[Aptorian]

TTH or RCG. But I'm guessing the quote doesn't exist.

[Silencer]

Aai! I have the solution!

1) Rake was fighting Draconus who was wielding Dragnipur. This means Rake could not afford to take a single hit. Hence the duration of the fight.
2) Rake was fighting the Seguleh with Dragnipur. This means that every one he killed put more metaphysical stress on Rake's shoulders. His reaction to Hood (whom he only killed with one hit, so no physical exertion) shows that the deaths of the Seguleh would also have tired him. Now, before you get all antsy and state the scenes where Rake kills other people and doesn't get tired from it, they are not Seguleh. Their skill as swordfighters and physical conditioning must translate into a reasonably powerful soul form, leading to more weight than others.


tada! reasons for the discrepancies.

[Grief]

Well, any fight at all with dragnipur is going to be far more physically demanding than normal.

[BeLeG]

sacase your arguments make no sense whatsoever

I repeat,show me another swordsman who killed a score of Seguleh one after the other.Show me a quote saying that the Seguleh 6th would have killed Rake if he stayed.
Show me one swordsman who bested Rake anyway

[sacase]

BeLeG, on Feb 7 2009, 04:33 PM, said:

sacase your arguments make no sense whatsoever

I repeat,show me another swordsman who killed a score of Seguleh one after the other.Show me a quote saying that the Seguleh 6th would have killed Rake if he stayed.
Show me one swordsman who bested Rake anyway

Your arguments are even poorer. The same can be said for almost all the swordsmen we have talked about. IF they had lost they would have died. I can trump you though. Show me a swordsman that fought armies the way Mok, Senu, and Thurule did. Thousands of people at one time. But please enlighten me by sharing what the ranks of the Seguleh Rake killed. All 20 of them please....I will give you one...the 7th. It would stand to reason that the fight with the seventh could have wore him out.

[Grief]

Anomander rake has defeated:

Osserc.
Draconus.
Kilmandaros.
3 eleint, at once.

Oh, and in MoI, Rake goes to fight a whole army by himself. Alone.

T'lan imass, if good enough, probably could too, considering they're so damn hard to kill.

[Grief]

sacase, on Feb 7 2009, 09:40 PM, said:

Show me a swordsman that fought armies the way Mok, Senu, and Thurule did. Thousands of people at one time.

Both Rake and Icarium have done this. Alone.

[sacase]

Grief, on Feb 7 2009, 04:45 PM, said:

sacase, on Feb 7 2009, 09:40 PM, said:

Show me a swordsman that fought armies the way Mok, Senu, and Thurule did. Thousands of people at one time.

Both Rake and Icarium have done this. Alone.

which further hurts his claim about killing 20 seguleh 19 of which were unknown rank.

[L'oric]

BeLeG, on Feb 7 2009, 01:34 PM, said:

sacase when was Rake defeated in a swordfight?Did the Seguleh beat him?No
Tell me is there anyone else who has killed a score of Seguleh without a pause?
Even Tool was hard-pressed by an un-ranked Thurule.Rake killed a score of Seguleh and then he beat their seventh best swordsman.And then he left because because he was physically tired.So what?What does that prove in terms of sword-skill?Absolutely nothing.
So,who's making things up?

OOO such a good bunch of posts.

My Tool man undeadthenturnedman love reared its ugly head on this. Tool in an effort to not kill Thurule only used the flat of his blade during this fight. A feat impressive enough that Mok moved to immediately challenge him. Suggesting that it was something that Mok thought worthy enough of his station. As we believe we know that challenges occur most often lower to higher not higher to lower.

Everything else that has been said about the Seguleh with Mok is true, except for the fact that they challenged all those armies Alone. They also had the future Ruler of the Beast hold or a future hound of shadow or something with the dog and the Ay. Oh and they had Envy...just the daighter of Draconus.

Quote

Anomander rake has defeated:

Osserc.
Draconus.
Kilmandaros.
3 eleint, at once.

-Grief

We do not know how he beat Kilimandaros...he could have tricked her...he could have conspired with the Azath to take her. Nor do we know that he beat Osserc with a sword (unless you can quote that then I would love to be wrong) He beat Draconus with a sword and somehow he had Dragnipur in his hands by the end of the duel.

In my mind the only one man army is Icarium. Please show me quotes about anyone taking on an army all by themselves...cause they would also be awesome quotes and I would love to see em.

Sincerely,
L'oric

[Grief]

I'll just go fetch them then

[BeLeG]

Senu parried two of Tool's attacks with his swords sheathed
Tool said that this fight could last a long time.So a damn 11th level initiate,a 14 year old boy, is good enough to fight against Tool for a considerable amount of time.But Tool is undead so he doesnt tire,does he?On the other hand Rake is not undead.There's your answer.Even unranked Seguleh can make a duel last for a long time,even if they fight against the top.And L'oric Tool survived all those slashes from Thurule because he was undead not because of his sword-skill.So he had the luxury to fight him with the flat of his blade

Oh and the three Seguleh never fought thousands of enemies on their own.They had lady Envy's elder magic(which is the equivalent of several bombs) two elder pets and Onos Toolan.


About Rake's sword skills:he can move so fast that Karsa and the Hounds of Shadow can't see his moves.On the other Hand Karsa can see Icarium's moves.

This post has been edited by BeLeG: 07 February 2009 - 10:21 PM

[sacase]

Grief, on Feb 7 2009, 05:14 PM, said:

I'll just go fetch them then

Quote wars are great!

[Grief]

Memories of Ice page 740 said:

"Expect another battle, at dawn. A messy one"
"Leave that to me" Anomander Rake drawled.
The voice pulled Whiskeyjack round in surprise "Lord, forgive me. I didn't see you. I'm afraid I was somewhat...preoccupied."
Dujek asked "You are offering to set your Tiste Andii against the Tenescowri, Lord?"
"Hardly," Rake replied. "I mean to scare them witless. In person."

[Grief]

Envy could probably take an army by herself.
See end of MoI, and her vs. Spite in TTH, for evidence.

[BeLeG]

oh and about the Tool vs Thurule debate.
Lady Envy said that Tool was "hard-pressed"
So if we can believe her words about Rake and the Seguleh we can believe her words about this fight also

[L'oric]

BeLeG, on Feb 7 2009, 03:15 PM, said:

Senu parried two of Tool's attacks with his swords sheathed
Tool said that this fight could last a long time.So a damn 11th level initiate,a 14 year old boy, is good enough to fight against Tool for a considerable amount of time.But Tool is undead so he doesnt tire,does he?On the other hand Rake is not undead.There's your answer.Even unranked Seguleh can make a duel last for a long time,even if they fight against the top.

Oh and the three Seguleh never fought thousands of enemies on their own.They had lady Envy's elder magic(which is the equivalent of several bombs) two elder pets and Onos Toolan.

That last sentence I got in there first. I wonder if that is what Apt feels liek whenever he answers a question before everyone else....I got to admit thats a good feeling.

I do not remember and also do not think that Tool says one way or another if he was actually trying to harm Senu. The fact that he parried two attacks with a half drawn sword in my mind speaks of his ability not of Tools. Why would he try to kill one brother but not the other? So if he was only trying to hurt/incapacitate Senu then I would not expect Senu to put up much of a defense against Tool. The fact that he is undead certainly points to him being able to take all sorts of damage in order to win if he wanted to "sheath the sword" to borrow a Jordanism.

Oh and remember Tool was badly exhausted/weakened throughout MOI.

Sincerely,
L'oric

[Grief]

This is true.
There is a quote saying Tool is severely weakened/working at low strength throughout.

[L'oric]

Grief, on Feb 7 2009, 03:19 PM, said:

Memories of Ice page 740 said:

"Expect another battle, at dawn. A messy one"
"Leave that to me" Anomander Rake drawled.
The voice pulled Whiskeyjack round in surprise "Lord, forgive me. I didn't see you. I'm afraid I was somewhat...preoccupied."
Dujek asked "You are offering to set your Tiste Andii against the Tenescowri, Lord?"
"Hardly," Rake replied. "I mean to scare them witless. In person."

Thanks Grief. Is that the battle where Korbal broach <sp?> and Bacuhelain try to capture Anaster? It does not say here if he is just going to veer and blow them apart as a dragon or if he is going to wade into them with swords...if he wades into them with swords then it would be what icarium does..and mok and the seguleh. Of course we know that mok and the seguleh had magical help and a few ultra powerful creatures with them. We have also seen Tool use the Tellan warren while weilding a sword to blow up a wall much like the Hounds of Darkness and Shadow seem to be able to do. If Rake unveils Elder Darkness that way then yummy goodness but I think he turns into a dragon wouldnt he?

Sincerely
L'oric

[Grief]

Not really relevant if we're comparing to Icarium.
Its not as if when he wipes out armies he's entirely normal. He's got his whole passive magic thing going on.

[BeLeG]

Loric I am talking about Senu's and Thurule's skill here.
I just think that even un'ranked Seguleh can press the best swordsmen out there(and Tool is one of them).You cant dispatch a Seguleh in the blink of an eye.
The fact that Rake had to fight for two bells against 20 Seguleh doesnt mean that he is not the top swordsman,that's all I'm trying to say