[Hood's Path]

Tennes, on Nov 14 2008, 12:14 AM, said:

So the case against him is he didn't place votes because of a fake internet issues?
I must just say thats rather convenient if you think about it.
I don't see why he would fake something like that though, especially with the rashan lynch, if i where rashans partner and there was a reveal i would have been one of the first guys to place my vote.
I think that if we do lynch meanas and he comes up inno we should have a good look at the guys trying to get a cheap lynch out of a someone having net problems.

For me its not just about fake internet issues... I made a case on day 1, also, Why the hell would he drop in with 3 hours to go, when a train was breaking away towards Ano, plase a random L-10 vote on Tellan and split. I agree since it seems overtly scummish I can't imagine a real scum would be stupid enough to do it, but for now, it is enough for me to place a vote. It's not really the fact that he didn't come back, but why place the vote in the first place if it wasn't going anywhere.

[Fener]

So attention is on Ruse and Shadow. I am still not satisfied regarding Meanas, but I'm willing to hold off on that at the moment because I think the Ruse case is more interesting. Ruse's post after Thyrllan left us hit me strongly, and I find it weird that an inno would have that attitude. That coupled with Ruse not really taking a stand on anything despite his many posts, makes me smell scum.

I'm not certain about Shadow's reveal. It could be true and it could be a skilled scum making himself look like an inno. I wouldn't disregard the possibility that it's a possession case either. It needs to be investigated, except I don't know how to do that?

Since I pretty much agree with the case on Ruse I will

vote Ruse


Lastly some of you have expressed an opinion that my posting style have changed. I strongly disagree with this. Some posts might be longer and more serious, but that is because the tempo of the game has changed, not because my posting style is different.

[Fener]

I had less time than I thought. I will be back in about 5 or 6 hours.

[Telas]

The Ruse train grows.

Happy Telas is happy.

[Mockra]

Hello.
Interesting reveal.
Not sure I believe it, and, as says, it could well be cult, and say he comes to L-1, another cult claims his lover. Not the hardest thing to pull off.

The other thing is, someones got their maths wrong.

There were 3 kills night one. One vig. NOT TWO KILLS. We have to remember that Vorax died for investigating rashan. There is not evidence that ivets can kill seperately. I reckon they get one between them.
Then there was 1 kill night two.
Then one night three.

Now, if Shadow vigged Omtose, whats happened to the ivet kill? Im not going to assume that we've got rid of them. Same as im not going to assume we hit original cult. The OP suggests otherwise, in ivets case, and simple probability suggests otherwise for the cult(im guessing that the cult has a few members by now). Assuming things just leads to carelessness, and getting hit by something we didnt predict.

Now:

If there is a guard, DO NOT REVEAL.

Even if shadow is innocent, quite possible, even likely, and you guard the same tonight, revealing is a risk.
Why?

Because killer witholds, you reveal, we lynch whoever it was, killer knows who you are.
If you keep guarding him, however, it keeps us safe, with less risk.

[Mockra]

On the point of Ruse:

It seems there isnt a lot more to it that his(admittedly suspicious) comment about Thyrllans modkill.
The thing about him not being on Ano, is just silly.
The other thing people are pressing him for, is his playing style(if i've read correctly). Now ive only browsed, so could anyone quickly summarise what it is about him, or direct me to a post/page?

[Hood's Path]

Ruse, on Nov 14 2008, 02:01 AM, said:

So who are the chief cult suspects at this point? Meanas doesnt really fit the bill, cult would have voted for Ano. Galayn Lord's name keeps popping up, but he hasnt done anything overtly suspicious. On the flip side of that there's Gam, but I'm more inclined to vote GL. Korv is incredibly hard to get a read on because he's never here. Makes him a very likely possession target as well. Tennes is CI, which makes him a likely choice for recruitment, but we want to hit the original members, not recruits. Fener maybe? Emur has also been pretty much under the radar, he seemed in a bit of a hurry to have Rashan lynched on day three, but that might have just been frustration.

Right now my chief list of suspects for cult is

Korv: Quiet early, starting to post a bit more mid game. Classic scum tactic. (plus I am following Lioasians gut here..its been great so far )

Mockra: Really hasn't said to much controversial. Laying low.

Ruse: The balance for the quiet cult. He puts himself out there Makes tons of observations. Made a weak case. Granted this could also be Inno play, but Telas's gut has been right on as well.

Fener: (recruit) This is just a hunch and my own gut idea(which is usually wrong ergo^^ folowing other ppls guts ) (sorry Fener )

I still think Meanas is the 3rd Ivet

[Mockra]

Sheep .

Im not deliberately laying low, and have given my thoughts on stuff, when ive had time.
I agree with fener being a bit suspect(in fact, I think I pointed him out first, or at least close to). For, somewhat ironically I suppose, laying low.
Im not sure about meanas.
Looks like im gonna need to read up.
*sigh*

[Hood's Path]

Shadow, on Nov 14 2008, 06:39 AM, said:

Time to lift the veil a bit.

I'm a housewife living in town. By day, I wait for my rugged husband to come back, by night, we can talk.
He mentioned a suspicion of Omtose, so I set up the frameworks to get a decent case on the guy and mention already that there was some form of suspicion on him.
He could then later jump on the bandwagon and help out with additional arguments and replies, where I would be off on one of those Galain-like pursuits I tend to make . Basic teamwork for lovers, as you can see.

What my hubby didn't know (and no, I'm not going to mention HIS ingame name even though that seems allowed, see Tennes giving the name of Vorax, who was a player), we're both building covers in spoiler heaven and this may influence it: I want him safe), was that a lovely lady stopped by on night 2 and passed me some mojo-juice: this gave me a one-time vig. She should be able to confirm the fact that I was able to vig because of her, should she be so inclined. Not giving the name to stop fake claims.

So, I decided to speed things up. I knew Ruse had the same suspicions that I and my partner had. But we didn't have a clearcut case, that would needed buidling, which would mean a full re-read, for which I had no time. And even then, since nothing stood out the first time, well, we might end up empty handed anyway and have wasted a full day.

In such a case, a vig is VERY useful. Like I established before, we're right on track and ahead of schedule, so I felt I could gamble with a fellow townie's life. So, I wrote down the name Omtose and sent it to the mods. He turned up as a cultist, and it was the night's only kill.
That last part is, for me, the most interesting and the reason why I write this post.

Either we got rid of all the Ivets, or one is holding his kill (what for?) or the killer was guarded.
Lots of possibilities still, but if you are a guard, you definately did something right, and I want you to know that. This could be very useful information in determining who the last killer (if there still is one, I expect there is) might be. I'm not calling for a reveal fest: just to consider blocking last night's target tonight again.

O.O well well well. Just got to this gem. Initial reaction is to believe him. It makes sense to me, shadow has never struck me as scummy infact, I basically only remember his fight with Galain I think?

[Hood's Path]

One thing I think is worth noting:

1. If shadow is telling the truth
2. A guard did do his job

It would stand to reason that Meanas might be the 3rd Ivet. He has been under suspicion since day 1. and Was a prime suspect day 2 till the Tennes reveal. Wouldn't it make sense for the guard to be guarding Meanas? I know its all speculation, but I am generally against reveals. But its a thought

[Mockra]

Yeah, doesnt strike me as scum.
He really had no need to reveal it.

However:

We have to be careful, cause if he's cult, another cult could back him up, and from there, both could well be CI for the rest of the game.

[Hood's Path]

Meanas, on Nov 14 2008, 07:23 AM, said:

@Shadow, that is one hell of a convoluted reveal and I hope some evidence comes along to back it up soon..

I am really not surprised you don't put stock in the reveal.

[Hood's Path]

Meanas, on Nov 14 2008, 07:50 AM, said:

The thing that nags at me about Shadows reveal is that if Shadow is cult as are his friends, they can back this story up and killing of one of their own makes sense to protect themselves and help build up this reveal. Also the theory that the cult can only recruit once every other night makes no sense to me. So as I see it they have the number to pull this sort of thing off.

Now this is just a thought and as such I would like feed back on it, maybe I have miscounted or something, but I reckon the cult have the numbers to pull this off.

I will give you this. The only problem is this. If he was cult and used his partners to back him up... If shadow ever gets lynched and comes up Cult...Guess where we go next. That would be a Suicidal gambit by the cult to place 50-75% of your numbers out there for the lynching.


As I have it now

14 players

1 Ivet
4 Cult
1 Possesed
8 Town

This assumes 1 possesion per night and that The red light on Quin was the first possesion. A lot of supposition, but its what I am going on right now.

[Hood's Path]

Fener, on Nov 14 2008, 09:06 AM, said:

So attention is on Ruse and Shadow. I am still not satisfied regarding Meanas, but I'm willing to hold off on that at the moment because I think the Ruse case is more interesting. Ruse's post after Thyrllan left us hit me strongly, and I find it weird that an inno would have that attitude. That coupled with Ruse not really taking a stand on anything despite his many posts, makes me smell scum.

I'm not certain about Shadow's reveal. It could be true and it could be a skilled scum making himself look like an inno. I wouldn't disregard the possibility that it's a possession case either. It needs to be investigated, except I don't know how to do that?

Since I pretty much agree with the case on Ruse I will

vote Ruse


Lastly some of you have expressed an opinion that my posting style have changed. I strongly disagree with this. Some posts might be longer and more serious, but that is because the tempo of the game has changed, not because my posting style is different.

I don't think your style of posting has changed...just the way you approach the game. I have nothing to back this up. Like I said its just my gut Which probably means you are RI lol

[Shadow]

Telas, on Nov 14 2008, 11:58 AM, said:

Meanas, on Nov 14 2008, 03:50 PM, said:

The thing that nags at me about Shadows reveal is that if Shadow is cult as are his friends, they can back this story up and killing of one of their own makes sense to protect themselves and help build up this reveal. Also the theory that the cult can only recruit once every other night makes no sense to me. So as I see it they have the number to pull this sort of thing off.

Now this is just a thought and as such I would like feed back on it, maybe I have miscounted or something, but I reckon the cult have the numbers to pull this off.

Actually hadn't thought of this possibility. It would be incredibly sneaky and hard to pull off. But just more reason to wach him.

Warning about the weekend. We can't just let our play tail off, from PS announcement I get the impression that we still have limited time left in the day and so need to keep working on a lynch.

It could be possible. But a few circumstances would have to accomodate that:
1) I needed to know on beforehand that Omtose was cult to pull of this play as an alibi. My partners would be have to be willing to confirm this story, and that means I either have to mislead them, or they are in on the deal.
Since I doubt every cultist learns every other members identity, that would mean that I'm one of the original cultists = a suspected cult leader/ recruiter. Me doing this would then be incredibly gutsy, as said, and if confirmation was needed, I'd out several other cultists as well, and you might wish to test my words by lynching me or one of them instead. Ouch.

Let's assume you're right though. I'm a cult leader, one of the two initial cultists.
There are a few others reasons left why I personally then would not fake reveal.

1) it is day 4 now, 3 nights have passed.
That would mean that with 1 recruit a night and losing Omtose, cult would be 4 out of 14, which aren't such good odds yet to sacrifice a cultist, also because there has been no fire whatsoever on Omtose or me beforehand. Chances are after all that future lynches will now start bringing up cultists as well, as the cult grows and player numbers drop.

Add to that that I, as a possible recruiter (hence knowing Omtose) put myself on the line.
By vigging Omtose as an alibi, all I bought the cult is 1 day, since I encourage roled players to stick to their targets of last night.
Not to mention that even when all listened to me today + tonight, I would still be a prime target for finders, guards and vigs after that, agree? Both finds and vigs would lead to my demise. It would then be all down to the second recruiter to pick things up. That's a lot of trust to put in 1 player when you still could have 2.

2) if you add a bit of maths: the cult now lost Omtose, but gains a recruit tonight. Even numbers, but a day's lost (in which finds can be done, possessions can occur, etc).
I may be guarded, investigated or vigged tonight, and I certainly will not last more than two days without a single one of those actions targeting me.
So, tomorrow's recruit would compensate for my calculated loss. Cult would be near stagnant for two days and only gain on town due to the dropping number of players... were I cult, I would not risk it.

3) I was preparing the ground for a lynch on Omtose yesterday night, like I said I wanted to do since he featured on my partner's scumlist. Straight after my initial comment, Ruse jumped on. Now, suppose I could have driven Omtose to a lynch today, would starting that train on Omtose not give me the same alledged 'he can't be cult' immunity, with far less publicity, hassle and chance to be called out on it? And if it failed, I could have vigged him then, and add double credits to my story.

4) Regardless of what kind of role I could have in the cult: I'm vocal.
If I'm a cultist, calling attention to myself like this will result in drawing attention. It will mean that I'll be doubted. That means that, for the cult to maintain a position from which it could steer/ direct through sheer volume of posts, another cultist has to take over the vocal role in my stead, since I'll be doubted, or cult will lose some control over the direction of play. If they already have another vocal player, they'd still lose a vocal guy. Once again, not the best play that's possible.

Lastly: suppose I was not the one who vigged him, but claimed it nonetheless.
There hasn't been a counterclaim yet, has there? Most players have been online though.
And if there's going to be one, I hope you'll lynch both of us claimants... that alone would be enough to deter me from fake revealing (were I a cultist).

So, all in all, were I a culted vig, I'd stay silent instead of pulling off this reveal.

And now, I'm going to read the Ruse case.

[Hood's Path]

SO shadow, assuming what you say is true. You must believe there was a guard and that no NK happened on the night of Omtos's death. Would you agree that Meanas would be the most likely source of a guard? This is the last I will speak against Meanas as I seem to be beating a dead horse. If he comes up inno I am sure to be looked at. I know others aren't quite as sold as I am. Anyway, I will now focus my meager efforts on cultists... ugh, where to start.

[Liosan]

Korvalain, on Nov 14 2008, 03:48 PM, said:

Alrighty, caught up with the thread there now after my initial skim.
Looking over whats come up, I am obviously still keen on Meanas, since he's around I'm looking forward to hearing his defence.

There is the stuff on Ruse as well, its interesting, but I don't think its particularly conclusive and I don't really see myself casting a vote on it. A lot of people seemed to bring up Galayn Lord for just gut feeling as well. But is there anything actually on him? I think if I can find the time it might be worth a reread.

At this point I'm probably going to be voting Meanas, I think its the strongest thing we can go on at the moment.

A couple people brought up me up as well. I can't say I disagree really, I apologise, I have been busy and haven't had a chance to post the first few days as much as I would have liked really one or two was the best I could do. I managed a little yesterday and over the weekend I will hopefully have a little more time and be able to post more. I am not trying to hide away, being the bottom ranked poster is hardly the best play to try and hide, I am just busy sadly.

Here we have Korvalain jump onto the safest case available. He brushes onto the other two potential lynches too, but doesn't really say anything about them.

Korvalain, on Nov 14 2008, 05:04 PM, said:

Galain, on Nov 14 2008, 03:45 PM, said:

I went back to check, and what the hell? No-one was pressuring Omtose. Forget drinking, Ano was smoking something good too.

Only Telas gave him some heat, but Telas started the game with a shoe clenched in his teeth and a serious case of The Piss.

edit: cross-post, some heavy stuff to read, awesome!

I have also gone back and reread. I think Omtose was complaining about being faked symped by Ano or something.
Looking back its obvious to see a Rashan/Ano link. Also it strikes me that Omtose was cult right from day 1 from the reread. He came across as a little scummy, was quite lynch happy.

@Shadow, interesting reveal sounds believable off the bat to me.

This leads me to a question though. Aren't we down a kill for two nights in a row now though?
Night 1 we had 3 kills and two Ivet left, and we know one was a Vig so we can presume 2 killers.
Night 2, we had 1 kill which was Serc, but we failed to lynch Rashan so 2 killers were active still.
Night 3, one kill and its the cult and turns out to be Vig? Down to one Ivet, so wheres the NKl gone?

If the guard went for the same person twice in a row, there's a chance they may have guarded the killer.
A number of other possible ways of course, healer etc.. but its interesting.

Here he lists up what happened, but has managed somehow to miss half the information of Tennes' reveal.

Korvalain, on Nov 14 2008, 05:40 PM, said:

For me its reasonably believable off the bat and happy to run with it for now. If your going to lie and claim Vig, why make up a story which involves having two people able to cover for you? Both of who are still alive. Even if the partner or lady dies overnight we still have the other to back up his story.

@Meanas, yeah thats what I wanted to hear you defend against. After the reread I do see Anoms RPing a bit so your post does make some sense... starting to believe you a bit, but the trouble is I'm not sure who else to go for.

Anyway, I am off for the night, will be back in 8 hours or so and see how things are going.

And Meanas answers and Korvalain immediately backs down. No confrontation seems to be his mantra.

I quoted these three simply to show the gist of Korvalaian's playing style. This is how he's been moving through the game so far. He lists up what's going on, takes a few opinions presented already and says maybe, and then disappears without a trace. Now, failing to realise this dog was killed upon targeting Quinn shows he's not paying that much attention, but that's always easier when you're a killer as then you know generally what you need to know in regards to the other players..

Naturally, he might just be busy, but I've been busy too yet I've confronted some people and presented some opinions of my own. Korvalain seems to do none of that.

... when that is said. Ruse is more than a little iffy too, so I will have no problems changing my vote. I think however that Korvalain is the better option.

[Mockra]

Yes but shadow, if you're not a vig, the only person able to confirm that you're not would be the killer. If you're lying, thats an ivet.
Im sure he'd be willing to step up to counter claim, wouldnt he?

Having said that, I do actually believe you're inno, but im against assuming anything, or CI'ing anyone.

[Liosan]

As for Shadow's reveal. I'm going to buy it for now. Fake-revealing lover is difficult and way too risky. Not to mention that if Shadow was cult, he might force two other cultists to reveal themselves and it's not that far from there to a tripple cult lynch.

[Hood's Path]

Liosan, on Nov 14 2008, 10:00 AM, said:

Korvalain, on Nov 14 2008, 03:48 PM, said:

Alrighty, caught up with the thread there now after my initial skim.
Looking over whats come up, I am obviously still keen on Meanas, since he's around I'm looking forward to hearing his defence.

There is the stuff on Ruse as well, its interesting, but I don't think its particularly conclusive and I don't really see myself casting a vote on it. A lot of people seemed to bring up Galayn Lord for just gut feeling as well. But is there anything actually on him? I think if I can find the time it might be worth a reread.

At this point I'm probably going to be voting Meanas, I think its the strongest thing we can go on at the moment.

A couple people brought up me up as well. I can't say I disagree really, I apologise, I have been busy and haven't had a chance to post the first few days as much as I would have liked really one or two was the best I could do. I managed a little yesterday and over the weekend I will hopefully have a little more time and be able to post more. I am not trying to hide away, being the bottom ranked poster is hardly the best play to try and hide, I am just busy sadly.

Here we have Korvalain jump onto the safest case available. He brushes onto the other two potential lynches too, but doesn't really say anything about them.

Korvalain, on Nov 14 2008, 05:04 PM, said:

Galain, on Nov 14 2008, 03:45 PM, said:

I went back to check, and what the hell? No-one was pressuring Omtose. Forget drinking, Ano was smoking something good too.

Only Telas gave him some heat, but Telas started the game with a shoe clenched in his teeth and a serious case of The Piss.

edit: cross-post, some heavy stuff to read, awesome!

I have also gone back and reread. I think Omtose was complaining about being faked symped by Ano or something.
Looking back its obvious to see a Rashan/Ano link. Also it strikes me that Omtose was cult right from day 1 from the reread. He came across as a little scummy, was quite lynch happy.

@Shadow, interesting reveal sounds believable off the bat to me.

This leads me to a question though. Aren't we down a kill for two nights in a row now though?
Night 1 we had 3 kills and two Ivet left, and we know one was a Vig so we can presume 2 killers.
Night 2, we had 1 kill which was Serc, but we failed to lynch Rashan so 2 killers were active still.
Night 3, one kill and its the cult and turns out to be Vig? Down to one Ivet, so wheres the NKl gone?

If the guard went for the same person twice in a row, there's a chance they may have guarded the killer.
A number of other possible ways of course, healer etc.. but its interesting.

Here he lists up what happened, but has managed somehow to miss half the information of Tennes' reveal.

Korvalain, on Nov 14 2008, 05:40 PM, said:

For me its reasonably believable off the bat and happy to run with it for now. If your going to lie and claim Vig, why make up a story which involves having two people able to cover for you? Both of who are still alive. Even if the partner or lady dies overnight we still have the other to back up his story.

@Meanas, yeah thats what I wanted to hear you defend against. After the reread I do see Anoms RPing a bit so your post does make some sense... starting to believe you a bit, but the trouble is I'm not sure who else to go for.

Anyway, I am off for the night, will be back in 8 hours or so and see how things are going.

And Meanas answers and Korvalain immediately backs down. No confrontation seems to be his mantra.

I quoted these three simply to show the gist of Korvalaian's playing style. This is how he's been moving through the game so far. He lists up what's going on, takes a few opinions presented already and says maybe, and then disappears without a trace. Now, failing to realise this dog was killed upon targeting Quinn shows he's not paying that much attention, but that's always easier when you're a killer as then you know generally what you need to know in regards to the other players..

Naturally, he might just be busy, but I've been busy too yet I've confronted some people and presented some opinions of my own. Korvalain seems to do none of that.

... when that is said. Ruse is more than a little iffy too, so I will have no problems changing my vote. I think however that Korvalain is the better option.

Good case, and as Korv is my #1 Cult suspect I would be willing to move my vote off meanas to get a Korv Lynch. if and only if our guard does what he did last night. (yes I am choosing to believe shadow's reveal)