[DagOban]

Hello everyone,

This is my first post so be gentle.

Is Draconus a Tiste Andii ?

If so, what is his relation to Anomander Rake, Andarist, and Silchas Ruin ?

If not, is Draconus an elder god like K'rul or just a powerful out worldly being ?

Thanks for helping!

This post has been edited by DagOban: 31 October 2008 - 08:24 PM

[Lisheo]

He's an Elder God like K'rul

[Grief]

We dont know if he is Tiste Andii. He is however, a draconic soletaken.
He seems to be an elder god, although we do not know what he was god of.

RotCG spoiler.

Spoiler

His relation to Rake etc, seems, in the prologue, to be one of contempt

although he seems to respect Anomander a lot in TTH

Edit: Sorry, thought we were in RotCG forums, not TTH.

[Grief]

Cross post with Lisheo.
Welcome to the forums btw.
As a general word of advice, people tend to use the default text, as it is small and doesnt take loads of space etc.

Also it doesnt give people a heart attack when they see the different text

[Lisheo]

Ah don't comment on the font, its cule I usually use papyrus on msn, but we don't have it here, alas. And I second Grief's welcome

[Jude]

welcome to the forums!!! WOOO also I guess they've never come right out and said "Draconus is not a Tiste Andii" in the series but I'm 99.99999999999989988277826% sure taht Draconus is not a Tiste Andii. His relation to the Rake brothers is that they used to hang out in the good ol' days and then Rake killed him and took his sword.

[Aptorian]

Draaconus is also connected with dragons and was once called the consort to tiam.

Then he killed a lot of them and he became not so popular.

[Ain't_It_Just_]

Ah, so Draconus is the Consort...who loves none but himself.

While we're at it...any other positions in the Holds I should know about. Gotta keep up to date, see.

[Excellence]

Going by what you learn of him in Memories of Ice, the 3rd book, he's a deity, Elder-class. As we know, Rake had a confrontation during his courtship of Envy, his daughter, and killed the bloke with his own soul sword. Yeah, the Elders werea bloodthirsty lot and Dracdude was wild and dangerous in his day, eons ago. You saw a hint of that in Return of the Crimson Guard's sample.

[thesalus]

Though Draconus was called consort to Tiam, I am of the belief that he holds a different position on the Dragon Hold.

Kuru Qan halted, brows lifting. ‘More? Dragon Hold has awakened. Wyval. Blood-Drinker. Gate. Consort' - MT

All the major dragon-related players in MT.


The Dragon Hold
Queen = Tiam
- "Ruled by the Queen, who must be slain again and again by every child she bears." - MT
Consort = Scabandari Bloodeye
- "The Consort writhes upon a tree and whispers with madness of the time of his release." - MT
Liege = Draconus
- "The Liege is lost, dragging chains in a world where to walk is to endure, and where to halt is to be devoured" - MT
Knight = Anomander Rake
- "The Knight strides his own doomed path, soon to cross blades with his own vengeance." - MT (Fancy that!)
Gate = Clip (Not entirely sure of this, he might have held the position only for the duration of RG, though.)
- "Gate of the Dragon and Blood-Drinker converge on the Watcher of the Empty Hold - but no, this is all madness." - RG
Wyval = Wyval
The Lady = Envy
The Sister = Spite
- "The Lady and the Sister dance round each other, each on her own side of the world." - MT
Blood-Drinker = Silchas Ruin
- "Blood-Drinker waits as well, waits to be found." - MT
Path-Shaper - K'rul
- "Path-Shaper knows fever in his fell blood and staggers on the edge of the precipice." - MT

This post has been edited by thesalus: 01 November 2008 - 01:53 PM

[Lisheo]

Clip has no draconean blood, so I doubt he is gate And Scabandari can't be the consort. He was trapped in a dagger, not a tree. I think the Consort is perhaps someone we haven't seen, some crucified Eleint still alive. IE the Otataral Dragon.

[Aptorian]

Indeed Clip isn't connected with the holds. Rather he is connected to the cult of the blackwinged lord.

I think blooddrinker may be Bloodeye. He waited to be found. Everyone else knew where Ruin was hiding.

[Lisheo]

You'd expect Silchas to get a place though, not Bloodeye. And not many people knew who he was. Remember, Hannon Mosag though it was originally Scabandari sealed in the Azath.

[thesalus]

I agree that Clip doesn't really have a place in the Dragon Hold, as he has no draconean blood (in fact, that's the original reason for why I edited my post... but my memory is something awful)

Well, whichever of the sisters that was located under Silchas described him as thinking draconean. Someone who would in fact wait for his release. For millenia, even.

But both would fit ever so nicely into the "Gate of the Dragon and Blood-Drinker converge on the Watcher of the Empty Hold - but no, this is all madness." quote. Although, I might just be warping the text to fit my needs. As well, it doesn't make terribly much sense to me for Scabandari to be the Blood-Drinker in the context of this quote. Though, you may be right in Silchas Ruin not holding the position, as he already holds the White Crow position in the Fulcra.

[Volkh]

i probably missed it somewere but i know drac here and MD were "friends with benefits" but who was spite and envy's mother? could drac have been the father of anyone else that came from mother dark?

[Aptorian]

according to the draconean family tree it was Sheltatha Lore and Draconus that made Envy and Spite.

[Jorram]

Aptorian, on Nov 2 2008, 11:36 AM, said:

according to the draconean family tree it was Sheltatha Lore and Draconus that made Envy and Spite.

Who's the Watcher of the Empty Hold then? I sort of remember Silchas being given this title. And then, back in the RG forums, there were speculations about Blood-drinker being Sukul Ankhadu, as there were hints of her surviving on human blood while in hiding (and technically, she was "waiting to be found" by Sheltatha). Which would hint to the Gate being Menandore, but this sounds just stupid.

The others (beside the consort, who is still doubtful, but still most likely Scabandari to me) are indeed pretty obvious at this point.

[Ain't_It_Just_]

Maybe Rud Ellale is the Gate? Since he is half-Eleint and lived near Starvald Demelain or something like that...

[Lisheo]

Ain't_It_Just_, on Nov 3 2008, 09:50 AM, said:

Maybe Rud Ellale is the Gate? Since he is half-Eleint and lived near Starvald Demelain or something like that...

Quite possible. He was, in effect, guardian of the Gate to Starvald Demelain in the Refugium. A nice idea AIJ.

[HoosierDaddy]

thesalus, on Nov 1 2008, 08:52 AM, said:

Though Draconus was called consort to Tiam, I am of the belief that he holds a different position on the Dragon Hold.

Kuru Qan halted, brows lifting. ‘More? Dragon Hold has awakened. Wyval. Blood-Drinker. Gate. Consort' - MT

All the major dragon-related players in MT.


The Dragon Hold
Queen = Tiam
- "Ruled by the Queen, who must be slain again and again by every child she bears." - MT

I agree.

Quote

Consort = Scabandari Bloodeye
- "The Consort writhes upon a tree and whispers with madness of the time of his release." - MT

Do not agree. This is the "otataral dragon." That dragon is "crucified" and has a shard of otataral through him. Thus the "tree = wooden crucifix" and the otataral has caused the madness.

Quote

Liege = Draconus
- "The Liege is lost, dragging chains in a world where to walk is to endure, and where to halt is to be devoured" - MT

Yes. Obvious.

Quote

Knight = Anomander Rake
- "The Knight strides his own doomed path, soon to cross blades with his own vengeance." - MT (Fancy that!)

Questionable. Rake saves the gate to Galain and M.D., and that is not a "doomed path." In fact he crosses blades with Ultor not for vengeance, and neither did Ultor for that matter cross blades with Rake for vengeance, he just had to get by him. Although the play on words of Ultor wielding the sword "Vengeance" and literally crossing swords with Rake with it makes this a highly poetic choice. I think this position is debatable.

Quote

Gate = Clip (Not entirely sure of this, he might have held the position only for the duration of RG, though.)
- "Gate of the Dragon and Blood-Drinker converge on the Watcher of the Empty Hold - but no, this is all madness." - RG

Gate = Menandore, who has access to S.D. seemingly at will as opposed to Silchas who has to go through gates, and Blood Drinker is of course Ruin.

Quote

Wyval = Wyval
The Lady = Envy
The Sister = Spite
- "The Lady and the Sister dance round each other, each on her own side of the world." - MT
Blood-Drinker = Silchas Ruin
- "Blood-Drinker waits as well, waits to be found." - MT
Path-Shaper - K'rul
- "Path-Shaper knows fever in his fell blood and staggers on the edge of the precipice." - MT

Agree with all the rest.