[Traveller]

In this hypothetical duel, would Trull have his stone spear?

Icarium showed that a regular spear would get destroyed by too many sword blows.

But then, someone like Brys would probably be able to aim precicely at Trulls hands/wrists, and disable him anyways.

Different case entirely, (GRRM spoiler)

Spoiler

but the Red Viper killed the Mountain with a spear. He would have won if he hadn't gone for a gloat.

I voted wrong, by the way - I went for Trull, but I think Brys could take him.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 23 December 2008 - 05:56 PM

[D'rek]

The spear isn't called the 'king of weapons' for nothing!

To Beru: Spears can most definitely slash, they just can't do it as deeply as swords. But seriously, a quality can spear slash can still penetrate to the arteries and that's all you need to incapacitate a limb or such, you really don't need the full limb-severing action of a sword.

To Traveller: Sure we've seen spears break, but we've also seen swords break. I think this is a bit moot. And while a good swordsman can aim at a polearm user's hands, a good polearm user can deflect properly or change their grips to avoid it.

[Bauchelain the Evil]

Silencer, on Dec 23 2008, 10:00 AM, said:

.

I dunno. Trull didn't exactly beat Silchas, or Icarium. He held them...by shear force of will. He certainly wasn't attacking Icarium, just defending. What would Brys have been able to do though? He is very good - hugely skilled...fast, willing to sacrifice to get things done....but we haven't actually seen him in a straight-up one-on-one sword fight. If it is accepted that, to do what he did to Rhulad, he had to slow his strikes right down...then it's quite possible that he would beat Trull. Trull just isn't that fast. If, however, he didn't have to slow down that much...then Trull would win. Because Trull stood against Icarium. For an amazing amount of time.

Actually while he was indeed just defending himself against Icarium-and that alone is impressive since he managed to hold the most powerful being in the malaz world-,Trull was definitely destroying Ruin and would have also killed him if his injured leg hadn't failed him(seems familiar,don't you think? ). In fact I am still wondering why Ruin didn't blast Trull with magic.

[beru]

Aptorian, on Dec 23 2008, 09:17 AM, said:

beru, on Dec 23 2008, 07:11 AM, said:

sword have an egde over spears... spears can stab and ... stab (they are usefull in nubers vs cavalry and easy to use) swords are able to chop cut and stab and also hit if you are more or less litraly standing on you opponents shoes (in strategy games sword takes spear, same in RL)

Tell that to Trull.

Then remember that it's a fantasy book.

it is a fantasy book where things that happen in Rl might happen (and when did Trull kill enyone spesial wilding a sword?)

[HoosierDaddy]

beru, on Dec 24 2008, 08:44 PM, said:

Aptorian, on Dec 23 2008, 09:17 AM, said:

beru, on Dec 23 2008, 07:11 AM, said:

sword have an egde over spears... spears can stab and ... stab (they are usefull in nubers vs cavalry and easy to use) swords are able to chop cut and stab and also hit if you are more or less litraly standing on you opponents shoes (in strategy games sword takes spear, same in RL)

Tell that to Trull.

Then remember that it's a fantasy book.

it is a fantasy book where things that happen in Rl might happen (and when did Trull kill enyone spesial wilding a sword?)

Brys, because Trull is dead. Anyways, just did a re-read of MT and its funny that these are the two "saviours" of the Empty Throne in Feather Witch's cedance... How about this factor: Brys told them to leave after he precisioned tuned Rhulad, because he knew no-one there could get past him to the king (who was dead...). That's a lot of surety, more than he ever showed to other Letherii swordsmen.

[Nandaki]

Firstly, spear vs sword. There is no set precedent that one is better than the other. In Real Life the Greeks of the ancient world used spears as their primary weapon. Especially the Spartans championed their use. They used short swords for close combat and they were primarily used to stab the ones who got within the range of the spear.

Also know that spears can be also used as a quarterstaff. It is a very fast offensive weapon where the range and the momentum of the weapon can be used against the enemy. Generally the blunt end is use to knock the opponents weapon out of the way before slashing with the spear point. All this can be done when the opponent( equipped with a sword) will be out of his attacking range. So the opponent has to force his way closer, which is putting himself at risk.

Discovery Channel had a very informative show on different weapon fighting styles. It is a must see.

Oh and Trull for the win!

[D'rek]

Nandaki, on Dec 29 2008, 02:06 AM, said:

Also know that spears can be also used as a quarterstaff. It is a very fast offensive weapon where the range and the momentum of the weapon can be used against the enemy. Generally the blunt end is use to knock the opponents weapon out of the way before slashing with the spear point. All this can be done when the opponent( equipped with a sword) will be out of his attacking range. So the opponent has to force his way closer, which is putting himself at risk.

Generally, I would think that a great spear user could keep moving backwards while fighting and keep the swordsman from ever getting within striking range, so long as the terrain permits it, which then leads to: Who can run faster while fighting, Brys or Trull?

[Apocalypse Now]

I always got the idea from the books that Brys is stronger, and Trull not very buff, just nimble and quick. I think Brys would win, I just think he's better and smarter. Besides I'm sort of biased since I found Trull kind of a boring dude.

[Seguleh 1st]

i vote for trull, cause many of you people are making the clip mistake. never underestimate a spear when wielded by trull sengar. he would parry every blow brys would take out with his advantage of using a spear staff-like, and wait for his chance, and eventually he would get it, even with such a great opponent as brys. is could possibly take a while, because when trull would attack, he coul maneuvre himself in a bad situation, so he has to sit it out.

Edit: greetings, nandaki. you said it precisely.

This post has been edited by Seguleh 1st: 09 January 2009 - 07:57 PM

[sacase]

Anzeus, on Oct 19 2008, 02:56 PM, said:

I think Trull would win this duel.

He has the "real" experience as far as I understand, he fought against many different foes, probably learning all the time, facing some of the greatest or most dangerous beings around.

On the other hand I see Brys as a very very skilled swordsman, but lacking "mileage", true experience. Ok, Brys operated on Rhulad, but Rhulad had far less experience at that time.

The "experience" factor is non existant. You act as if Brys just trained his whole life. Brys earned his position through deed, not by practice. I am sure Brys has plenty of "milage", we just heard his story at the last part of his life. We are not privy to what has got him to this point.

That being said I think Brys destroys Trull. I think Brys demostrates his knowledge by how he dismantled Rhulad. I am sure Brys knows the dynamics of fighting a spear weilder as well as its weakness's. Hell, he probably knows the geometry, just like he know biology. LOL But seriously, I think Brys is the best mortal swordsman, period.

[Nequam]

I my opinion, Trull would win. I don't think Brys was the best swordsman ever. What he did to Rhulad was pretty impressive, yes, but Rhulad was not that great yet. Also, Trull is extemely modest and I'm not sure he knew his own skill so just the fact that he was impressed at Brys's skill doesn't make Brys better. If you want to say spears are not faster than swords you are wrong, especially if that spear is being used by Trull. He fought Icarium in his rage and survived for god's sake! They were both moving so fast everything was like a blur. He basically owned Ruin who was Rake's brother, I mean damn! He fought his was out of entire tribe of soletaken wolves or whatever they were. Brys was good, and I'm sure this fight would be close, but I think Trull would win. I don't see how it could be otherwise.

Trull does have more experience. Sure Brys probably did his fair share of fighting, but that was against the many relatively weak peoples surrounding the Letherii Empire. His family (or at least his dad I believe) held high position in the empire, so I'm not sure he even did completely work his way up to his position.

[Nandaki]

Experience is something that cannot be measured quantitatively. As in Trull himself says that it would be impossible to defeat Brys. I think that is more down to the fact that Trull didn't know himself how good he was, as he hadn't gone on his long exile. But at that point it showed that he hadn't fought anything as good as Brys.( by that time Trull had already beaten the soletaken jheck(sp), so it is safe to say that Brys would have killed them too.) And Trull didn't "own" Ruin, Ruin slipt on a spear shaft thrown by Trull's girlfriend. Icarium hadn't reached a high level of rage when he fought Trull, by the time Icarium was chopping up Tlan Imass and their indestructible swords and bursting Quick Ben's blood vessels Trull was out of the fight. I'd say Trull and Brys are more or less similar in skill. The choice of weapons makes the difference for me.

P.S Greetings to you too Seguleh 1st.

This post has been edited by Nandaki: 16 January 2009 - 11:33 AM

[BeLeG]

Ok Trull didnt know how good he was but he was wayyyy older than Brys.Sorry I cant buy that
And people, stop saying that Trull owned Ruin!Read the damn book again!

This post has been edited by BeLeG: 16 January 2009 - 11:23 AM

[Aptorian]

Nandaki, on Jan 16 2009, 12:04 PM, said:

Experience is something that cannot be measured quantitatively. As in Trull himself says that it would be impossible to defeat Brys.

I would like to see that quote.

As I remember it, both Trull and Fear were shaken by the effortless skill tha Brys demonstrated when he dismantled Rhulad. They thought it was impossible that he could have cut all Rhulads ligaments with out knicking any of the major arteries.

Nandaki, on Jan 16 2009, 12:04 PM, said:

Icarium hadn't reached a high level of rage when he fought Trull, by the time Icarium was chopping up T'lan Imass and their indestructible swords and bursting Quick Ben's blood vessels Trull was out of the fight

Is my memory mistaken here? I thought Trull held Icarium for a while in a failing attempt at staying alive and then the Eres swooped in and put jim to sleep?

Trull did face him at full on "make you into ketchup" mode. I however doubt Iccy's destructive rage had only reached a fraction of the full force that he would have been able to unleah. Drift Avalii would have been gone if Iccy had been allowed to go loose.

[HoosierDaddy]

Your memory is correct, Apt. Trull held him until his spear was shattered, thus no more defendy.

[Nandaki]

Aptorian, on Jan 16 2009, 06:40 PM, said:

Nandaki, on Jan 16 2009, 12:04 PM, said:

Experience is something that cannot be measured quantitatively. As in Trull himself says that it would be impossible to defeat Brys.

I would like to see that quote.

As I remember it, both Trull and Fear were shaken by the effortless skill tha Brys demonstrated when he dismantled Rhulad. They thought it was impossible that he could have cut all Rhulads ligaments with out knicking any of the major arteries.

Nandaki, on Jan 16 2009, 12:04 PM, said:

Icarium hadn't reached a high level of rage when he fought Trull, by the time Icarium was chopping up T'lan Imass and their indestructible swords and bursting Quick Ben's blood vessels Trull was out of the fight

Is my memory mistaken here? I thought Trull held Icarium for a while in a failing attempt at staying alive and then the Eres swooped in and put jim to sleep?

Trull did face him at full on "make you into ketchup" mode. I however doubt Iccy's destructive rage had only reached a fraction of the full force that he would have been able to unleah. Drift Avalii would have been gone if Iccy had been allowed to go loose.

Not so sure now but one of the brothers (Trull/Fear) state after Brys dies due to poisoning, that it was the only way that Brys could have been killed. In my opinion that means that they felt at that point and time they weren't good enought to beat him. Need to search for the exact quote and the speaker in question before I can say for sure. But that line is said.

Secondly, to the best of my knowledge Trull holds Icarium for a while before his spear is broken and he is defeated. Then Monok Ochem(sp) comes on and gets sliced along with his "unbreakable" sword. After which Quick Ben enters and then gets owned. At which point Icarium is really pissed off and shrugging off magic attacks. Trulls gets back in front of him to make one last stand at which point in time Eres swoops in and puts Icarium to sleep. So Trull does not fight Icarium that point.
This is how I remember it, I might be wrong and I will read through that section again to get the correct sequence of events. Anyone else is also welcome to prove me wrong in the mean time.

This post has been edited by Nandaki: 18 January 2009 - 05:01 PM

[High house Me]

@nandaki

Yes the spartans used spears to great effect and prefered them over swords and when facing swordsmen they dismantled them but that was only because of the phalanx formation being so cohesive. when the phalanx broke up then spear users were dismantled by swordsmen and thats why it became customary for spartans to carry shortswords in case the phalanx was broken.

But moving on from that the point is i voted for Brys for two reasons.

1. Yes trull is an amazing warrior but his own awe of brys is so much that it made me realise how good he was because of the amount of action trull has seen.

2. yes trull defended against icarium but in a tightish space like he was a sword wielder has less manouverability and cannot get round a spearmans defence. Plus icarium is a heavy powerfull sword user wheras Brys is more skillfull and dare i say it elegant.

But trull still kicks ass an i love them both equaly.

[Volkh]

I refuse to vote. This is like asking who is the bigger pompous ass, pust or kruppe. When they answer so clearly is the are both equally as pompous!

[Adjutant Stormy~]

Volkh, on Aug 13 2009, 04:03 PM, said:

I refuse to vote. This is like asking who is the bigger pompous ass, pust or kruppe. When they answer so clearly is the are both equally as pompous!

Well, I'd give it to Brys. I mean, he was (supposedly) the best swordsman in the Empire. Trull was by no means touted as any formidable warrior (though admittedly he was good). I'd give it to Brys, simply for being a Beddict. Tehol would run the betting of course.

[Salt-Man Z]

Trull was by no means "touted as a formidable warrior" but come on, this is the guy who single-handedly held back Icarium in Keen Mode. One need not be touted in order to be something.