[Grief]

I believe actually, he was trying to weaken Tal a bit, aswell as test him.
Though I doubt he had to do it that way, which seems an unnecessary risk, perhaps something better done when you know your limits.

[Silencer]

You forget, Grief, that QB is someone who has walked the paths of chaos, who plays shadow games with shadow, and who takes risks as a matter of living - like deliberately unleashing something nastier to deal with a nasty. It's part of his MO to take crazy risks.

[Grief]

Stupid you mean

Anyhow, whats wrong with deliberately unleashing something nastyier to deal with the nasty.
As long as you've got something even nastier to deal with that, no problem. Until you're final nasty gets dealt with by something nasty. Like Rake. Or gothos.
Its nasty turtles all the way down.
Until Rake and Gothos and co.

[Mcflury]

Grief, on Jan 26 2009, 10:05 PM, said:

Stupid you mean

Anyhow, whats wrong with deliberately unleashing something nastyier to deal with the nasty.
As long as you've got something even nastier to deal with that, no problem. Until you're final nasty gets dealt with by something nasty. Like Rake. Or gothos.
Its nasty turtles all the way down.
Until Rake and Gothos and co.

Now that would be silly... why would you unleash something nastier to deal with the nasty, when you already have the nastiest? If you already have the nastiest on your side, then you should just let the nastiest get rid of the nasty quite obviously. No need of the nastier then.

And are you sure the TTG went through Tellann warrens? And even if they did go through them, that doesn't mean they can use the warren, like Beak could.
And you also can't know for sure QB would've been able to stop those magics since he never did it (on his own). After all, QB only has 8 warrens (or 7 even?) he can access and open all at the same time, Beak has access to more warrens than QB in total... opening them all at the same time might result in better overal protection.

But I'll just be fair, go along with the crowd, and say Tay is the most powerful mage ever. He takes care of his plants! That's like a powerlevel over 9000!

[Grief]

TTG does use tellan.
And it does mean that they can use it, because someone needs to be there to open the portal or whatever.

As for stopping a ritual well, just because we've never seen someone do exactly that, we've seen people do stuff equal to it.
And im not sure time has tremendously much to do with power. Yes, it helps, but beyond a certain point, its still to do with the casters capacity.

Opening all warrens at once does not equal better protection. Its all about how good you are. Raest has one warren. Does QB beat him? Nope. More warrens give more versatily, perhaps, but not more power, if your opponent is good. And once you're skilled enough, you need fewer warrens to achieve the same versatility etc.

[Aptorian]

Do the TTG use Tellan or do they just tear a hole in it and go through it? Semantics or important difference?

[Grief]

You could ask that of anyone.
Does beak use tellan, or merely tear a hole in it with someone else an use a little of what leaks out?
Is there a difference, considering that is how someone describes magic early on. Cant rememebr who though. Tay or tatter or something perhaps...

[L'oric]

I wish Rake and Beak would end their runs....loved them while they were here...don't let the door hit em on the arse on the way out...miss em now that they are gone.

I like what they did over at the best swordsmen left thread. I am thinking that its much closer between First Class and Business Class than we would like to think.

First Class (too big and scary to mess with)
Tay: Undisputed mortal heavyweght
Obo: Don't mess with the guy...no one tries to.
Kilava: Seems to love to issue ultimatums...because no one ever doubts em.
Gothos:...other than the fact he is "trapped" in an Athas...the strongest mage of the Jhags other than Hood I guess.


Business Class (mess with them and you get the business)
QB: Probably strong enough to take on anyone in the right circumstances..which he will make sure is the only way he will take someone on.
Kruppe: too egnigmatic for my tastes...seems to be a master of mockra...i will err on the side of someone who knows everything has to be on here.
Vorkan: Strongest of the Mage cabal by far.
Agayla: What do we know other than she stood with Obo and Tay and seems to be Malaz City wayward wizard caretaker. Good enough for me.
Silchas Ruin: Brother of Rake has to mean something...the fact that he is not a warren user puts him lower on the scale to be sure.
Envy: Been around the block in more ways than one.
Spite: See above

Up in comers. Anyone else see a high mage in the making other than these two?
Sinn: Mountain of Ice...Fire Elemental...Whatever warren she is using no one knows how she is doing anything...scary
Bottle: Beaks viewing plus the fact that he seems to always be able to do anything needed. Mockra assault on Demon check...save QB from Shadow check...has the required stretching of limits check.
Kiska: only cause I love her character.

Ran out of steam will edit and revisit.
Sincerely
L'oric

This post has been edited by L'oric: 27 January 2009 - 06:01 PM

[Grief]

If you're going to do this, you may aswell have it seperate for mortals and immortals.
Tay is a mortal heavyweight. So is QB. Kilava is powerful.

However, none of them, from what we've seen, could hold there own in a straight up fight with the likes of Rake, Gothos, Olar Ethil, Osserc, K'rul, Raest, Draconus, Hood, and so on and so forth.

My advice would be to have a seperate league for the ridiculous powerhouses such as Rake and Gothos, or to seperate out mortals and immortals completely.

[L'oric]

Grief, on Jan 27 2009, 11:05 AM, said:

If you're going to do this, you may aswell have it seperate for mortals and immortals.
Tay is a mortal heavyweight. So is QB. Kilava is powerful.

However, none of them, from what we've seen, could hold there own in a straight up fight with the likes of Rake, Gothos, Olar Ethil, Osserc, K'rul, Raest, Draconus, Hood, and so on and so forth.

My advice would be to have a seperate league for the ridiculous powerhouses such as Rake and Gothos, or to seperate out mortals and immortals completely.

I always thought the beauty of the world building was the fact that everyone could be killed by anyone and that noone was immune to death by someone.

I have comepletely forgotten about who Olar Ethil is. Dragon Soletaken Imass?

I would like to keep it as is without the immortal and mortal distinction because it seems to me that if tyou are strong enough as a mage you eventually become immortal anyway.

Sincerely,
L'oric

[Urizen]

L'oric, on Jan 27 2009, 07:00 PM, said:

Vorkan: Strongest of the Mage cabal by far.

I don't feel we can say this at all. We can only say she's best at killing with magic but there's more to magic than just blowing stuff up and killing with it. For exemple if you want someone magically wacked you might go to Vorcan but if you want a magical potion or Healing you most likely go to Baruk.
Also, she might have killed a lot of the Cabal members in GOTM but as we see in TTH they actually allowed themselves to killed( presumably to avoid having to deal with the Tyrant).

This post has been edited by Urizen: 27 January 2009 - 07:30 PM

[Grief]

L'oric, on Jan 27 2009, 06:50 PM, said:

Grief, on Jan 27 2009, 11:05 AM, said:

If you're going to do this, you may aswell have it seperate for mortals and immortals.
Tay is a mortal heavyweight. So is QB. Kilava is powerful.

However, none of them, from what we've seen, could hold there own in a straight up fight with the likes of Rake, Gothos, Olar Ethil, Osserc, K'rul, Raest, Draconus, Hood, and so on and so forth.

My advice would be to have a seperate league for the ridiculous powerhouses such as Rake and Gothos, or to seperate out mortals and immortals completely.

I always thought the beauty of the world building was the fact that everyone could be killed by anyone and that noone was immune to death by someone.

I have comepletely forgotten about who Olar Ethil is. Dragon Soletaken Imass?

I would like to keep it as is without the immortal and mortal distinction because it seems to me that if tyou are strong enough as a mage you eventually become immortal anyway.

Sincerely,
L'oric

Hmm, perhaps wouldve been better phrased as ascendants and non ascendants?

I would also advise creating a seperate thread, just because of the sheer numbers of mages. If you do so, the DoD forum ios best place for it.

Tier 1:

Rake, Olar ethil(yes, undead imass soletaken), Gothos, Raest, Hood, K'Chain matrons, MD, Draconus, K'rul, Mael(or perhaps just say all EGS), Osserc...

Thats just tier one, and its just off the top of my head, and is also probably the most elite/smallest group. And if you're going to keep track of why they're there/their achievements, then that thread will get massive, so im not sure here is the best place. Also has the disadvantage of being in TTH forum.

[Ain't_It_Just_]

I dunno about Osserc...he hasn't really showed any magic efficacy. But feel free to prove me wrong.

[Grief]

Spoiler

Attacks an azath RCG. Magic seems likely. He's a soletaken eleint, so at least has SD, and almost certainly KL aswell
Also, to fight people like draconus, you'd need some magical prowess, cause if he just wants you dead, he may not bother with swords.

[Andirak]

How could the Son of Light, nigh, the First Born of Father Light Himself, not be heftily equipped in the area of magic? I also get the feeling he's older than Rake, (wild speculations) if old age is anything to go by (as in Elder Gods/Goddesses seem to be more powerful).

Not saying he's more powerful than Rake, they're probably about equal.

[L'oric]

I would like to keep it to alive and not likely alive, and probably dead.

Problem with Ascendant non ascendant is that most mages seem to be on the verge of ascension or at least aquiring a very long long life span.

Sincerely,
L'oric

[Ain't_It_Just_]

Grief, on Jan 28 2009, 10:54 AM, said:

Spoiler

Attacks an azath RCG. Magic seems likely. He's a soletaken eleint, so at least has SD, and almost certainly KL aswell
Also, to fight people like draconus, you'd need some magical prowess, cause if he just wants you dead, he may not bother with swords.

Ah yes, I forgot about that. But remember, that Iccy nearly destroyed an Azath, without sorcery. But I can't see Osserc doing that...

I wonder if all mages attain some level of Ascendancy if they live long.

[Silencer]

Magic and sorcery is one road to ascendancy, obviously. It's not guaranteed, nor is it easy...but it is a path. Not all mages would ascend if they live long enough. After all, they require the drive and ambition to do so. There is a clear lack of examples of mages who have ascended - how many can we name? Baruk, the rest of the Cabal...Obo, Agayla...maybe Tay. Kellanved doesn't count - he attained ascendancy in a different way. Long life just gives you more time and chances.

[Grief]

Dont think we've seen any proof of Rake and Ossercs relative age.
I'd guess rake, cause Osserc seems to me to be pissed at rake patronising him he may have done at times, considering his attitude MT prologue. Not sure. Osserc being older kinda just doesn't seem to work for me, just hard to picture, though that may just be cause rake is first son of darkness. They certainly seem close in power, though I believe we only know the result of one battle which is that Rake won and let osserc live.
Im not sure they battle often, because im not sure how often they'd be willing to let each other live, since it seems to be rather big things that drive them to blows. Not even sure I can really picture osserc letting rake live. They seem just to split up.
Their age is probably so close it doesnt matter.

As for EGs being more powerful, well, im unsure.
Rake beats Tiam, Draconus and Killy, but then he's exceptional, so possibly shouldnt be counted.

[Aptorian]

The Ossercs age and status debate is old. I stick to my theory that Osserc was an Elder God that was around before Rake and co came around.