Malazan Empire: Mafia 34 - The Reality Dysfunction - Malazan Empire

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Mafia 34 - The Reality Dysfunction The land of the living.

#1441 User is offline   Emurlahn 

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Posted 19 November 2008 - 05:32 PM

View PostGalayn Lord, on Nov 19 2008, 05:15 PM, said:

I'm focused on the Cult because they're playing a zero-sum game: When they gain a player, we automatically lose one. Taking down Meanas - like you were so anxious to do, when we knew he was neutralized - would simply buy the Cult another night to recruit while preserving their existing numbers.

ahhh I'd forgotten that thing, I will say that stance definitely made you suspect in my eyes as, not getting rid of of the last remaining killer is basically just stupid as it locks the guard in place and relies on him not getting possessed or recuited, but anyway thats done now and the guard is free to try and start blocking the cult so its all good.

#1442 User is offline   Ruse 

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Posted 19 November 2008 - 05:37 PM

View PostGalayn Lord, on Nov 19 2008, 07:15 PM, said:

Sooo ... the fact that your "reveal" isn't airtight should be taken as evidence of it's veracity? Uh huh.


I've already accepted I am the likeliest lynch candidate for today. If I was scum going for a fake reveal, I would have made it airtight. I put everything I know on thread in the hope that people will believe me. If they dont, then at least when people see my CF they can come back and know I was telling the truth.

View PostGalayn Lord, on Nov 19 2008, 07:15 PM, said:

And the fact that I really want to go after Cult ... should be taken as evidence that I probably am part of the Cult.


Wont be the first time it's happened. It's not the only reason my vote is on you, but it's the easiest point to discredit, so I can see why you're so focused on it.

View PostGalayn Lord, on Nov 19 2008, 07:15 PM, said:

I'm focused on the Cult because they're playing a zero-sum game: When they gain a player, we automatically lose one. Taking down Meanas - like you were so anxious to do, when we knew he was neutralized - would simply buy the Cult another night to recruit while preserving their existing numbers.


Free killer + cult = negative sum. Something noone seemed concerned by yesterday. Everyone was all gung-ho to get me lynched instead. Since that would have had exactly the same consequences for the cult as lynching Meanas (and very possibly a worse one for team inno) I concentrated on the one person I knew was almost certainly scum.

View PostGalayn Lord, on Nov 19 2008, 07:15 PM, said:

This is a pretty blatant attempt to re-write events. I'm not responding to your pressure - my first vote against you came long before you said anything about me, and every other vote has been through consistency, and your increasingly scummy attitude. You know, people can actually go back and re-read both our posts ... and see that you're responding to my pressure, not the other way around.


You're not? How come the only part of my entire post that you bothered to reply to was the bit where I voted you? I'm not responding to your pressure, I'm responding to everyone's. The fact that you are my top suspect makes you think this is all some grand derailment scheme. Cos your vote is the only one that matters, noone else has found me even slightly suspicious? I didnt put any pressure on you earlier in the game because I wasnt that sure, with the huge list of people to choose from, and the obvious Ivets. I have mentioned from day 2? onwards that I think you're scummy, I was just never sure enough to do something about it till now.

You find me scummy, I find you scummy. If we're both innocent then this is soon going to descend into some kind of farce, so I'm hoping you are scum, or that something damning on someone comes up, since if I get you lynched and you're inno, I've propably nailed the coffin on my own team. Especially considering the fact that with my current reputation, there's no way anyone will let me get away with starting a train on an innocent. If it wasnt so close to the end of the game I would actually just let everyone lynch me so that you could get the elephant out the room, trust what I say and go about hunting the actual scum. I was just about to do so yesterday and reveal what I knew about Telas and Liosan (but not my role) when Fener went boom. And if you dont trust that either then fine.

#1443 User is offline   Ruse 

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Posted 19 November 2008 - 05:49 PM

View PostEmurlahn, on Nov 19 2008, 07:27 PM, said:

Well myself I'm inclined to believe Liosan and shadows story about being lovers, although it is possible they could be the original cult still as we're pretty sure that those 2 are probably paired lovers as well, but I'm not too convinced by that so for the moment I'm willing to believe there innocent barring further evidence.
Now Korvalain has become a bit more active which is interesting, is possibly just because he was under pressure for being a low poster and a likely possession target but could also be because he got possessed or he's scum and knows that as we get into the lower numbers of people hiding away with few posts is risky (especially after the disco game :p ) . So I'm still a bit iffy about him and wouldn't be adverse to lynching him to remove the possibility of his being possessed .
Now Ruses reveal is very iffy, it just seems too nice and perfect for me, I also notice that he isn't actually taking credit for any of the possessed kills which is interesting because it means a counter reveal isn't really possible as he hasnt claimed he's done anything.
Now @ruses list of likely people HP and Galain seem likely innocents to me as well for now. Mokra is a possibility as he has basically not done a huge amount and to be honest I can't really remember what trains he's on or who he's been attacking so he is suspicious.
Galayn Lord I'm not too sure about but to me he's one of the people more likely to be guilty left in.


My reveal is nice and perfect? In that it cant be proved either right or wrong I gather? I gave examples of where my role caused me to do the things that I did. Unfortunately that's the best that I could do, since I am atrocious at coding. As far as I know, my role cant kill anyone, so no, I'm not taking credit for the kills. However the fact that people that I have targetted the last two nights both died and were possessed makes me think DiBs might have mislead me. Although he did make a comment about hoping I hit right so he wouldnt have to deal with possessees wanting back in their alts, which made me assume I didnt kill. And I've done lots, but none of it has actually acheived anything. Two finds on innos, one of whom cleared himself anyway, the other then went hounding for my blood. Two failed exorcisms (I'm treating Fener as failed, since that's what the report the following morning said - @the other depossession dude - I got told I wouldnt receive reports if I failed. I'm assuming you did too. Didnt get one for my attempt on Emur, so I assume it's venge's fault I got one for Fener. Please dont out yourself and get me lynched because of that statement), followed by an exorcism which would have been successful, if the damn vig hadnt killed Tennes.

Edit - I'm really hoping whoever had the zero-tau machine also started off as finder, since then he would know I'm telling the truth. And quite possibly cut my list down. Although please dont say anything unless it's gonna definitely nail a cultist. You're still hidden, which is one of the reasons I revealed.

Edit two - I agree with all most of the other stuff. Although I know Liosan was inno day one. So I'm 99.9999% sure they are who they say they are.

This post has been edited by Ruse: 19 November 2008 - 06:01 PM


#1444 User is offline   Hood's Path 

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Posted 19 November 2008 - 05:59 PM

I am here catching up Looks like there might be some discussion, 2 pages to read :p

#1445 User is offline   Emurlahn 

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Posted 19 November 2008 - 06:00 PM

I meant that it fits and explains your actions too well. anyway off for a few hours now

#1446 User is offline   Hood's Path 

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Posted 19 November 2008 - 06:02 PM

@ Ruse... why do you think Galain is CI... this is important to me.

#1447 User is offline   Hood's Path 

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Posted 19 November 2008 - 06:05 PM

Galain I would like your proof that you were innocent at the begining of the game please. I think I might have this won for the Inno's if we play our cards right. I would wait till everyone has checked back in before I say my plan, as I need to make sure some aren't possessed.

#1448 User is offline   Shadow 

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Posted 19 November 2008 - 06:07 PM

Well Ruse, how does your ability work?
You obviously don't put someone in zero-tau, which is what hit Liosan. You said this yourself, your ability is distinctly different.
So, please give us a bit more of a description of the mechanics, in as far as you are allowed.
Zero-tau guards someone for a lot of time, preventing them from speaking, if we can believe Liosan, and when he said what he said, I can confirm that he was still sane and on our side.

So, is your ability 'touch and go'? No other effects on your target? If so, you're far more powerful than the zero-tau is, in my humble opinion. Since you seemingly can dispossess one target a night, is there a max number of changes? What happens to the depossessed? Are any abilities returned? What becomes their alignment? Does it only work on townies, or also on Ivets and cultists, or did you receive no info on that?

For now, I am inclined to believe you. And if your reveal hadn't come, I'd have voted for you. You were my main target for today, so I am at a bit of a loss now.

I do not believe however that Galayn Lord is pressing for your lynch because he is a cultist (he might well be, though).
Let's analyze that part. What would he have gained by it?
The only thing he had to win by not removing Meanas would be to keep the guard focused on Meanas.

Is that such a big advantage? No.
The guard would have been in the dark of who to target next anyway if Meanas was lynched, and not lynching Meanas might mean lynching a cultist instead.
Since cult might also accidentally recruit the guard, Meanas would then have been freed, possibly killing a townie, possibly killing a possessed, possibly killing a cultist (including the recruiter). So, only if the recruiter knew who the guard is/was, and would avoid recruiting him, would keeping Meanas alive help him (or recruiting him on a night where Meanas would be vigged, since guard comes before recruit and kills).

Now, what to deduct from your reveal and previous reveals:

I'm town, Liosan is town, you are town.
Telas at the least started as town (he was my suspect nr 2 for cult leader).
Korv: I don't think he started out as a recruiter, might be a recruit, though.

I think we need to search for those who really, really wanted to off the Ivets first.
For me, 2 people stand out.

HP, because he was adamant that the guard should stay on Meanas and wanted Meanas dead (although he DID produce a list of possible culted people even when we were in the process of debating lynching Meanas), and Galain.

Galain has been singlemindedly hunting Ivets.
Recently, he questioned Liosan's stasis quite a bit (must be a nasty shock to a cult leader, being locked up in stasis, possibly locking out abilities, seeing how Liosan is without them, we have no proof whether it does or does not).
He questioned the lover reveal when it made it in fact easier to identify a culted me. Now, not to increase my own importance, but suppose Liosan would have revealed due to the sudden disappearance of contact between us, and I would have denied he is my partner, saying my partner had died days before, or accused him of being the culted one, who would you lynch first?
It would be a risky play, probably not even the best one, but its pay off could well be an inno lynched, which is what cult will require.

More, I checked out his profile and last 4 posts and there, he is talking about hunting possessed, not about hunting cult, when all of us fear the worst case scenario that out of the 11 people that remain, 6 are town/possessed and 5 are cult and that cult wins if we lynch wrongly tonight.

Besides that, he has managed to be entirely above suspicion aside from my attack on him (I felt he did turn a lot then, as if he had things to hide). He is vocal, never really associated himself with others. Hasn't been symped all that much, and there's not a case on him since day 2.
Due to that, he is the perfect leader to follow for a bunch of recruits who learn his identity and look for clues on who else is recruited, and who to lynch (and before this post, he was nr 3 on the list of people I wouldn't mind lynching, anyway).

vote Galain.

EDIT: I mention 11 people somewhere in this list: should be 10. So the worst town (incl. possessed) vs. cult balance is 5-5, not 6-5!

This post has been edited by Shadow: 19 November 2008 - 06:29 PM


#1449 User is offline   Ruse 

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Posted 19 November 2008 - 06:07 PM

View PostHood's Path, on Nov 19 2008, 08:02 PM, said:

@ Ruse... why do you think Galain is CI... this is important to me.


Not CI. But of the six people left, he's definitely the bottom of my list. No evidence, just really strong gut feel. He's been top poster most of the game (think he still is) and hasnt once said something to make me wonder. I'm pretty confident of my alt-guess, and he just seems inno. That fact in itself gave me a bit of pause (like I said, I'm hesitant to dismiss either) but I'm going to go with my gut here, else I really got nothing.

#1450 User is offline   Shadow 

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Posted 19 November 2008 - 06:08 PM

And that was a cross post with HP and Ruse. I will read their posts, then see if I continue to stand by what I say above this one, or not.

#1451 User is offline   Hood's Path 

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Posted 19 November 2008 - 06:08 PM

@ Ruse, I believe you, for now, unless a vig/depossesor comes forward.

#1452 User is offline   Hood's Path 

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Posted 19 November 2008 - 06:13 PM

@ Shadow, Galain said he can prove he was inno at the start of the game if we asked for proof, I would like to see that proof. If it checks out he is at worst a recruit, in which case, unless we are desperate I would think we would want to go for the head of the monster.

#1453 User is offline   Hood's Path 

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Posted 19 November 2008 - 06:17 PM

For me, the list of possible Head recruiters is Korv, Gaylord, Emur and Mockra.

Like shadow I don't believe that Korv started out as anything except RI which narrows the list down to 3

Gaylord, Emur and Mockra. None have really stepped on toes, none have stuck there neck out. Emur posts a bit more but has been completely under the radar, Mockra, I forget is playing sometimes.. Gay lord has been under attack since day 2 yet has never been lynched.. I would be willing to vote for any of those three

#1454 User is offline   Hood's Path 

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Posted 19 November 2008 - 06:19 PM

Infact look at the Lynch trains on the Ivets, one name is always there and usually always early.

Vote Emurhlan

#1455 User is offline   Shadow 

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Posted 19 November 2008 - 06:24 PM

@HP: Yes, I know. And I don't put a lot of faith in it, anyway.
Here's why.

If it is an ability he has that isn't supported by anyone else who is now a CI: he could very well lie.
If he claims vig (and the sole persons he could claim for are Serc (who died with Rashan and Meanas still alive) and Tennes, but he proclaimed his innocence before Tennes died).
If he says he is a finder and did a find on an Ivet: he could lie, as well. All Ivet are dead, anyway, and no Ivet would counterreveal :p.
If he's going to reveal something that shows he has a partner: as a cult leader, his recruits will lie to confirm his story.

If someone is going to reveal finder for him and proclaim him inno based on a find, even if that person reveals a list with other inno's he already did finds on: we have a cult, so any finds done on people are worthless already the next day. More, the finder could be spot on with everything, could even have been a finder, and yet lie for Galain.

Basically: he can always call on a person he has recruited to support the story, someone who might have been investigated before he/ she was recruited, and turned up inno then. As a cult leader, he'd know who.

Lastly, the statement on his innocence came absolutely out of thin air.

I would love to hear it. He may even sway me. But personally, I think the sole thing that will unrefutably tell the truth, is his CF.

This post has been edited by Shadow: 19 November 2008 - 06:26 PM


#1456 User is offline   Path-Shaper 

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Posted 19 November 2008 - 06:27 PM

it is day 6
you've got something like 26.5 hours left

10 people are still alive (Ruse, Emurlahn, Telas, Hood's Path, Korvalain, Shadow, Liosan, Galain, Mockra, Galayn Lord)
takes 6 votes to lynch, 5 to go to night

1 vote for Ruse (Galayn Lord)
1 vote for Galayn Lord (Ruse)
1 vote for Galain (Shadow)
1 vote for Emurlahn (Hood's Path)

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 19 November 2008 - 06:33 PM

Only someone with this much power could make this many frittatas without breaking any eggs.
0

#1457 User is offline   Hood's Path 

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Posted 19 November 2008 - 06:27 PM

Sorry for the Spam, I keep thinking of things...

Day 1 Train on Anno: Rashan, Emur , Thry, Galain, Serc, Omtose, HP, Shadow, Fener, Gaylord, Mockra, Gamelon

Day 2 Train on Rashan: Telas, Shadow, Galain, Tennes, Meanas, Emur , Fener, Rashan, Ruse, Mockra

Day 3 Train on Rashan: Emur , fener, Gay lord, HP, Mockra, Omtose, Shadow, Tennes, Telas

Day 4 Train on Korv: Liosan, Shadow, HP, Gamelon (removed), Galain

Day 4 Train on Ruse: Telas, Tennes, Meanas, Fener, Emur , gaylord

Day 5 Ruse train part deux: Gaylord, Emur , Shadow, Meanas, Telas


Emur has voted early and often on almost all the trains except Korv's (possible recruit based on day 1-2 activities for sure) Also interesting to note, Gaylord and Emur are usually within 1-2 votes of each other with Gaylord usually following Emur.

Any thoughts on this, or is it all a bunch of rubbish?

#1458 User is offline   Ruse 

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Posted 19 November 2008 - 06:30 PM

View PostShadow, on Nov 19 2008, 08:07 PM, said:

Well Ruse, how does your ability work?
You obviously don't put someone in zero-tau, which is what hit Liosan. You said this yourself, your ability is distinctly different.
So, please give us a bit more of a description of the mechanics, in as far as you are allowed.
Zero-tau guards someone for a lot of time, preventing them from speaking, if we can believe Liosan, and when he said what he said, I can confirm that he was still sane and on our side.

So, is your ability 'touch and go'? No other effects on your target? If so, you're far more powerful than the zero-tau is, in my humble opinion. Since you seemingly can dispossess one target a night, is there a max number of changes? What happens to the depossessed? Are any abilities returned? What becomes their alignment? Does it only work on townies, or also on Ivets and cultists, or did you receive no info on that?

For now, I am inclined to believe you. And if your reveal hadn't come, I'd have voted for you. You were my main target for today, so I am at a bit of a loss now.


The rest of your post is very interesting. I'm definitely curious as to Galains response regarding his inno proof. Didn't notivce the hunting possessed thing. Anyway, gonna reply to the bit for me.

I asked the mods where the line between role reveal and modkill lies. Venge quoted me the 'no name reveals' thing. I sent him and example of what I might want to say and he said I should wait for DiBs. For now I ask that you wait till I get feedback regarding that aspect. If it somehow gets to crunch time before that, I will try give a couple of hints.

My ability is distinctly different, but I feel equal in power. My action only works at night. I can only expel a soul once it has been in the body for at least a day (ie I cant 'block' a possesion the same night it is made), meaning the possessed are given a full day to screw around. I'm assuming ghosts move into an alt at the end of night. Whoever has the zero-tau machine can then effectively block them from having any influence on the game from the second they enter the alt, and expels them at the end of the day, so a 'sortof' block. Also, the fact that the alt was obviously away all day is a bit of evidence that can be used should someone claim to have been possessed and now returned to their alt, something I cant give to the people I save. Meaning that should someone be targetted because of something their possessor said the previous day, I would have to step forward to prove the fact that they were possessed.

I wasnt made aware of any 'charges', since the skill is part of who I am, rather than a machine or something. I must say it makes much more sense with regard to my character - finder didnt fit the description of who I was, changing to exorcist fit much better.

Like I said before, I assumed the original player was returned to their alt if I was successful. Fener and Tellan's deaths have me doubting this a tiny bit.

I havent gotten any information about the people I tried to save. When I asked if I still have a find, I was told no. There was also a confusing statement about my ability not working on cult, which was clarified as me not being the decoder. Or at least, I didnt get corrected when I eventually asked if that was what was originally meant. So I assumed whoever I saved would go back to their original alignment. In short, as far as I know, it works on anyone who is possessed, and the original player keeps their alignment and abilities. But I must admit, I didnt think to ask about a couple of things and will do so now.

#1459 User is offline   Hood's Path 

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Posted 19 November 2008 - 06:31 PM

View PostShadow, on Nov 19 2008, 10:24 AM, said:

@HP: Yes, I know. And I don't put a lot of faith in it, anyway.
Here's why.

If it is an ability he has that isn't supported by anyone else who is now a CI: he could very well lie.
If he claims vig (and the sole persons he could claim for are Serc (who died with Rashan and Meanas still alive) and Tennes, but he proclaimed his innocence before Tennes died).
If he says he is a finder and did a find on an Ivet: he could lie, as well. All Ivet are dead, anyway, and no Ivet would counterreveal :p .
If he's going to reveal something that shows he has a partner: as a cult leader, his recruits will lie to confirm his story.

If someone is going to reveal finder for him and proclaim him inno based on a find, even if that person reveals a list with other inno's he already did finds on: we have a cult, so any finds done on people are worthless already the next day. More, the finder could be spot on with everything, could even have been a finder, and yet lie for Galain.

Basically: he can always call on a person he has recruited to support the story, someone who might have been investigated before he/ she was recruited, and turned up inno then. As a cult leader, he'd know who.

Lastly, the statement on his innocence came absolutely out of thin air.

I would love to hear it. He may even sway me. But personally, I think the sole thing that will unrefutably tell the truth, is his CF.


Fair enough, I wasn't as convinced of his innocence either, but the fact that Ruse was startled me. I even made a few Galain observations a couple days ago, anyway I hope he has irrefutable( sp) proof. wouldn't that be nice :p

#1460 User is offline   Liosan 

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Posted 19 November 2008 - 06:33 PM

on my phone, I'll try to elaborate later. I think Mockra is evil. It's all gut but just think about it and look
at his posting. His patterns through the game and
say he doesn't bother you. I am quite convinced

Mockra

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