[Aptorian]

The seguleh is confirmed as a "true" Seguleh in TTH, there is no doubt. He's not just a fighter like Rake that earned a tittle.

[Fox]

Aptorian, on Dec 2 2008, 03:22 AM, said:

The Seguleh Second lived/or last experienced the Seguleh people when they lived in Darujistan, before they became isolationist. Hence, they were a different people once. Most likely the Tyrant either shaped them into that martial society or they became that way to fight him.

This is going to be pretty off topic, but I don't know where else to ask, because I don't remember in which book we first hear about the Tyrant of Darujhistan:

What do we know about the Tyrant? Why do so many people seem so convinced that the Seguleh are related to him in some way?


As for Skinner, I figured that he probably met the Second once, and challenged him, then fled before they could finish the fight.

[Aptorian]

Nothings really known about the Tyrant. Like ancient Rome, Darujistan once had kings or a similar type of rulers. I don't actually remember any references in GotM besides the place called Despots Barbican.

In Bonehunters Crokus meets the Seguleh Second and the dialogue hints at the seguleh peoples ancient past. There's also some talk of this tyrant and all of a sudden Crokus develops a need to return to the city.

If you do a search for threads about the tyrant in the BH or RG forum, more than a dozen threads will probably pop up, among them one I made where I think I transcribed the scene for discussion. Have a look.

[Fox]

Thanks!

[drinksinbars]

i think skinner and the second has to do with ardata and jacuruku really. if you read return the scene with traveller in jakarucku they say skinner and the avowed stole something on behest of the spider queen. also the seguleh are searching for someone who stole something from them when they meet ironbars. skinner has only been avowed for what 100 years? so he has probably had some run in with the second in that time.

dassem was hoods kinight when fighting the guard, in NOK its confirmed he fought patrons of other gods as he was patroned by death. This would be when he fought the guard for the first time as well.

the tyrant seemed to imbue demons blood in not only the seguleh but the torrud as well. baruk and vorcan are those magus he left in control of the city, the seguleh were the army in place to perform the will of the torrud cabal it seems, but in order for the city to prosper, it seems they were sent away to the islands near where the grey swords formed. itkovian mentions their island as being just off the coast from elingarth.

the second is confirmed as a seguleh in tth. the timescales of darujhistan and the seguleh seem wrong, the city formed on a rumour of the finnest of reast. but raest isnt the tyrant. perhaps there was a human tyrant who utlisied the finnest int he past??

anyway. it seems likely since the vow that skinner had a run in with the second whom he killed, by whatever means is not sure. In dying though the second seems to have been recruited by hood as knight, perhaps in opposition to ardata. It is interesting to note that skinner is king in chains and also a consort to the spider goddess.

Where does that leave mappo? who is indebted to her, or pust who is married to the high priestest of ardata? we have a slightly unholy union of shadow, chains and spider with icarum in the middle as a new god possibly trying to usurp krul as master of warrens??

[beru]

what if Skinners dueled the 2. and the 2. culd not harm him beackuse he had the armor... its MAGIC ifused... and what do Seguleh hate??

Spoiler

magic ofc

<=its not a spoiler only the asnver to my qestion...

[Ain't_It_Just_]

I wonder if the Soldier of Death will try to get to Skinner now he's the King in Chains...

[Aptorian]

I don't think the 2nd would care if Skinner was the Crippled God. Those two are going to have a fight if Skinner wants to or not.

[Ain't_It_Just_]

I honestly think so long as he's got that freaky armor, Skinner's damn near invincible.

[Aptorian]

Ain't_It_Just_, on Jan 9 2009, 09:09 AM, said:

I honestly think so long as he's got that freaky armor, Skinner's damn near invincible.

Well, obviously he wasn't since Dassem figured out that he could just stab him in the throat. The Seguleh second will probably just tear his head off

[Ain't_It_Just_]

Or summon some of his undead cronies... The Justice League of Corpses, n'est ce-pas?

[Called-by-the-Voices]

I was pondering over this for some time, is Skinner now the Second? I mean, my impression was always that Skinner had killed the Second (be it in an unfair or fair way) and took his place. That just pissed the ex-Second off, and now he wants Skinner dead. But since Dassem defeated Skinner, is he now the Second, and Skinner the Third? What about Mok then?

And I realize the first is missing? Of, my head is aching

[Benji]

The Segulah hierarchy would be extremely confusing if not for something Rell says in Li Heng. He mentions that battles to gain rank are watched over by a group of judges.

Makes it odd that Rake got to sixth or something just by carving his way through them though.

[Called-by-the-Voices]

Yes, I forgot about that part. But still, let's say Skinner kebab'd the Second without the judges watching, what now? Is he the Second? Or do they just all move one rank up, since there were no judges?

[MTS]

I doubt the Seguleh would acknowledge it. I mean, Seguleh end up fighting so many people it would be impossible to keep up with who's where when no one witnesses it. The Second is absent, and so is Mok, so they would still retain their positions, as no one has disproven their right to hold it. I would think there would be a group of people that would officially handle the ranking system (it would be too large not to), yet as Seguleh rarely leave their island though, such unwitnessed contests are few and far between. The only way for this to be acknowledged is to take the mask from the defeated person's corpse. Although why if you met a Seguleh you couldn't just copy their mask then rock up on Seguleh Isle and claim your position is beyond me...

[williamjm]

Mappo's Travelling Sack, on Jan 9 2009, 01:32 PM, said:

Although why if you met a Seguleh you couldn't just copy their mask then rock up on Seguleh Isle and claim your position is beyond me...

They'd probably figure it out the first time a lower-ranked Seguleh challenged you and then discovered that your fighting skills extended to knowing which end of a sword you're meant to stab your opponent with.

[Ain't_It_Just_]

How are we supposed to know that Skinner killed the Second?

[Aptorian]

We know that he didn't. The Seguleh Second is ancient. He remembers a time before the Seguleh left Darujistan to live on Seguleh Island.

[Called-by-the-Voices]

Aptorian, on Jan 10 2009, 11:31 AM, said:

We know that he didn't. The Seguleh Second is ancient. He remembers a time before the Seguleh left Darujistan to live on Seguleh Island.

I'm not sure how that proves that Skin didn't kill the Second... He could be a billion years old, yet killed by Skinner...

[Aptorian]

You're assuming that the 2nd was an ascendant/soletaken/otherwise immortal? Because Skinner is a probably around a hundred and fifty years old, ca. yet the time of the tyrants of darujistan lies much further back in time. Probably millenia.