Malazan Empire: Advance review of R. Scott Bakker's The Judging Eye - Malazan Empire

Jump to content

  • 8 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Last »
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Advance review of R. Scott Bakker's The Judging Eye **Spoilers** School of the Scarlet Spoilers

#41 User is offline   Yellow 

  • Sick and Tired
  • Group: High House Mafia
  • Posts: 1,703
  • Joined: 22-February 05

Posted 25 January 2009 - 10:46 AM

View PostWerthead, on Dec 14 2008, 03:30 PM, said:

Cnaiur isn't in this:

Spoiler



Spoiler

Don't fuck with the Culture.
0

#42 User is offline   The Tyrant Lizard 

  • First Sword
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 639
  • Joined: 27-January 07

Posted 13 March 2009 - 10:37 PM

I found the beginning hard to get into, in a way it felt like I was being dictated to. I hated the kids too and hope to fuck big bad Maithanet knows what the little shits are up to, because surely he must. the final scene with the Scalpoi was...AWESOME. It is possibly the best scene I've ever read about and is truely compelling reading. That last part makes the book outstanding.
Spoiler

I want to die the way my dad died, peacefully in his sleep. Not screaming in terror like his passengers.
0

#43 User is offline   Morgoth 

  • executor emeritus
  • Group: High House Mafia
  • Posts: 11,448
  • Joined: 24-January 03
  • Location:the void

Posted 14 March 2009 - 11:23 AM

I loved this book as and it has made me completly revise my opinion of Kellhus. I've started re-reading the original trilogy and I'm quite sure he's gone insane. I'll make a full post explaining my thoughts when i've finised ttt
Take good care to keep relations civil
It's decent in the first of gentlemen
To speak friendly, Even to the devil
0

#44 User is offline   polishgenius 

  • Heart of Courage
  • Group: LHTEC
  • Posts: 5,322
  • Joined: 16-June 05

Posted 15 March 2009 - 12:48 AM

View PostMorgoth, on Mar 14 2009, 11:23 AM, said:

I've started re-reading the original trilogy and I'm quite sure he's gone insane.


I'm pretty sure that
Spoiler

I can't carry it for you, but I can carry you.
0

#45 User is offline   Yellow 

  • Sick and Tired
  • Group: High House Mafia
  • Posts: 1,703
  • Joined: 22-February 05

Posted 15 March 2009 - 08:35 AM

The following is answering the above post, but I can't be arsed with the silly black spoiler tags. So...


**SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER**


I think the "what came before" bit is not meant to be taken literally. I might be wrong, but it seems to tell events almost from the narrative's point of view.

It talks of Fane:

Quote

Fane, the self-proclaimed Prophet of the so-called Solitary God.


But it does not state whether or not Fane was truly what he claimed to be. In fact, this section is written almost from the POV of the Inrithi, since that is the subject being dealt with at the time. The language used to describe Fane (i.e. "self-proclaimed") and his Solitary God ("so-called") is the kind of language a sceptical Inrithi would use (without the swear words).

Other sections deal with events from other points of view as well. When it says that Kellhus went mad, this section is being told from Moenghus's narrative, and of course that was the exact conclusion that Mo came to when he met Kellhus: that he went mad. But this is still up for grabs in the main text. We don't know.

The part about Cnauir is also ambiguous, because it is told not from Cnauir's POV, but actually from something close to Kellhus's POV.

Quote

But he had made one mistake. He had allowed Cnauir urs Skiotha, a Scylvendi chieftain who had accompanied him on his trek to the Three Seas, to learn too much of his true nature. Before his death, the barbarian revealed these truths to Drusas Achamian, who had harboured heart-breaking suspicions of his own.


Now, it is completely ambiguous in TTT whether Cnauir died or not - he says just before the end that he plans to create one last swazond, at his throat, but he doesn't actually do it before the scene blacks out. In fact, he sees Serwe's/the skin spy's face, just as Mo's last sorcerous light disappears. I think it entirely possible that the Consult, who had been fucking with his head for the entire book, would use Serwe's face to keep him on-track, doing whatever they wanted of him.

However, what seems to be clear is that none of the other characters saw him alive again. They believe him to be dead, and as such the narrative truth is that he is dead. But he might not be.

In my opinion, the "what came before" section is the truth from the narrative's point of view, but not necessarily the absolute truth. It is what the world believes has happened, and should not be taken at face value. I think Bakker could have one or two surprises left yet. Like I say, I might be wrong... in which case the surprise is for me :p

Do I think Kellhus has gone mad? Yeah, probably. But I think it's going to be more complicated than that. The third series of books has not been named because apparently it'd be a massive spoiler. I've long held the suspicion that it will be called "The No-God", as I think this is what is going to happen to Kellhus. The names of the series suggest a progression in Kellhus's position. The Prince of Nothing. The Aspect Emperor. Something higher than aspect-emperor.

If he doesn't become the No-God (and yeah, I have no idea how he would become the No-God... but the similarities between him flying at the end of TTT and the No-God's Whirlwind are very strong), then I have a suspicion that it will be revealed that he is actually divine after all. Maybe the series will be called The One God or somesuch.

But yeah, he's still probably batshit insane. Doesn't mean he's not right, though! :p

This post has been edited by Yellow: 15 March 2009 - 08:42 AM

Don't fuck with the Culture.
0

#46 User is offline   Cause 

  • Elder God
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 5,917
  • Joined: 25-December 03
  • Location:NYC

Posted 15 March 2009 - 08:55 AM

Spoiler

0

#47 User is offline   Yellow 

  • Sick and Tired
  • Group: High House Mafia
  • Posts: 1,703
  • Joined: 22-February 05

Posted 15 March 2009 - 09:03 AM

View PostCause, on Mar 15 2009, 08:55 AM, said:

Spoiler


Spoiler


Ahhh the black tags! They buuuuurrrrrrnnnnn!

Maybe this thread can be turned into a spoiler thread?
Don't fuck with the Culture.
0

#48 User is offline   The Tyrant Lizard 

  • First Sword
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 639
  • Joined: 27-January 07

Posted 15 March 2009 - 11:05 AM

I dont think Kellhus is crazy, I think it more likely that Moengus was the one who went mad.

As for cnaur, i dont think he's dead. If you look at the end of TWP we see the lengths the consult are going to to find out about the dunyain, "WHO ARE THE DUNYAIN?" to the point where they reveal themselves and slaughter entire populations by bumming them to death. The one man in the world who knows about the dunyain is Cnaur, and he hates them with a passion (and is not above bumming people himself.) so the consult would do everything in their power to keep him alive. So I reckon he's alive, probably an utter puppet, probably completely mental, but out there somewhere, screweing someone whoo looks like the aspect emperor's first wife.
I want to die the way my dad died, peacefully in his sleep. Not screaming in terror like his passengers.
0

#49 User is offline   Yellow 

  • Sick and Tired
  • Group: High House Mafia
  • Posts: 1,703
  • Joined: 22-February 05

Posted 15 March 2009 - 11:47 AM

View PostThe Tyrant Lizard, on Mar 15 2009, 11:05 AM, said:

bumming them to death


Lol.

I'm with you on the Cnauir thing. He's in Golgotterath, bumming all kinds of nasty things.

EDIT - oh my god, I've been on here for about 4 years and completely missed my 1000th post. I bet it was a cracker, too :p

This post has been edited by Yellow: 15 March 2009 - 12:01 PM

Don't fuck with the Culture.
0

#50 User is offline   Cause 

  • Elder God
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 5,917
  • Joined: 25-December 03
  • Location:NYC

Posted 15 March 2009 - 01:14 PM

Im curious though since Bakker increasingly shows the outside is real and Akka gives a description at one point about how madness in humans is when the outside leaks through them, throw in that scene where Conphas thinks Cnauir is gilgoal. I wonder if their might be something going on their.

That said Im sure that Conphas is not possessed I think he is just a spycopath
0

#51 User is offline   Aztiel 

  • Lieutenant
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 109
  • Joined: 31-January 06
  • Location:Wisconsin, USA

Posted 03 April 2009 - 01:39 PM

The library copy has finally arrived - work you can't end too soon!
0

#52 User is offline   Optimus Prime 

  • Daylight Oblivion
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 4,425
  • Joined: 22-March 07
  • Location:San Diego, California
  • Interests:Ranting and Raving. Being the biggest Liberal on this forum. Arguing with Cold Iron (and winning). Writing (struggling right now), reading, Georgia Bulldog FOOTBALL!<br /><br />And the lades, of course, always the ladies ;)

Posted 04 April 2009 - 06:10 AM

LOVED THIS BOOK.

And I agree with Morgy, Kellhus is a NUT JOB. I think he's beyond "good" or "evil", and is simply insane. He really believes he's the saviour now....

and Kelomonas(SP?) scares the crap out of me.

Nonmen Erratics are fucking awesome!
0

#53 User is offline   Use Of Weapons 

  • Soletaken
  • View gallery
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 2,237
  • Joined: 06-May 03
  • Location:Manchester, UK
  • Interests:Writing. Martial arts. Sport. Music, playing and singing, composition.

Posted 06 April 2009 - 09:42 AM

Finished it last week. Awesome. Great writing, especially (as stated above) the scenes with the Scalpoi in Cil-Aujas (which make Moria look like the Elysian Fields).

Spoiler

It is perfectly monstrous the way people go about nowadays saying things against one, behind one's back, that are absolutely and entirely true.
-- Oscar Wilde
0

#54 User is offline   Dolorous Menhir 

  • God
  • Group: Wiki Contributor
  • Posts: 4,550
  • Joined: 31-January 06

Posted 06 April 2009 - 05:50 PM

View Postjitsukerr, on Apr 6 2009, 10:42 AM, said:

Finished it last week. Awesome. Great writing, especially (as stated above) the scenes with the Scalpoi in Cil-Aujas (which make Moria look like the Elysian Fields).

Spoiler


Bakker is a shocking writer. His battle-scenes are pathetic, and his reliance on repeated stock phrases is embarassing. (I'm holding back from using stronger words).
0

#55 User is offline   Use Of Weapons 

  • Soletaken
  • View gallery
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 2,237
  • Joined: 06-May 03
  • Location:Manchester, UK
  • Interests:Writing. Martial arts. Sport. Music, playing and singing, composition.

Posted 07 April 2009 - 12:57 PM

Meh. Your 'repeated stock phrases' is my 'deliberate reinforcement prose-poetry'. I don't mind that others have a different opinion, and I'm not claiming ultimate truth for mine.

Edit: missing 'not' completely altered what I was trying to say!

This post has been edited by jitsukerr: 07 April 2009 - 12:58 PM

It is perfectly monstrous the way people go about nowadays saying things against one, behind one's back, that are absolutely and entirely true.
-- Oscar Wilde
0

#56 User is offline   Darkwatch 

  • A Strange Human
  • Group: The Most Holy and Exalted Inquis
  • Posts: 2,190
  • Joined: 21-February 03
  • Location:MACS0647-JD
  • 1.6180339887

Posted 07 April 2009 - 01:15 PM

Finished the book a week ago. I loved it.
I agree that Cil-Aujas was awesome.
I also liked the fleshing out of the non-men, since before we had very little information on them. They have that whole uncanny thing going on.

Though I have to say the book felt compressed or lacking, we see almost nothing happen on the Great Ordeal, and the other main plot point
Spoiler
.

If this is still intended as a duology then Bakker has one BIG book coming up.
The Pub is Always Open

Proud supporter of the Wolves of Winter. Glory be to her Majesty, The Lady Snow.
Cursed Summer returns. The Lady Now Sleeps.

The Sexy Thatch Burning Physicist

Τον Πρωτος Αληθη Δεσποτην της Οικιας Αυτος

RodeoRanch said:

You're a rock.
A non-touching itself rock.
0

#57 User is offline   Yellow 

  • Sick and Tired
  • Group: High House Mafia
  • Posts: 1,703
  • Joined: 22-February 05

Posted 07 April 2009 - 05:31 PM

It's a trilogy.
Don't fuck with the Culture.
0

#58 User is offline   Darkwatch 

  • A Strange Human
  • Group: The Most Holy and Exalted Inquis
  • Posts: 2,190
  • Joined: 21-February 03
  • Location:MACS0647-JD
  • 1.6180339887

Posted 08 April 2009 - 05:19 AM

Good to know.
I was way behind on the news.
The Pub is Always Open

Proud supporter of the Wolves of Winter. Glory be to her Majesty, The Lady Snow.
Cursed Summer returns. The Lady Now Sleeps.

The Sexy Thatch Burning Physicist

Τον Πρωτος Αληθη Δεσποτην της Οικιας Αυτος

RodeoRanch said:

You're a rock.
A non-touching itself rock.
0

#59 User is offline   The Tyrant Lizard 

  • First Sword
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 639
  • Joined: 27-January 07

Posted 08 April 2009 - 09:19 AM

View PostDolorous Menhir, on Apr 6 2009, 06:50 PM, said:

View Postjitsukerr, on Apr 6 2009, 10:42 AM, said:

Finished it last week. Awesome. Great writing, especially (as stated above) the scenes with the Scalpoi in Cil-Aujas (which make Moria look like the Elysian Fields).

Spoiler


Bakker is a shocking writer. His battle-scenes are pathetic, and his reliance on repeated stock phrases is embarassing. (I'm holding back from using stronger words).



Bakker's battle scenes are not pathetic. FACT. oh no wait, its just my opinion.

This post has been edited by The Tyrant Lizard: 08 April 2009 - 09:19 AM

I want to die the way my dad died, peacefully in his sleep. Not screaming in terror like his passengers.
0

#60 User is offline   Dolorous Menhir 

  • God
  • Group: Wiki Contributor
  • Posts: 4,550
  • Joined: 31-January 06

Posted 08 April 2009 - 05:30 PM

View PostThe Tyrant Lizard, on Apr 8 2009, 10:19 AM, said:

Bakker's battle scenes are not pathetic. FACT. oh no wait, its just my opinion.


This is my opinion of Bakker's battles (I draw from that big crusade they had in the first three books, where the crusaders fought a series of groups that got in their way). They can mainly been reduced to:

Side A is losing to Side B, after the author has spent little to no time explaining basic details like who Side B are and what they want

Noble X from Side A rides valiantly into the battle

Side A wins, General Y from Side B dies

(Author forgets about Side B for rest of novel)

This post has been edited by Dolorous Menhir: 08 April 2009 - 05:31 PM

0

Share this topic:


  • 8 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Last »
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users