[drinksinbars]

he's just so sneaky. when it goes right for him it goes epicly right. I have to say i might request some new cards

dk (inno Symp), JA (Magicman), Yellow (Fail), Baudin (Scapegoat), Obdi (Cry wolf), Lace (Infuriator), Tapper (Battered Wife), me (hound)

[Gavin]

drinksinbars, on Oct 24 2008, 05:07 PM, said:

ja is a great player - setting up his killer because he knows fine rightly that nothing he says is taken straight and people seem to always believe the opposite.

@morgo - you werent against it from the start. A few games ago in one of the minis i ran which was my last normal game i forgot to increas ekiller numbers when the game grew to 18 players. there were 2 killers and 1 symp (think you were one) and the killers ailed to victory by sheer skill and persuasion. The fact that this game they had an extra number and the relationship worked both ways with the two symps knowing they were known, makes evil ridiculously overpowered.

Well to be honest back to Odbi is a bad bad move if you just read back to the Vengy lynch, it was obvious Obdi was innocent and picking that case up again shoudl be a bad idea. But its not going to work like that.

I recall the game you are refering to. I was the evil Guard, Morgy and Bubba the killers. We could all communicate off thread and Khell pulled his Khell.

Well the problem isn't just that the symps know the masters and vice versa giving them a 4 person voting block, its that we innocents didn't know it. It would completely change the game around.

I've noticed a trend lately where the last few games rules are getting sloppy and non balancing the games, see Morgoths Change last game, Vengys Predator, Mentaliists weak Cult and finally this. Dibsy your a rules and modding man... thoughts on improving this? Its starting to take away from the enjoyment when its one side getting a shaft.... Gem's Hero game up next I hope she gets it right.

[drinksinbars]

i try to always run through some setups and bounce them off players before hand. Its quite important to balance both sides, but like i said in the aliens game you cant make it so one team has no chance, or switch the rules in game just because the players who got the power roles arent experienced. I learned the hard way, with the lost game when things went tits up.

Who is co modding gems game? have you both looked over the roles and distribution? You can pretty much guess how good a balance is by how far through the game both teams make it. If the game ends early as a result of a certain mechaninc or mod decision then its a problem, because players expect certain standards and if told they are in play will play accordingly. The roles for this game were set out, it was specifically specified no extra roles etc. There was no mention of extra abilities so the innos have played with te assumption that although a symp might defend the master it will never be the other way about. the fact that there was a four man team int he very start, is in my opinion unbalanced.

at this point though if grief told people, the game would implode. i wmean it would have to be called, even after day 1, i would sya the game would have been called, as it would have meant a monumental shift and lisheo and morgo would have been taken out and the killers disadvantaged because they knew that the mechanic was there and that innos didnt so exploited that. To suddenly have their trump exposed would render them helpless and shift the game the opposite way.

Modding is fun, and can be very rewarding, but liekwise it can also be very frustrating because as anyone will attest players always stretch rules, through talking about pm's, trying to trick you, tryign to manipulate the rules. If you explain everything and set it out, you are actually making it harder, because people expect one thing and if you have it in any way different they wont be able to see it. If you tell them nothing the game can become a clusterfuck and some players run rampant (JA's speciality).

I think compromise is best, tell people just enough but explain that things are not as straightforward as they seem. One thing i am looking to get right is how much info i need to give out for the RD game to work, and closer to the time that is something me and bent will need to discuss, because in certain types of games too much info is detrimental.

[drinksinbars]

@bent - added opening scene and the rules for the RD game to the sh in temp forum

give it a read and post some feedback when you have time

[Path-Shaper]

Sorry have been having internet troubles for the last hour or so:

Pm's

dktorode said:

What now?....i dont fucking know.

Normally i would carry on going for obdi and silencer, But im still a bit worried that JA is playing me. But im sorry I just dont see it.
He has done things that are just not killer like. He has played pretty clean game so far. Everyone else is gunning for him simply becasue he's a sneaky fucker.
But thats not enough for me. I need something tangible to go on...he hast given me anything, besides the buddy buddy attitude he has. He does this when he wants to be on my good side. And that IS worrying. I can see him doing this if he is inno aswell thats what my dilema with JA is.
Also the fact is we have been seeing eye to eye...its not like i am looking at his posts and then copying him, my suspects turned out to be his suspects for the same reasons as i was catching up. How can i then be suspicious of him, if he is thinking like me? Id have to consider myself scum then aswell, or just bloody stupid.
That could be it actually...stupidy...

Im not so sure but you could all screaming in spoiler heaven "ALWAYS LYNCH JA DAY ONE". And im gona look like a right tit if he is scummy come the end.
But fuck it...maybe im just too prananoid. Why cant i just look at the new guys?...i just keep gravitating away from them when they do scummy things.
FUCK...

BTW im loving this game...good old meat and potatoes, i just wish it was 36 hour days so we werent forced to lynched morgoth and co. and that it was altless so i could just play the game without any preconceived notions about people...other than that, MEAT & POTATOES FTW!!!!!!!!!

No Dk we are not laughing, we are crying (except for maybe morggy)

Jump Around said:

OK, so far so good, we're going nowhere and Silencer plays my game by digging himself deeper.

Dktorode hesitates now, he's even willing to ignore the low posters (or so he says). In any case, if he chooses Mocker, like I know he would have, I'll start to act scummy and watch them freak. If he chooses anyone but my bosses I'll disagree and defend that newb.

I dare hope Mocker and Lisheo won't freak out when they read the thread. I hope you understand I'm not playing against my team here, at least not in my opinion. Sorry Mocker, you did play scummy, it's not your fault, but I have to diffuse it the only way I can think of. If someone else makes the first vote on you (and your name came up often), I can't defend you too strongly (obviously), and if I jump on the train to make people pause, it's not as strong as starting it myself.

Shit, I'm a little scared, last game I tried something and it failed, I hope not again

Jump Around said:

You know what?

Silencer is the other symp. It makes so much sense now, or at least explains his strange play.


That means we have the numbers if we lynch right today. Hmmmm.

It would appear JA is having second thoughts and overthinking himself

[Bent]

drinksinbars, on Oct 24 2008, 05:50 AM, said:

Modding is fun, and can be very rewarding, but liekwise it can also be very frustrating because as anyone will attest players always stretch rules, through talking about pm's, trying to trick you, tryign to manipulate the rules. If you explain everything and set it out, you are actually making it harder, because people expect one thing and if you have it in any way different they wont be able to see it. If you tell them nothing the game can become a clusterfuck and some players run rampant (JA's speciality).

It was entirely my fault that the masters know their symps, I take the full responsibility for that one, and it was too late to take it back once the pm's went out, so we decided to let the game continue and you need to realize, Mocker had played one game, Lish was on his first, and while we are looking for good ballance each and every game, we are also trying to keep the game fun and interesting for the newer players (who have to put up with alot of nonsense, like STFU NOOB etc.), so that they will keep playing, somewhere about 8 or 9 games ago, this game stopped being fun, and turned in to a competition to see who could play the best, who could take charge and lead the sheep to victory, we need to get out of that.

I think its time to have unbalanced games, 4 killers(2 teams allowing 2 NK's) and only 1 healer...or 1 killer and 2 symps, with 2 fingers and a healer....balance is all good, but where the fuck did the fun go? Isn't it better to win against uneven odds? Poor Lish n Mocker wouldn't have stood a chance if this had been an alted game, but the point is, they are having a blast! Baudin seems a little lost at times, but thats probably just inno paranoia...the dude is playing a good game, and Lace is baffleing, but I think all the new guys are having a good time! What gets me tore up more than anything is the fact that many of the "old gaurd" killed each other off, C'mon guys, the noobs are killing you, and you wanted to WIFOM and META and everything else to kill each other! LOL!!!

Point is this, everytime people die, they blame the balance or some mistake the mods made or whatever, instead of manning-up, and saying, HA! I sucked at this one, I had no idea who anyone was! And thats cool, if that how you want to play it, but I want to just give Grief a ton of credit here, this was his first time ever modding a game, I don't think he had even been co-mod, before now....And the game has run smoothly, and I haven't done much to help, besides fucking up the symp thing, and Greif never flinched, he just kept posting pm's, kept giving vote counts, ignored all the babble, and kept the game moving, so GOOD JOB GRIEF!

One last point, this wasn't at you DiBS, it was inspired by the quote. Back in a minute!

[Bent]

Actually, this is directed at Gavin....when are you going to mod a perfectly balanced game, eh matey?

[J_Slr]

@Bent: I did not have a chance to suck this game!

But I will give props to Grief he has done well, and I am also glad I had a little chance to mess around with modding, am going to need it when my game eventually comes up.

The thing is though, you want balance in the sense that each team has a fair chance at winning. Like I have said a few times in here, I want to tell the players about that mistake, but that breaks the game, people just need to suck it up, as painful as it is.
And the Old guard need a good shakeup!

Btw Bent do you think your mistake has affected the game at all?

[Tapper]

No need to go on the offense/ defense, Bent. I think you're partly right, but there are 2 sides to the coin.

1) the game stopping to be fun for the old hands (amongst which I'm not counting myself): that's where the crazy high tdmi games come in, and the variations of altless etc.

2) just read dkt's comments, he's having a blast. Standard games are cool and a perfect introduction to the game for new people, and if we can unbalance them to present a challenge for the old hands, cool too (that being said, look how challenged we are now; the experienced guys have been dead wrong and those alive, still are. That statement goes for nearly everyone in spoiler).

The point is, the tdmi scale represents roughly what unbalance is what scale, and due to the starting knowledge for scum, this wasn't 2 but a bit higher.

We didn't have to know the specifics especially not since they were the trump, but a slightly higher stamp would have been useful for team inno to adjust to (and could be transmitted during the game: mod-message: tdmi is adjusted to 4 due to unforseen circumstances, end of message, no more info forthcoming, don't fish for it). That would have been vague enough, i think... but others may disagree

Then again, a tdmi 8 game with balanced sides but unlucky play by 1 powerrole that gets lynched day 1 through impossibly bad luck is then also unbalanced almost from the start, so tdmi doesn't say a thing really... or the Asylum thing that happened that pushed difficulty through the roof.

Oh, and compliments indeed to Grief for running a smooth first game as mod.

[drinksinbars]

Bent, on Oct 24 2008, 12:41 PM, said:

drinksinbars, on Oct 24 2008, 05:50 AM, said:

Modding is fun, and can be very rewarding, but liekwise it can also be very frustrating because as anyone will attest players always stretch rules, through talking about pm's, trying to trick you, tryign to manipulate the rules. If you explain everything and set it out, you are actually making it harder, because people expect one thing and if you have it in any way different they wont be able to see it. If you tell them nothing the game can become a clusterfuck and some players run rampant (JA's speciality).

It was entirely my fault that the masters know their symps, I take the full responsibility for that one, and it was too late to take it back once the pm's went out, so we decided to let the game continue and you need to realize, Mocker had played one game, Lish was on his first, and while we are looking for good ballance each and every game, we are also trying to keep the game fun and interesting for the newer players (who have to put up with alot of nonsense, like STFU NOOB etc.), so that they will keep playing, somewhere about 8 or 9 games ago, this game stopped being fun, and turned in to a competition to see who could play the best, who could take charge and lead the sheep to victory, we need to get out of that.

I think its time to have unbalanced games, 4 killers(2 teams allowing 2 NK's) and only 1 healer...or 1 killer and 2 symps, with 2 fingers and a healer....balance is all good, but where the fuck did the fun go? Isn't it better to win against uneven odds? Poor Lish n Mocker wouldn't have stood a chance if this had been an alted game, but the point is, they are having a blast! Baudin seems a little lost at times, but thats probably just inno paranoia...the dude is playing a good game, and Lace is baffleing, but I think all the new guys are having a good time! What gets me tore up more than anything is the fact that many of the "old gaurd" killed each other off, C'mon guys, the noobs are killing you, and you wanted to WIFOM and META and everything else to kill each other! LOL!!!

Point is this, everytime people die, they blame the balance or some mistake the mods made or whatever, instead of manning-up, and saying, HA! I sucked at this one, I had no idea who anyone was! And thats cool, if that how you want to play it, but I want to just give Grief a ton of credit here, this was his first time ever modding a game, I don't think he had even been co-mod, before now....And the game has run smoothly, and I haven't done much to help, besides fucking up the symp thing, and Greif never flinched, he just kept posting pm's, kept giving vote counts, ignored all the babble, and kept the game moving, so GOOD JOB GRIEF!

One last point, this wasn't at you DiBS, it was inspired by the quote. Back in a minute!

mate - know modding is a bitch and its hard, but my point is that because the killers knew their symps they played a certain way and i even said it would have ruined the game. But people can have a justifiable moan, the fact remains the game is heading toward its final days and it HAS been smooth, yeah we can grumble because we would have looked at things different but likewise its good fun watching the people shine. Trust me padawan, you need to take the modding stuff with a massive grain of salt, people are always going to moan when they dont win, but you just agree with them nod your head and pm grief about what a bunch of dickhead s we are

seriously - i think the benefits to the group are enormous from these last few games, us 'old hands' have had way too many games to get to now each others ins an outs, its good to see the new blood having a laugh and really getting stuck in, its one of the reasons people like me dk and morgo play the way we do (i am guessing for them) we dont mind going out early, we just like having fun hijackign the game for a while and then drawing kills or lynches. Thats the point of mafia, thats why i enjoy it soo much. You get in, make a lot of noise, hope your spoilers arent to far off and get killed in as big a mess as possible. yes its a team game, but its also a chance to have a laugh, pretend to be an innocent and let your hair down to pass time at work.

If you think this is bad wait till you co mod mmy rd game - the shit we will get is going to feel like a fucking hurricane landed on you but you just laugh it off. At the end of the day you, grief, bubba and ment have done a great job getting a game set up in a few days and giving all of us a bit of fun for this week. nexxt week its gems turn to fuck with heads, then its ours.


THE MORE SHIT YOU GET - THE MORE EXCITING THE GAME!!!

Just look at the amount of talk it generates, lish and mocker are lovign it. I think all of our new players are doing really well, even people like alt that went out early had a good tiem and its only his second game! Stop taking things to heart mate, like i said with mrogos interferance in his game. despite all the work and all the effort its justa game and its meant to be fun.

[Bent]

I haven't made it all the way though Dibsey's post, but i can see my "Rant" was taken as a defensive statement....It wasn't meant to be that, it was meant to be a chance for me to say that I think the game has taken a turn towards competition, and away from its original intent of fun....I could care less about the bitching and moaning and nay-sayers. Its just a game, I was just trying to show how there is no reason to make a game so....straight forward. Can't think of a better word, but I am trying to say, have fun with the games....enjoy the paranoia, but tempers are flaring left and right, and I think its time to re-evaluate our gameplay and styles.

[drinksinbars]

Bent, on Oct 24 2008, 02:15 PM, said:

I haven't made it all the way though Dibsey's post, but i can see my "Rant" was taken as a defensive statement....It wasn't meant to be that, it was meant to be a chance for me to say that I think the game has taken a turn towards competition, and away from its original intent of fun....I could care less about the bitching and moaning and nay-sayers. Its just a game, I was just trying to show how there is no reason to make a game so....straight forward. Can't think of a better word, but I am trying to say, have fun with the games....enjoy the paranoia, but tempers are flaring left and right, and I think its time to re-evaluate our gameplay and styles.

you should have finished mine as thats exactly what i say.

[Tapper]

Ah, oki. I misunderstood, then

[J_Slr]

Jump Around, on Oct 24 2008, 03:10 PM, said:

Quote

I love the constant bemoaning of the nabs. I did not even realise The Dude was a nab.

Am I the only one here for whom a "nab" is another word for testicle? I know english is not my first language, but still...

JA certainly does keep things entertaining....

[Bent]

Yeah, sorry about that, It should have read like this...

I fucked up the symp thing, sorry guys, my fault not Griefs..By the way isn't he doing good.


Now on a different note, I think we need to start having more fun etc etc etc....blah blah blah rant rant rant.

Like that...followed by my chide at Gavin to mod his game so I can tell him how bad it sucked, lol smiley smiley etc.


That should clear things up a bit, again, my fault,lol

[Bent]

baudin, on Oct 24 2008, 09:26 AM, said:

Ok out of the 9 people left
Baudin, Dktorode, Jump Around, Lacedaemonian, Lisheo, Mocker, Obdigore, Silencer, The Dude
Well im tempted to beleive that Dkt is a vig so thats 2 innocents im sure of.
I'm still not sure about Obdi from yesterday, but Venge coming up innocent has thrown my conviction slightly.
JA is a possible i think, as hes being very helpful and seems to not be under the spotlight that much apart from a few random votes which largely appear to be OMGUS. Now obviously i dont think both Obdi and JA are scum because that would be the strangest move ever yesterday.
Silencer is interesting as a few trains have formed on him but they always seem to get deflected somewhere else before he gets lynched, dont have the time now to check if its similar people deflecting each time, but is something to consider i think.
I really dont know what to make of Lace, Lisheo, Mocker and The Dude as they havent done anything that screams out at me, apart from Mocker and Lish managing to largely get ignored.

And this makes me smile

[J_Slr]

cant disagree there!

[drinksinbars]

bent - as the joker would say "Why so serious?"

chill old bean, you need to chill. tis the ninternits, no one really wrroies that much and if they do. FUCK EM!!!

[Bent]

drinksinbars, on Oct 24 2008, 09:36 AM, said:

bent - as the joker would say "Why so serious?"

chill old bean, you need to chill. tis the ninternits, no one really wrroies that much and if they do. FUCK EM!!!

What are you on about now? I thought I cleared up that I wasn't even remotely ngree, just that I thought we needed to be less serious, pull your head out of your ass and read my fucking POSTS!!! CAPITAL LETTERS MEAN ANGER!!!!! GRRRRR!!!


Anyway, can you explain why I need to chill please, I think we are mis communicating somewhere....

[Vengeance]

Gavin aren't you glad we got killed yesterday. I doubt that I could play at all today....Opening limit down..aaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh