[Fener]

D'riss, on Nov 25 2008, 06:58 PM, said:

lol
me and Fener are in the same group based on posting behaviour--as are you, btw
I first was pointed towards fener when early in the day Rashan said "fener's one of those low-posters that's actually being helpful. He's okay in my book". as at the time, all attention was on Rashan, him trying to clear someone like that got me looking.
but I didn't find much (this was before Rashan's case on fener).
Only that
1) he was playing very clean (as in TOO clean, posibly)
2) he mentoned that you and gamelon think like him, so that makes you (to him) PIs.

now, on point 2 I ribbed him a bit about how, well he shouldn't make anyone PI without a good reason, and that since "thinking like him" at the time amounted to "I also think that Rashan's suspicious and may make a good lynch target", it was nowhere near indicative of you guys being PI.

Then Rashan made his case, followed by Thyr's ananlysis, and they drew a whole team of scum out of it--Fener, Liosan, and Kaschan. I pointed out to what I thought were strenuous at best links between some of them. I'm not dismising that case, and I certainly find one of the alleged scum (Kas) to be VERY worthy of attention, but I thought there were some problems with it being as neat as Rash and Thyr made it seem.
my concern is about fener trying to subtly clear you and gamelon, both of whom are in this middleing post range, not-really-committed-to-anything zone. it's not really a concrete susspicion, just some things to keep in mind.

now then, I do have a question for you: could you outline why exactly Rashan's behaviour warrants so much suspicion?
(I realize this may sound like I'm defending rashan, but honestly, the only thing I could see about both you and gamelon is that you seem willing to tip towards a Rash train, should one appear, so it's the best place to start asking questions)

I don't really remember saying anyone was PI except for Liosan because of reasons mentioned above. Sorry if it came across that way, I just meant that they are thinking along the same lines as me and so I wasn't looking at them as closely. thats all.

[Fener]

I'm out for a while. Back in an hour or so.

[Tennes]

Fener, on Nov 26 2008, 03:04 AM, said:

I am guessing you mean Kaschan. I could see that as a possible combo, Liosan being the one taking the brunt of the attack, while Kaschstands back. I would definately not feel bad about voting for either. Liosan has definately been rabid in his attacks on both Rash and Sil even when they said they were going to back off eachother. But like I said before...if Liosan is a killer... he has balls the size of Melons to pull a stunt like that. It was blatently bad for the innos AND there is no way he could expect to survive to endgame. How about a Kasch/Gamelon pairing?

See I still think it's quite possible that Liosan is trying to play us with the Fake Ninja. It was such a weak justification for doing it - he's played the game before (I find it highly unlikely that he's Sir Thursday, doesn't fit with my knowledge of him - sorry for the meta interruption there), he knows what he's doing. It hurts team inno quite a bit, and several people have come out of it afterwards and said there's no way he could be scum because of it. People are saying they'll lynch him in a few rounds, but there'll be new stuff coming up and I can see him getting swept under the carpet, especially if we don't hit a killer tonight. If anything, I feel he's more likely to be scum now than I did before he did it. But I've asked him a question about it, I guess we'll see whether he can come up with a watertight response when he comes back.

[D'riss]

@ Fener: well, no worries, like I said, you're not too high on my radar right now.

@ Tennes: I see where you're getting this from. problem is, I really hate cases based on day 1 behaviour, because it's often just... well, day 1.
I wasn't around for a lot of the stuff this morning--I was reading up when the forum crashed, and when i came back it was just to hear Rashan and Silanah agree to lay off each other for a day to force other people to speak up to keept he game going--a decision I liked, and that's why i was baffled by Liosan's militant reaction to it.

I'm not sure about his reaction to the Liosan fake-out, but I know for a fact that I was the first one to vote Liosan after the fact, but before he explained himself. I also raised the idea that he was a symp, as a possibility, but did not really pursue it--the only semblance of a tain at that point was Rashan with 3 votes, and Anomander was actively pushing attention from Rashan to Shadow, so i felt a bit lost actually,

Now, I may have to look over Rashan's early night remarks, but that seems to be the only thing I can readily put against him.

[Tennes]

On Kaschan/Gamelon:

It's a possible, although I want to hear a little more from Gamelon before I jump to any conclusions. He gives me a bad vibe, but I haven't really had the occasion to post at the same time as him, so I'll withhold judgement until he's had a chance to post during this game day.

Kaschan rubbed me the wrong way early - I was the first person to bring up that sudden shift in his dealings with Rashan at the beginning, if you cast your minds back. He's claiming sickness, which may very well be genuine, but he should probably try and engage in discussion if he's going to avoid an angry mob descending upon him and stuffing a squid in his mouth (probably wouldn't help his illness any ), because a lot have people have picked up on him.

Oh, and I want to hear from Korlat at some point - he's been rather quiet and insubstantial also.

[Tennes]

Right, I'm off. I probably won't be on for a while - I have a busy morning tomorrow, but I'll try and get back as soon as possible. Have fun without me!

[D'riss]

and i am left by my lonesome... again

[D'riss]

hey, people!
just as my bedtime nears, but still!

[Korlat]

I just made it back - apologies about my absence today.

I'm going to go back and have a look at Gamelon, maybe see if there is anything I can find in there...

[D'riss]

well, guess I could stick around a bit longer, to see this...

[Gamelon]

OK, I'm catching up, three more pages to go, but I have a few comments already:

Rashan, making cases on everyone is as bad as making cases on nobody. It's very easy to quote a bunch of posts from a player and make comments, everything anyone says can be commented on, that's not making a case. And doing it on everyone just cancels it, what's your point, you're inno vs 7 killers?

Don't make cases by quoting a few player's posts and saying "spam" after a post where they say they go to bed, etc. Make a few quotes that show the behavior of the player that you find suspicious and why you find this suspicious. As of now, you're again spamming, and it annoys me even more considering I read from time to time that I'm a low poster, which I'm not.

As for Silanah, he's again still more concerned about making friends and protecting/defending himself than anything else.

That's the continuation of my day 1 suspicions, let me finish my catch-up, I'll be back.

[Gamelon]

Liosan, on Nov 26 2008, 12:36 AM, said:

A quick point-Gamelon seems to be very non-confrontational, and staying very low, unlike D'riss, Fener, Thyrllan etc, who at least appear to be trying to contribute.

OK, to address once all those damned comments:

Yesterday, my whole contributing time was, first, waiting for PS to show ninja result, then night, then board meltdown. I could come back to the computer before leaving for bed and read the end-of-night post at that time. Since then I have been sleeping godammit.

I DID make some contributions and threw some shit around even if it was night, which I was the first to say was not the smartest thing to do, just because I don't like to just stare at the thread and stay silent. Ironically, that was stupid because it put Rashan in danger, since if I had got NKed after I attacked him at night he would have come under pressure (isn't he the one that loves WIFOM?), but I guess no damage was done.

[D'riss]

how long does it take to read over Gamelon, Korlat?
He didn't post THAT much...

@ Gamelon: timezones are a bitch, I know. anyone else you ssupect aside from rashan?

This post has been edited by D'riss: 26 November 2008 - 06:28 AM

[D'riss]

dead thread is dead,

I wish I were done with this stupid work so that I could sleep...

[Gamelon]

D'riss, on Nov 26 2008, 07:27 AM, said:

@ Gamelon: timezones are a bitch, I know. anyone else you ssupect aside from rashan?

I fail to understand why there is any problem about wanting to get Rashan lynched today. Just because he was in the spotlight yesterday doesn't mean the case against him is less likely to be valid. This is not the Fashion Scene, there is no "cool" and "uncool" target.

In summary:

- Started the day by spamming a lot, admits it himself

- At some point, Shadow defends him, which for a killer is gold. After that, he decided to tie himself to Shadow and defends him back, etc. If you're inno, being defended by someone doesn't mean anything about that person, so there's no point "returning the favor" with the enthousiasm he did on day 1. Unless he's a killer knowing that Shadow is inno. Then, after Shadow's CF, he quickly recalls everyone that they were "almost lovers" in the eyes of everyone, which is a falsity and an attempt to cash on Shadow's commitment to defend him

- After the Liosan/Ano thing, he says that they might both be scum, then calls them VPI and PI. Again, that makes no sense whatsoever, VPI and PI arise from circomstances that have nothing to do with "the way people respond" or "the way they behave". It has to do with game mechanics logical conclusions. Why would he PI/VPI anyone for no reason? Like this he can kill them and proudly show that he "defended/PIed an inno", which he did after the NK.

- When Shadow mentioned his hypothesis that Liosan and Ano could be scum, he went back to his "lover rubbing" and switched back to his original post. He says he originally considered them suspicious, but after their reactions and the fact that PS ignored the ninja, he changed his mind and saw them as PI. That makes no sense logically at all, when you see a ninja attack on someone the obvious conclusion is that (at least) the ninja is inno, since that's how he is in the role list. Thus, he has no justfication for his switcharoos, except the ones I just mentioned.

- During the night, posts these posts that bugged me like I said before

- Today, wants to turn the page to look somewhere else. Why? We learned things on day 1, tough shit if he's in the heat. And today, he managed to equate continuing to put pressure on him and Sil as "scummy", which is absurd. Of course there's probably another killer that we are not on to right now, but why not use the information we have? Maybe we DID have on under heat on day 1.

- He starts making those spam-multi-quote-and-comments on everyone, which like I said earlier is counter-productive. You chose a target and explain why you find that person scummy, and vote. Let others judge your case and make their own on different targets if they want to. And if he's doing this a favor to us all, then do it on everyone, not just on 5-6 chosen targets. I know he didn't do it one everyone since he didn't do it on me, at least.

-Also, his "WTF? 2 players reading the thread? Stop lurking people post post post post" numerous comments piss me off. This is NOT a slow game, and we DON'T have lurking players, forcing others to post is just a way to add other's spam to his own and make the game harder.

vote Rashan

[D'riss]

ok, that was coherent and to the point
Thanks, gamelon. Honestly

I'm not 100% sold on this, because I dislike basing my suspicions on day 1 stufff. but your case has merit.

[Gamelon]

And, by the way, of course there are others I find suspicious. I just focus my own energies on Rashan so that people can choose to agree with me or not, and if the majority does then we have a lynch I like.

However, if I'm wrong about Rashan (i.e. if Rashan or someone else can instill a doubt in my mind, or if things happen that make me doubt myself), then I would say that I am bugged by Silanah, and to a lesser extent by D'riss and Thyrlan.

[Korlat]

I've been over everything Gamelon has posted, twice. There is literally nothing there that hints killer to me - other than his sudden desire to talk about lynch suspects at night, right after we lost two inno's in a row. I already brought this up at the time, and it's kind of a one-off thing. Still...

Bah. I like the idea of a Rashan lynch at this point. It's not the nicest case, but it does seem like all we've got...

EDIT: Added a ',' after 'posted'...

This post has been edited by Korlat: 26 November 2008 - 07:49 AM

[Korlat]

Korlat, on Nov 25 2008, 09:04 AM, said:

If night had ended normally? You mean who would I have voted for?

Hmmm...much as I dislike discussing it at night, I was leaning towards Shadow, tbh. Especially his whole "this is how the killers would play" thing.

But it's damn hard to get a good read on people during day one.

I'm not dismissing the 'case' on Rashan, I'm merely uncomfortable with doing this sort of thing at night. As I said, it's a bit grasping at straws (or even, dare I say, bloodthirsty?), to start pointing fingers at people who were defended by a roled inno, for no real reason that I have seen yet (haven't had time to do a re-read for that, I'll do it in the morning), straight after we just lost two inno's, during the night. If you see my point?

Anyway, g'night.

Gamelon, on Nov 25 2008, 09:11 AM, said:

What? I'm not basing anything on the fact he was defended by Shadow. Being defended by an inno doesn't make you anything at all. I was just reacting to his posts since the end-of-day scene.

Yes, night is not the best time for that, but like I said, some of these comments were getting to me.

I mean, "I'm curious who will get NKed"? Is there anything less natural to say for an inno? What's that about, "Hehehehe after that they'll never guess I'm the one who does the chosing"?

Anyways.

This little exchange is a bit weird, actually. I didn't say that Gam was basing anything on Rashan being defended by an inno, but he seemed to think I was suggesting he was.
Just a bit defensive in tone, the whole way through....

[Path-Shaper]

It's day 2. There's 21 hours left of the day.

10 players remain:
Thyrllan, Rashan, Kaschan, D'riss, Korlat, Liosan, Gamelon, Tennes, Fener, Silanah

6 votes needed to lynch
5 votes needed to go to night

2 vote Rashan - Liosan, Gamelon
1 vote Kashan - Rashan
1 vote Fener = Thyrllan

Players who have not voted:
Thyrllan, Kaschan, D'riss, Korlat, Tennes, Fener, Silanah