking healer after I clarify this. Em, you seem really smart, and certainly like picking me apart, so I can't believe you are this dull. As for Mockra, there are only 2 reasons for him pushing a Game lynch, either he didn't think his reveal through or he's scum. So I am going to tell you what I think you are missing.

Game is a fucking GB, what isn't inno or evil. The fucking GB, they aren't inno, because they aren't town. They aren't evil, because they are on the towns side, I can't believe you didn't see this before Mockra, as soon as you said it, I was like, IDIOT!!! SO now, you pulled the third GB out in the open, and the very intelligent Emu, who knows how to really play the game, is trying to push the lynch trough. I was waiting for the lynch to get to L-2, but no, I think that is a bad idea. I think we lynch Emur today. Because I think you have played brilliantly, but thats whats wrong here. You question Mockra's reveal, but still push the Game lynch. Wrong, mate, you gots to go.

Remove Vote Vote Emur

you think gam is a ghostbuster? where did you get that idea? i thought he said he was roleless innocent?

[Kessobahn]

well, he's not gonna reveal as a ghostbuster is he? Look, I am a Roleless inno, I got no name and no role, just a dude. If he was lying about being a roleless inno, he would be evil and you would have gotten a you are innocent pm. Since you didn't the only thing he could be is a fucking GB. That means you drew him into the open. Now I understand, if you are telling the truth, which I believe you are, why you would be confused and reveal(although you should have waited until you had a better idea of what you were doing, IMO). But I saw it, and with the level of intelligence that Emur is showing, I expect him to have thought the same thing. But he pushed hard for a Game lynch, even saying we lynch game first. SO no, he wanted Game lynched, to save the killers the trouble. Do I know for sure, no, but it makes sense. I just hope we have a healer, that can heal him tonight or he's toast, but better that than lynching a secon GB.

[Mockra]

He could be evil, if he does actually have a name he could be zul for all we know.

[Kessobahn]

Mockra, on Dec 6 2008, 04:48 PM, said:

He could be evil, if he does actually have a name he could be zul for all we know.

But you would have gotten a "you are good" pm. You didn't you got a "you are still nuetral, pm.

[Mockra]

I have stressed this since i revealed, i was told i was not a finder guard, i will not get a pm telling me my new alignment. if i currently am not neutral i have not been informed. By your own reckoning gamelon can't be a ghostbuster because otherwise i woul dhave been told i am evil. I think he is RI and i am EVIL, yet none of you seem to believe that.