[Old Hunch Arbat]

Exactly what/where is the Abyss?

OHA

[Lisheo]

I think the Abyss is deep space, actually. It's been referred to in that context in tBH (Corabb, I think), and that would make the Turtle of the Abyss reference a tip of the hat to discworld.

[Ain't_It_Just_]

As a spine-tingly-dingly matter o' coincidence, that's the passage I was reading only yesterday. I quote:

...the night sky was bright with the twin sweeps of the roads of the Abyss...they could be naught but celestial roads, the paths walked by dragons of the deep and Elder Gods and blacksmiths with suns for eyes who hammered stars into life; and the wolrds spinning round those stars were simply dross, cast-offs from the forges, pale and smudged...

Lotta interpretations there.

[Lisheo]

Well, it does lend support for my idea that the Abyss is space

[Traveller]

Ain't_It_Just_, on Nov 3 2008, 09:47 AM, said:

If that's true, no wonder Korlat wondered where Bellurdan was in MoI...

But why him, out of all the identities...

Do you mean why did he get rejected over the others? Tattersail performed the soul-shift - using a lot of strength/will, while Nighchill was bound into her own remains by the preservation spell from earlier on (Which was also cast by 'Sail.)

Both were strong characters, one being an elder god, and the other a powerful mage -
I guess that when Bellurdans body died/was consumed in the fire, he probably wasn't even aware of the soul-shift. When Hairlock did it, he needed QB's help; it was supposed to a 'lost' art.

Tattersail only managed it because she was a pretty shit-hot mage; Bellurdan, even though he was a mage, got left out of the whole thing.

I've never really thought about the 'where' of the abyss... I've always seen it as the sort of black, depthless (almost) void below the surface 'layers' of warrens/holds/realms, which are all interconnected, overlapping each other at the same level.

I think in GotM, there are a few good descriptions of Hairlock and QB in the chaotic swirl between warrens - I always pictured the Abyss to be the lowest place to which souls could fall down to if there was nothing to hold them back.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 04 November 2008 - 05:09 PM

[Aptorian]

Uhm my memory is a little sketchy, but I don't remember Tattersail having any say in her destiny of becoming mortal bonecaster. She didn't have the skill or the knowledge to do what was done on that plain.

She more or less commited suicide when she opened her warren to avoid letting Bellurdan kill her or take her into custody on Tays order. I remember her grabbing the bag... I think... perhaps trying to use Nightchills power, she then used her warren within Tools gigantic overlapping tellann field, which is apparently a very bad idea... probably a GOTMism. By doing this I'm guessing Tellan more or less sapped her like a bug, most likely taking Bellurdan with her.

Now they should have died, but K'rull... and probably also Nightchill, had forseen this event and instead, with the help of Kruppes dreamworld and that bonecaster... Pran Chole? they took the souls of the three and forged a new being that was born within Tellan and put into a Rhivi.

[Ain't_It_Just_]

Traveller, on Nov 5 2008, 04:07 AM, said:

Ain't_It_Just_, on Nov 3 2008, 09:47 AM, said:

If that's true, no wonder Korlat wondered where Bellurdan was in MoI...
But why him, out of all the identities...

I've never really thought about the 'where' of the abyss... I've always seen it as the sort of black, depthless (almost) void below the surface 'layers' of warrens/holds/realms, which are all interconnected, overlapping each other at the same level.

And the floor is cluttered with rejects...

[Fifty]

Lisheo, on Nov 3 2008, 06:56 PM, said:

I think the Abyss is deep space, actually. It's been referred to in that context in tBH (Corabb, I think), and that would make the Turtle of the Abyss reference a tip of the hat to discworld.

It is a reference to a lot more than just Discworld. If you look up some background on Discworld, I dare say you'll find lots of info on where TP got the idea for Turtles (all the way down ;-) ) came from. It is quite interesting, some of it.

[Traveller]

Aptorian, on Nov 4 2008, 06:04 PM, said:

Uhm my memory is a little sketchy, but I don't remember Tattersail having any say in her destiny of becoming mortal bonecaster. She didn't have the skill or the knowledge to do what was done on that plain.

She more or less commited suicide when she opened her warren to avoid letting Bellurdan kill her or take her into custody on Tays order. I remember her grabbing the bag... I think... perhaps trying to use Nightchills power, she then used her warren within Tools gigantic overlapping tellann field, which is apparently a very bad idea... probably a GOTMism. By doing this I'm guessing Tellan more or less sapped her like a bug, most likely taking Bellurdan with her.

Now they should have died, but K'rull... and probably also Nightchill, had forseen this event and instead, with the help of Kruppes dreamworld and that bonecaster... Pran Chole? they took the souls of the three and forged a new being that was born within Tellan and put into a Rhivi.

Tattersail tried to soul-shift in to Nightchills remains on purpose, she wasn't killing herself - it was a last ditch escape attempt based on what Hairlock had done.

Bellurdans words returned to her: if she accessed her Thyr warren now, she'd be consumed. Incinerated by the reactive influence of the T'lan Imass. Her eyes fell on the burlap sack beside the Thelomen and saw from it the faint gleam of sorcery. A spell. My own spell. She recalled now, a gesture of compassion, a spell of...preservation. Is this my way out? Hood's Breath, is it even possible? She thought of Hairlock, the journey from the dying body to a lifeless ...vessel. Shedunel, have mercy on us...

She didn't anticipate intervention - she soul shifted, on purpose, then fled across the plain in Nightchills rotted corpse, which presumably still contained Nightchills soul. The last line in the quote kind of shows what she was trying to do.

Yes, K'rul, Kruppe etc sensed her and aided with the second shift into the Rhivi child as an act of mercy, and for their own agenda; she didn't see the bonecaster thing coming. But the result was, Tattersail did escape death, and Bellurdan got cooked, while his soul got lost in the abyss... bad day for him all round, really.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 05 November 2008 - 01:25 PM

[Jude]

haha thank you, traveller. I was going to say the same thing about that except I wouldn't have been able to give the awesome quote to back it up since I'm at work. Yeah she for sure wasn't just committing suicide. She most definitely didn't know that she was going to become a bone caster master but she WAS trying to soul shift.

[Aptorian]

Well, I'll be damned...