[Ain't_It_Just_]

In TtH, he got pissed at Rake, killed him, sulked and wandered off. Whereas before he was saving "my vengeance will not be stopped. Not even delayed."

Or did something else happen?

[Jude]

either killing rake was enough to quell the need for vengeance (makes no sense) or killing rake was just such a horrible thing to do that Travman's grief was stronger than his need for vengeance (makes no sense)

......

Good point, AIJ

[Lisheo]

I'm assuming he meant he couldn't get into Dragnipur to kill Hood, but he knew when Dragnipur was broken Hood would appear somewhere, and he didn't intend to let a little something like that get in his way.

[Ain't_It_Just_]

@Jude

If you're right...

Trav: Ha, suck it, Rake.
"stabs him"
"universe stops"
Trav: Er....

Although, he seems to have gotten over it... heading off to god knows where. Maybe to find that bear.

[Trotts]

I kind of got the feeling that Traveller/Dassem thought Rake was hiding Hood, or blocking his path to Hood, so he attacked. But after killing Rake kind of realized what had happened, and then broke apart at what he'd done. Lord of Sorrow and all that.

[D'rek]

I'm with Trotts. He didn't realize the truth of things until afterwards.

And later we learn Cotillion offered to explain to Trav the situation when they met before the fight, but he refused...

[Jude]

than why was he all howling at the moon and throwing a temper tantrum after Cot talked to him? was he just really really annoyed that cot was persisting in trying to tell him what was what?

[D'rek]

 Jude, on Dec 1 2008, 02:20 PM, said:

than why was he all howling at the moon and throwing a temper tantrum after Cot talked to him? was he just really really annoyed that cot was persisting in trying to tell him what was what?

Well I figure he didn't really want to fight Rake just to get at Hood. Either he'd win and have killed Rake for no good reason, or else he'd lose and not get his revenge.

[Altamont]

Did Traveller actually kill Rake, or did Rake more or less committed suicide? If so, by being able to force Traveller to kill Rake with Rake's own sword, wouldn't that make Rake the superior swordsman? AND IF SO, couldn't that have affected Traveller, in the sense that he had killed someone better than him?

AR

[dktorode]

 Altamont, on Dec 2 2008, 05:49 AM, said:

Did Traveller actually kill Rake, or did Rake more or less committed suicide? If so, by being able to force Traveller to kill Rake with Rake's own sword, wouldn't that make Rake the superior swordsman? AND IF SO, couldn't that have affected Traveller, in the sense that he had killed someone better than him?

AR

I dont think you can make that assumption, letting someone smash your own sword into your face is not exactly that hard I would think.

[Silencer]

Hmmm...there has been much discussion of this. Some say yes (Rake manipulated the fight that way, so he was better, and it was obvious that doing what he did was deliberate), others say no. I'm not quite sure what their point is, except that it wasn't necessarily skill that allowed Rake to do what he did - it was easy, as dkt said. Either way, they are pretty evenly matched, and Rake did what he did deliberately. So I suppose it cannot be said that Traveler beat him, or won. *shrug*

As for Trav 'getting his vengeance' - no. He hasn't killed Hood yet, has he? This storyline is still well open.

[dktorode]

I think Travellar was either upset because he didnt lose to anomander in order to enter the sword to get his vengeance, or he was upset because he realised too late that Anomander let him drive the sword into his own face.
All depends on what was said between cot and Dassem and how much he actually knew was going on i suppose.

[Silencer]

The other thing one must consider: "No one can stand between Traveler and his Vengeance"

Rake did. That would also be somewhat frustrating. Plus the fact he killed someone he respected, for no reason. As has already been mentioned.

[dktorode]

 Silencer, on Dec 2 2008, 09:48 AM, said:

The other thing one must consider: "No one can stand between Traveler and his Vengeance"

Rake did. That would also be somewhat frustrating. Plus the fact he killed someone he respected, for no reason. As has already been mentioned.

Thats more than likely why Rake chose him as the person to face. Since he would not let Rake stand in his way no matter what.
And would not hesitate to attack.

[Ain't_It_Just_]

That would mean he knew he was going to lose...but not necessarily killed?

When you consider it, Rake played a huge gamble. if he had failed, The Dying God would have nabbed KG and all would have been lost.

All in a day's work, hey?

[Prince K'azz D'Avore]

 Ain't_It_Just_, on Nov 24 2008, 08:47 PM, said:

In TtH, he got pissed at Rake, killed him, sulked and wandered off. Whereas before he was saving "my vengeance will not be stopped. Not even delayed."

Or did something else happen?

Its pretty clear that Traveller intended to be killed by Rake to get into Dragnipur, because he knew that Hood was within the sword.
When Rake killed himself with his sword (or let Traveller kill him w/ it, either way), he was just doing what he knew he needed to all along and get into Dragnipur.
Traveller did not get his vengence, hence his sadness and the homie Karsa saying he was cheated

[Ain't_It_Just_]

Probably going to find some other big nasty to lock swords with.

[Saf]

I got the impression that Dassem's sorrow was at killing someone he liked.

I think it is possible that he killed Rake like that on purpose. I mean Dassem was supposed to be one of the most powerful swordsmen alive, even Karsa was freaked out.

Rake was warn out as well which could have led him to be manipulated into such a position.

I also believe Rake's move within the sword was making lemonade out of lemons, instead of his master plan.

I'm actually glad that Erikson got rid of Rake, it was the only death I didn't regret. While he may be a great guy, I don't like perfect, immortal characters. I mean part of what makes the malazan series great is that you never know who is gonna die, and that the power struggles will continuously surprise you.

[Silencer]

No, the fact that Draconus had Kadaspalara preparing a ritual for the express purpose, and that Mother Dark viewed what Rake had done as worthy of her forgiveness, I somehow doubt Rake did not intend it. Otherwise, why did he bother going to Darujhistan, and plotting with Hood? To avoid Traveller killing Hood? What difference would that have made, really?

And Karsa was not freaked out at Traveller. He was freaked out at Traveller and Rake. "No one in their right mind would step between those two now" or something to that effect. Emphasis added on two.

[Hinter]

 Silencer, on Dec 16 2008, 07:53 AM, said:

No, the fact that Draconus had Kadaspalara preparing a ritual for the express purpose, and that Mother Dark viewed what Rake had done as worthy of her forgiveness, I somehow doubt Rake did not intend it. Otherwise, why did he bother going to Darujhistan, and plotting with Hood? To avoid Traveller killing Hood? What difference would that have made, really?

And Karsa was not freaked out at Traveller. He was freaked out at Traveller and Rake. "No one in their right mind would step between those two now" or something to that effect. Emphasis added on two.

Agreed. Rake had planned it all too carefully to accidently get killed, and Karsa was shaken by the skill that both Rake and Traveller were showing, and wouldn't have wanted to face either.

This post has been edited by Hinter: 16 December 2008 - 08:04 AM