[Ruse]

It's not in the role list, it's in the winning conditions. Someone brought it up on day one. Inno can win by depossession.

[Korvalain]

Ahh right ok makes sense, so no jumping around then, I know there was some discussion about it the possession but I was trying to catch up and skimmed and wasn't sure.

[Emurlahn]

@ Ruse cool i missed that entirely

[Galain]

Hmmm, so, Korvalain, I notice you're posting much more often recently....

[Ruse]

While we're talking about possession (nothing better to talk about at night) I think Galain's 'Quinn's BP was related to possession' thing has a lot of merit. So from now on, I am assuming that possession has come into play. The other thing that hasnt been 100% decided on, is whether the dead can choose who they want to possess, or whether they can only possess certain targets. Personally I'm thinking the targets are chosen for them, they just decide who comes back. I think there are several things that point towards this. One, the dead couldn't come back immediately (according to PS, who said we wont have to worry about them for a while). Two, Quinn was linked to possession in the books. He was temporarily possessed, but suppressed it. Assuming Rashan was in fact Quinn, which I think is a pretty safe bet, then his BP may have been indicative of this fact. He may have been given the extra night in which to torture someone, allowing the first possession to take place. Three, the possessed have undisclosed powers. These may include the ability to continue posting in the beyond using their previous alt (so we cant keep an eye on the 'last posted' thing to see who went missing) as well as the ability to torture people, allowing the next possession to take place.

[Galain]

Maybe it's Rashan/Quinn who now decides who gets possessed while all the others decide who gets sent back.

I agree they can't decide BOTH by voting, since it says that even dead they retain their teams and winning conditions, so why would anyone vote to possess on of his own? Ironically, the innos would never get possessed since our dead comrades would block it somehow.

[Ruse]

Galain, on Nov 13 2008, 03:24 PM, said:

Maybe it's Rashan/Quinn who now decides who gets possessed while all the others decide who gets sent back.

I agree they can't decide BOTH by voting, since it says that even dead they retain their teams and winning conditions, so why would anyone vote to possess on of his own? Ironically, the innos would never get possessed since our dead comrades would block it somehow.

I think that's part of the mechanic. I've been sending misinformation to spoilers since day one. If I died, I would continue to muddy the waters in the beyond and try my best to send people who would be easy to spot back, convince the possessors (we need a shorter term for that) to torture people I thought were scum etc. (for now I'm assuming that's how it works) I doubt the dead Ivets would reveal who their comrade is, and noone knows who the cult are at this point, so the chances of an inno being possessed are pretty high methinks. Still I hope the dead innos are doing their best to sabotage anyone who comes back.

[Ruse]

Hello? Where is everyone? Get you night actions in people. Anyone want to pick some holes in my theories?

[Galain]

Ruse, on Nov 13 2008, 03:41 PM, said:

Hello? Where is everyone? Get you night actions in people. Anyone want to pick some holes in my theories?

Your theories suck

[Fener]

Well that's a relief - I almost expected Rashan to not die again. On the fly, I'd like us to take a look at Meanas today, anyone else you guys want to take a look at?

Haven't read your theories yet, Ruse, will go back and read more carefully now.

[Shadow]

Hmm. My theory on possession:

We know that the teams continue to play in the Beyond against each other. Once they come back to here, they're a new faction, right (check wiki; the returned wanted to free the ones still in the beyond, I think)?

Now, how does the mechanic work? A body needs to be prepared, that suggests the here and now.
A soul must come from the beyond to possess that body. That's up there.

Body + new soul = new member of a possessed faction.

So, we may have a torturer here. And a torturer =/= killer, or at the least, if they are the same, you can't kill a guy and then invite another into that body.

Or maybe lynching counts as torturing, it's a messy affair after all, and that would explain Rashan getting possessed.
So, we can establish we don't know what happens here, or at the least, that I don't know what happens. Is every body suited? Or only specially prepared people?
(by the by, I don't expect that only town can be possessed. Laton is possessed according to wiki, as is Quinn, only he is such a bastard that he supressed the invading soul).

Let's see what we can establish about 'up there'. A voting mechanic seems the most likely way.
Winners select someone to return. Vote someone of your own faction to go back, and you lose strength in the beyond. Vote someone of another faction, and you keep strength. Now, the problem is, sending someone back creates a member of a new faction here in the game topic. So why would you vote for someone to return if it does not help your team?

There must be some incentive there to do so. Maybe the people in the Beyond don't even have a choice, and it is the torturer who decides when and where a soul is called down, and all the beyond provides/ must provide per order, is a soul.

My head spins

[Galain]

No, seriously, I agree with your general scheme on how things are working up there.

I'm wondering now how often they can send back someone, I'm guessing it would be more often/easier than for the cult since they were both expected to start later in the game, and need a total possession of the players in order to win, not just majority.

I've been babbling enough and I think my style is quite obvious, hopefully that will give them trouble if they try to take me over.

[Fener]

Shadow, on Nov 13 2008, 03:08 PM, said:

Let's see what we can establish about 'up there'. A voting mechanic seems the most likely way.
Winners select someone to return. Vote someone of your own faction to go back, and you lose strength in the beyond. Vote someone of another faction, and you keep strength. Now, the problem is, sending someone back creates a member of a new faction here in the game topic. So why would you vote for someone to return if it does not help your team?

There must be some incentive there to do so. Maybe the people in the Beyond don't even have a choice, and it is the torturer who decides when and where a soul is called down, and all the beyond provides/ must provide per order, is a soul.

My head spins

Well, the game is decided here, not in the beyond, right? So if you're right, losing strength in the beyond doesn't matter so much except that you might not be able to send someone else of your own team.

But does it really matter how it happens? All we can really do is look for changes in posting styles, and like Ruse, sending disinformation - but even that is dangerous, it seems to me.


Edit: spelling

This post has been edited by Fener: 13 November 2008 - 02:29 PM

[Shadow]

Fener, on Nov 13 2008, 09:29 AM, said:

Shadow, on Nov 13 2008, 03:08 PM, said:

Let's see what we can establish about 'up there'. A voting mechanic seems the most likely way.
Winners select someone to return. Vote someone of your own faction to go back, and you lose strength in the beyond. Vote someone of another faction, and you keep strength. Now, the problem is, sending someone back creates a member of a new faction here in the game topic. So why would you vote for someone to return if it does not help your team?

There must be some incentive there to do so. Maybe the people in the Beyond don't even have a choice, and it is the torturer who decides when and where a soul is called down, and all the beyond provides/ must provide per order, is a soul.

My head spins

Well, the game is decided here, not in the beyond, right? So if you're right, losing strength in the beyond doesn't matter so much except that you might not be able to send someone else of your own team.

But does it really matter how it happens? All we can really do is look for changes in posting styles, and like Ruse, sending disinformation - but even that is dangerous, it seems to me.


Edit: spelling

It doesn't matter for the result here. And yes, here seems to matter the most as the game is won or lost here.
Also, our goal when dealing with the possessors is straightforward: we get someone from the beyond, we don't want that, so we have to zap that person with ghost buster goo or something.

But I do wonder how play is organized there if you play for your faction, and what the benefits are for them. Otherwise, if there are no advantages or goals, all they'd do is sit on their hands and stare out of the window, no? Somehow, there's a faction switch and it is caused here or there, also because you go into the Beyond with your faction sticker on your forehead in the CF, and who can beat Town up there, anyway, in a vote?

It might be just so that the answer is nevertheless pretty important to us.

[Thyrllan]

In very briefly, haven't completely read up yet, but will be back in 90 mins or so to continue. Just wanted to say FUCK YEAH!

Path-Shaper, on Nov 13 2008, 12:06 PM, said:

Rashan stood up, the damage to his body repairing before their eyes, his face split in a manical grin.

This, combined with the red lights in the previous day end scene, tells me that Rashan had been possessed when we tried to lynch him first time, and as Quinn he was BP to it and got to keep his personality.

Anyway, back in a bit

[Fener]

Shadow, on Nov 13 2008, 03:37 PM, said:

It doesn't matter for the result here. And yes, here seems to matter the most as the game is won or lost here.
Also, our goal when dealing with the possessors is straightforward: we get someone from the beyond, we don't want that, so we have to zap that person with ghost buster goo or something.

But I do wonder how play is organized there if you play for your faction, and what the benefits are for them. Otherwise, if there are no advantages or goals, all they'd do is sit on their hands and stare out of the window, no? Somehow, there's a faction switch and it is caused here or there, also because you go into the Beyond with your faction sticker on your forehead in the CF, and who can beat Town up there, anyway, in a vote?

It might be just so that the answer is nevertheless pretty important to us.

Yes, the answer is important, but how do we go about getting the answer? Do you think the possessed somehow get info that they can share if we unpossess them?

[Ruse]

Yeah, I agree, there's no way we'll know how the mechanics of the beyond work. But it gives us something to puzzle over while we wait for day. And it might help to figure out what mechincs are in play here, since they will be affecting us. Countering them will be very similar to countering the cult, I feel. Even one possession a day would be damn hard to stop, so if that's the case, there has to be only one or two people who can cause a possession. Both possessed and cult would need to be (realistically) counterable, but still be able to be able to win. That's a pretty fine line in terms of game design.

[Galain]

I fear "unpossession" will just bring back the old player playing the alt, who won't have more info.

[Shadow]

@ Fener. I don't know, and I don't know what to think. But I think not.

I think that, when the possessing spirit is excorsized, the original owner comes back in, none the wiser (cause he/she wouldn't get access to the Beyond). He's just on standbye until either his body is destroyed, or the possessing spirit is sent away, I guess.

I think the dead get information when they go into the Beyond that is relevant to their faction and that encourages them to play on. They then see all our truths, half-truths and lies and use them when coming back. There's a gap in between that I can't fill.

[Ruse]

Fener, on Nov 13 2008, 04:42 PM, said:

Shadow, on Nov 13 2008, 03:37 PM, said:

It doesn't matter for the result here. And yes, here seems to matter the most as the game is won or lost here.
Also, our goal when dealing with the possessors is straightforward: we get someone from the beyond, we don't want that, so we have to zap that person with ghost buster goo or something.

But I do wonder how play is organized there if you play for your faction, and what the benefits are for them. Otherwise, if there are no advantages or goals, all they'd do is sit on their hands and stare out of the window, no? Somehow, there's a faction switch and it is caused here or there, also because you go into the Beyond with your faction sticker on your forehead in the CF, and who can beat Town up there, anyway, in a vote?

It might be just so that the answer is nevertheless pretty important to us.

Yes, the answer is important, but how do we go about getting the answer? Do you think the possessed somehow get info that they can share if we unpossess them?

I doubt that, since as far as I can tell they are simply locked out of their alts. Who gets possessed when could give us some clues, but I'm not keeping my hopes up. I guess we just keep lynching people who look suspicious till we hit the ed of game scene. Hopefully we play well enough (our scum sensors seem to be pretty well calibrated this game ) to win, but I doubt anyone will have the mechanics pegged.

Also, PS is here, let's hope night ends soon