[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 3. There are 20 hours 4 minutes remaining

14 dancing queens on the floor: Baudin, Dktorode ,Gavin, Jump Around, Lacedaemonian, Lisheo, Mocker, Morgoth, Obdigore, Silencer, Tapper, The Dude, Vengence, Yellow

8 votes for lynch 7 votes for night

2 votes for Silencer (Jump Around, Lisheo)
1 vote for Lisheo (Obdigore)
1 vote Mocker (dktorode)

Not voted : Baudin, Gavin, Lacedaemonian, Mocker, Morgoth,Silencer, Tapper, The Dude, Vengence, Yellow

[Tapper]

Short post before going home.

Vig-reveal: personally, I think a CI would be nice but by no means required; if he does not survive the coming night, we will have forced the killers to dance to our tune for once by removing someone they have to remove or make us the stronger for it. Iif he does reveal, that's one less person to doubt, too. I can however understand the vig staying quiet for a bit when his reveal removes a larger % of the possible suspects, and has a bigger impact on the game: if he hasn't been threatened by a train yet, we can't deduct if it was possibly scum moving against him.

Investigations I'd like to see:
Gavin has had a huge impact on the game with the alt146 lynch. That lynch is still the basis for a lot of our information. He also made a case on Gem. Out of the lowposters, he most certainly is both active and unreadable: silencer and yellow to name two other low posters (and Baudin) haven't shown half the initiative he had, for good or bad.

Morgoth: either unlucky or scum. A lot of the gameplay and finger pointing revolved around him, his 'accusers' and his 'defenders' and we've seen trains on him for two days. That's without the WIFOM heaven of DiBsés kill and JA's remarks on the Gem train, which he was on, and for which he was actively recruiting. I'm not sure anyone going to ask him stuff is able to turn new things, though.

Sadly, I won't have a lot of time to post myself tonight. My main point of interest yesterday (the trains) is still very visible on page 27 and my discussion with Dkt on last night as well. What time I have, I will use to answer questions. Nor do I think that me attacking other players will do a case a lot of good right now, seeing how I'm somewhat suspicious myself. When I vote, I'll be sure to give a good reason for it, though.

[Obdigore]

I has returned.

No DK I was not lurking, but working.

[Jump Around]

Even worse! GET HIM!

[Obdigore]

Jump Around, on Oct 21 2008, 10:15 AM, said:

Even worse! GET HIM!

rabble rabble rabble!

[dktorode]

Bloody workers are worse than lurkers

[dktorode]

24 hour days?

dang...forgot that

[Obdigore]

8 users viewing, where the heck is everyone?

[dktorode]

Thats it for me, im outa here.

see ya tomorrow

[The Dude]

I've been catching up. Few more minutes and 'll be back to post my thoughts. One thing I noticed, if you are a vet, please reply. Why can we gather no info from the Dibs NK? He was active and took control of the board when he was on. Is there nothing to learn from that? Just my 2 cents anyway back in a sec to comment.

[Tapper]

The Dude, on Oct 21 2008, 06:04 PM, said:

I've been catching up. Few more minutes and 'll be back to post my thoughts. One thing I noticed, if you are a vet, please reply. Why can we gather no info from the Dibs NK? He was active and took control of the board when he was on. Is there nothing to learn from that? Just my 2 cents anyway back in a sec to comment.

DiBs'es death coulc be caused because he was spot on.
It could be caused because he was vocal.
It could also be caused because people want us to believe that he was spot on.
It could be because the killers want us to look at the people he was attacking as the ones removing him, or they could have removed him because he was attacking them.

There is simply no way to know why DiBs was killed: it could be misguidance, it could be defense. Both are diametrically opposed, and there is just no guessing which one it was.

[Vengeance]

Tapper, on Oct 21 2008, 11:09 AM, said:

The Dude, on Oct 21 2008, 06:04 PM, said:

I've been catching up. Few more minutes and 'll be back to post my thoughts. One thing I noticed, if you are a vet, please reply. Why can we gather no info from the Dibs NK? He was active and took control of the board when he was on. Is there nothing to learn from that? Just my 2 cents anyway back in a sec to comment.

DiBs'es death coulc be caused because he was spot on.
It could be caused because he was vocal.
It could also be caused because people want us to believe that he was spot on.
It could be because the killers want us to look at the people he was attacking as the ones removing him, or they could have removed him because he was attacking them.

There is simply no way to know why DiBs was killed: it could be misguidance, it could be defense. Both are diametrically opposed, and there is just no guessing which one it was.

It was WIFOM.....

[The Dude]

drinksinbars, on Oct 21 2008, 01:49 AM, said:

funny thing is i dont know why i wasnt killed off night 1, its not something i like talking about, but tbh its been bugging the shit out of me and i leave it to others to mention it and wait and wait and wait. Now if morgo was a killer and knew i was on his tail would he nk me or would he leave me? To nk me implicates morgo badly, not only by how i play and how he was the focus of that play nigth 1 but also by the 'feud' we supposedly have. That I wasnt night killed could easily mean that the killers didnt want that implication made. When i play killer (dk should remember) i choose night kills that deliberately incite confusion and discussion. By taking out jslr there wasnt that much action syurrounding him, so his death was ambigious and didnt really result int he hounding of an inno that the kilelr should look for in night kills.

The only reason i can see that a killer would want this is if they are already under pressure and want the game to cool down.

I also noticed someone doing the "if i die" bit?? who was that?

Still catching up, this caught my attention. He lets the cat out of the bag, wonders why he wasn't killed.... Does this give the killer the go ahead now? So now his death has become WIFOM material. Easy out for the person who's tail Dibs was on. I am still thinking that there is something weird about Morgy.

EDIT: Ok just read your posts, thanks guys.

This post has been edited by The Dude: 21 October 2008 - 04:32 PM

[Tapper]

Vengeance, on Oct 21 2008, 06:31 PM, said:

Tapper, on Oct 21 2008, 11:09 AM, said:

The Dude, on Oct 21 2008, 06:04 PM, said:

I've been catching up. Few more minutes and 'll be back to post my thoughts. One thing I noticed, if you are a vet, please reply. Why can we gather no info from the Dibs NK? He was active and took control of the board when he was on. Is there nothing to learn from that? Just my 2 cents anyway back in a sec to comment.

DiBs'es death coulc be caused because he was spot on.
It could be caused because he was vocal.
It could also be caused because people want us to believe that he was spot on.
It could be because the killers want us to look at the people he was attacking as the ones removing him, or they could have removed him because he was attacking them.

There is simply no way to know why DiBs was killed: it could be misguidance, it could be defense. Both are diametrically opposed, and there is just no guessing which one it was.

It was WIFOM.....

Yeah Venge, it was... but I decided to describe it other than give it the abbreviation or whatever it's spelled

[The Dude]

Thanks Tapper

[Grief]

I have finished the death animation.
From now on, all times/announcements I post will be done as PS, and everything else as grief.
Im quite tired from school etc, so didnt spend quite as long on it as some as the others, and diBs av was irritating to try use. Im sure you'll get the message though...

This post has been edited by Grief: 21 October 2008 - 04:55 PM

[The Dude]

Tapper, on Oct 21 2008, 02:19 AM, said:

Tapper, on Oct 20 2008, 08:34 PM, said:

Finally done with my re-read from page 20 up. couple of pages of copy-page and notes, most of it not worth mentioning but a few things that tie in nicely.

First thing I noticed:
the swing from Morgoth to alt. It was a swing, no denying, but what is interesting is that it was preceded by people saying: gotta go, vote Morgoth (Baudin). Also, the swing started earlier then votes, it started with announcements of willingness to swing vote. For the Gem-Tapper link: curiously, both of us announced to swing to Morgoth if need be, though this time, with Gem saying it first. This was at a time when Morgoth had 5 votes (DiBs, Lace, alt, Yellow (the pm thing), Baudin) and no-one else more than 2 (Yellow). That particular train started with just DiBses vote at 3:43 and built up to 4 votes at 5:10. So, not as fast as the alt146 lynch, but definately a train picking up steam, and no less interesting then the actual lynch train. Hasn't been mentioned yet, however.

Then alt146 is singled out as a slick and lynchhappy person by Gavin.

DiBs has quoted the train nicely, the announcing to switch order however was:
Gavin (vote)
J_slr (vote)
Lisheo (vote)
The Dude (vote)
JA (vote)
Gem announces willingness to swing (was on no-one),
Tapper announces willingness to swing (vote was on Yellow),
DiBs announces he is tempted to swing to alt146 (vote was on Morgoth) if Morgy doesn't go through,
Venge announces willingness to switch,
DiBs declares willingness to switch ,
Tapper removes vote, votes alt,
Venge votes,
DiBs votes,
Mocker (vote),
Gem votes.

So, there are 5 votes in quick succession, then there is first compromising/scouting if there is going to be the possibility for the lynch.
The train was fired up by the first 5 to resemble a threat to the Morgoth train, which, incidentally, 2 of the supposed Morgy symps were willing to jump on when he was the best lynchtarget. Both the timing of my scouting for both lynch opportunities were around the L-5 mark. I'd say that makes more or less certain that i wasn't particularly favouring Morgoth or looking out to save him.

This is what I'm talking about, dkt. It was two trains building, one relatively fast, then an even faster one. Neither has seen much discussion apart from the second part of the second train. Also, it's not a case, I'm asking what you make of it and the lack of discussion.

@Tapper- You seem rather obsessed with the 2 stage train on Alt. I think one thing you are failing to point out is that the Day 1 case on Morgy was absolute day 1 crap. (So was alt's but not quite as crap imo). If I recall correctly the case was that he made a post to PS about roles/scenarios speculation or some such. Really? I am not voting for that. Alt- did seem lynch happy, he didn't post much content or give reasons. At the time I voted he looked more suspicious to me than Morgy.

So the early people on Alt, didn't think Morg was guilty or were trying to take preassure off morg, meaning Morg is suspicious.

The later people on the alt train either didn't care and wanted a lynch for info, or were scum and just wanted a lynch.

Which leads us........

nowhere. I really don't think, that in and of itself, examining this train will lead to much. Gonna go back and try to compare it with some other notes to see if I can get anywhere.

[Tapper]

The Dude, on Oct 21 2008, 07:01 PM, said:

Tapper, on Oct 21 2008, 02:19 AM, said:

Tapper, on Oct 20 2008, 08:34 PM, said:

Finally done with my re-read from page 20 up. couple of pages of copy-page and notes, most of it not worth mentioning but a few things that tie in nicely.

First thing I noticed:
the swing from Morgoth to alt. It was a swing, no denying, but what is interesting is that it was preceded by people saying: gotta go, vote Morgoth (Baudin). Also, the swing started earlier then votes, it started with announcements of willingness to swing vote. For the Gem-Tapper link: curiously, both of us announced to swing to Morgoth if need be, though this time, with Gem saying it first. This was at a time when Morgoth had 5 votes (DiBs, Lace, alt, Yellow (the pm thing), Baudin) and no-one else more than 2 (Yellow). That particular train started with just DiBses vote at 3:43 and built up to 4 votes at 5:10. So, not as fast as the alt146 lynch, but definately a train picking up steam, and no less interesting then the actual lynch train. Hasn't been mentioned yet, however.

Then alt146 is singled out as a slick and lynchhappy person by Gavin.

DiBs has quoted the train nicely, the announcing to switch order however was:
Gavin (vote)
J_slr (vote)
Lisheo (vote)
The Dude (vote)
JA (vote)
Gem announces willingness to swing (was on no-one),
Tapper announces willingness to swing (vote was on Yellow),
DiBs announces he is tempted to swing to alt146 (vote was on Morgoth) if Morgy doesn't go through,
Venge announces willingness to switch,
DiBs declares willingness to switch ,
Tapper removes vote, votes alt,
Venge votes,
DiBs votes,
Mocker (vote),
Gem votes.

So, there are 5 votes in quick succession, then there is first compromising/scouting if there is going to be the possibility for the lynch.
The train was fired up by the first 5 to resemble a threat to the Morgoth train, which, incidentally, 2 of the supposed Morgy symps were willing to jump on when he was the best lynchtarget. Both the timing of my scouting for both lynch opportunities were around the L-5 mark. I'd say that makes more or less certain that i wasn't particularly favouring Morgoth or looking out to save him.

This is what I'm talking about, dkt. It was two trains building, one relatively fast, then an even faster one. Neither has seen much discussion apart from the second part of the second train. Also, it's not a case, I'm asking what you make of it and the lack of discussion.

@Tapper- You seem rather obsessed with the 2 stage train on Alt. I think one thing you are failing to point out is that the Day 1 case on Morgy was absolute day 1 crap. (So was alt's but not quite as crap imo). If I recall correctly the case was that he made a post to PS about roles/scenarios speculation or some such. Really? I am not voting for that. Alt- did seem lynch happy, he didn't post much content or give reasons. At the time I voted he looked more suspicious to me than Morgy.

So the early people on Alt, didn't think Morg was guilty or were trying to take preassure off morg, meaning Morg is suspicious.

The later people on the alt train either didn't care and wanted a lynch for info, or were scum and just wanted a lynch.

Which leads us........

nowhere. I really don't think, that in and of itself, examining this train will lead to much. Gonna go back and try to compare it with some other notes to see if I can get anywhere.

Well, DiBs vote was based on something resembling a case in progress. Lace jumped on, and only with Yellow was the "zomg, he posted to spoiler heaven! He must be roled!!?!!11!!" case made. Then, interestingly, not Yellow was targeted by Gavin, but the first person to use it to validate his vote; alt.

[The Dude]

On a side note, I am not sure if I like the alt-less game (no pun intended). Seems like some people are basing their play on discarding certain people because "thats how inno player X plays" I feel like I am playing poker with professionals but can't look at my hole cards But I guess thats the nature of the beast. <------- not that beast.

[Tapper]

Altless is difficult since you can't hide behind an alt. For some recognizable players, it doesn't matter since everyone knows from their first post/case who they are, for others who prefer anonimity, it can be a curse. I don't really like altless, cause I love being inconspicuous and my poststyle & playstyle are suited to that. unable to do that in altless, tho.