[The Dude]

Tapper, on Oct 21 2008, 10:08 AM, said:

The Dude, on Oct 21 2008, 07:01 PM, said:

Tapper, on Oct 21 2008, 02:19 AM, said:

Tapper, on Oct 20 2008, 08:34 PM, said:

Finally done with my re-read from page 20 up. couple of pages of copy-page and notes, most of it not worth mentioning but a few things that tie in nicely.

First thing I noticed:
the swing from Morgoth to alt. It was a swing, no denying, but what is interesting is that it was preceded by people saying: gotta go, vote Morgoth (Baudin). Also, the swing started earlier then votes, it started with announcements of willingness to swing vote. For the Gem-Tapper link: curiously, both of us announced to swing to Morgoth if need be, though this time, with Gem saying it first. This was at a time when Morgoth had 5 votes (DiBs, Lace, alt, Yellow (the pm thing), Baudin) and no-one else more than 2 (Yellow). That particular train started with just DiBses vote at 3:43 and built up to 4 votes at 5:10. So, not as fast as the alt146 lynch, but definately a train picking up steam, and no less interesting then the actual lynch train. Hasn't been mentioned yet, however.

Then alt146 is singled out as a slick and lynchhappy person by Gavin.

DiBs has quoted the train nicely, the announcing to switch order however was:
Gavin (vote)
J_slr (vote)
Lisheo (vote)
The Dude (vote)
JA (vote)
Gem announces willingness to swing (was on no-one),
Tapper announces willingness to swing (vote was on Yellow),
DiBs announces he is tempted to swing to alt146 (vote was on Morgoth) if Morgy doesn't go through,
Venge announces willingness to switch,
DiBs declares willingness to switch ,
Tapper removes vote, votes alt,
Venge votes,
DiBs votes,
Mocker (vote),
Gem votes.

So, there are 5 votes in quick succession, then there is first compromising/scouting if there is going to be the possibility for the lynch.
The train was fired up by the first 5 to resemble a threat to the Morgoth train, which, incidentally, 2 of the supposed Morgy symps were willing to jump on when he was the best lynchtarget. Both the timing of my scouting for both lynch opportunities were around the L-5 mark. I'd say that makes more or less certain that i wasn't particularly favouring Morgoth or looking out to save him.

This is what I'm talking about, dkt. It was two trains building, one relatively fast, then an even faster one. Neither has seen much discussion apart from the second part of the second train. Also, it's not a case, I'm asking what you make of it and the lack of discussion.

@Tapper- You seem rather obsessed with the 2 stage train on Alt. I think one thing you are failing to point out is that the Day 1 case on Morgy was absolute day 1 crap. (So was alt's but not quite as crap imo). If I recall correctly the case was that he made a post to PS about roles/scenarios speculation or some such. Really? I am not voting for that. Alt- did seem lynch happy, he didn't post much content or give reasons. At the time I voted he looked more suspicious to me than Morgy.

So the early people on Alt, didn't think Morg was guilty or were trying to take preassure off morg, meaning Morg is suspicious.

The later people on the alt train either didn't care and wanted a lynch for info, or were scum and just wanted a lynch.

Which leads us........

nowhere. I really don't think, that in and of itself, examining this train will lead to much. Gonna go back and try to compare it with some other notes to see if I can get anywhere.

Well, DiBs vote was based on something resembling a case in progress. Lace jumped on, and only with Yellow was the "zomg, he posted to spoiler heaven! He must be roled!!?!!11!!" case made. Then, interestingly, not Yellow was targeted by Gavin, but the first person to use it to validate his vote; alt.

Gavin hasn't posted a bunch, but all have been rather constructive and insightful (more than I can say for me ) He doesn't strike me as the Killer type. Are killers typically the first to cast a vote on a train? Cause if he is a Killer and he could forsee that his opening vote on alt would lead to 2-stage speed train he is a genius and we should give him the game now

[Yellow]

drinksinbars, on Oct 21 2008, 09:04 AM, said:

@yellow -im voting in green grabs everones marbles

Lol, what the fuck was that about?

Obviously I was mistaken about Gem - she was very much top of my suspect list. Since Morgoth was so willing to get her lynched at the end of the day, I no longer suspected they were teamed, and thought Morgoth was probably inno.

But then Gem came back inno, so maybe Mogoth isn't. I can't get rid of this feeling that Morgy is in team evil, and the following post by lish just screamed it even louder.

Lisheo, on Oct 21 2008, 03:00 PM, said:

What content do you have? You've simply challenged me to put my opinions out the last four or five times we've talked. My suspects are Yellow, Silencer, and Gavin. Not Morgy, because I think maybe the DiBs kill was an attempt to make him look like scum. But also Lace looks kinda dodgy. And I'm not sure about you or Tapper. You've both been dominating arguments, and not coming up with much, really.

So, lish... you're saying that out of the four people voting for Gem at the end of the day, only Morgoth is considered to be not scummy? That's a very confident statement to make.

[Tapper]

@ the dude: what a killer would do or would not do is pretty irrelevant: it's all about expectations and going against expectations again. The killing of J_slr could well be to call attention away from gavin and onto Morgoth or away from Gavin saving Morgoth, etcetera.
More, if you can do it one day before the end-game (where everyone has to commit), it's day 1, late in the day, when everything is chaos. If Morgoth is gavin's partner, he might have decided that he had little to lose; he had something of a case, a sympathy thing (no meta reasons; quite the gentleman, and praiseworthy) to build upon and hide behind and every vote on alt wouldn't be on Morgoth, now would it.

Altho normally, one would entrust such a diversion to a symp.

[mocker]

hey hey

fuck, lots of theories flying around, only skimmed so have to go back n read in detail before i have my say

[Jump Around]

Grief, on Oct 21 2008, 07:46 PM, said:

I have finished the death animation.
From now on, all times/announcements I post will be done as PS, and everything else as grief.
Im quite tired from school etc, so didnt spend quite as long on it as some as the others, and diBs av was irritating to try use. Im sure you'll get the message though...

hahahahaha, can we make the lower left part dib's new avatar?

[Jump Around]

To continue discussions with The Dude, like Tapper says, the night kills can be interpreted two ways. The trick is to know when to call the bluff.

Look at J_str and Gem, now we know he wasn't killed by her for his "fat woman" comment.

As for dibs, I'm not sure who exactly it points at (he had quite an extensive suspect list and was very vocal), but I remember Tapper and Morgoth being high up. Bluff? Everyone's call.

[Vengeance]

Jump Around, on Oct 21 2008, 01:09 PM, said:

To continue discussions with The Dude, like Tapper says, the night kills can be interpreted two ways. The trick is to know when to call the bluff.

Look at J_str and Gem, now we know he wasn't killed by her for his "fat woman" comment.

As for dibs, I'm not sure who exactly it points at (he had quite an extensive suspect list and was very vocal), but I remember Tapper and Morgoth being high up. Bluff? Everyone's call.

Dibs is really a good target to take out at night cause he tosses suspicion on almost everyone. Which means that there really isn't anyone who can be pointed at. NK are WIFOM and really it is useless to talk about them.

[Yellow]

You know, on my last read through, Baudin struck me as very under the radar, which I don't like.

I'm going to go trawl through his posts to see if he's added anything of use or even got into debate with anyone.

Is this Baudin's first game? Just out of curiosity.

[Yellow]

Vengeance, on Oct 21 2008, 07:12 PM, said:

Dibs is really a good target to take out at night cause he tosses suspicion on almost everyone. Which means that there really isn't anyone who can be pointed at. NK are WIFOM and really it is useless to talk about them.

I actually agree with this. Let's leave the wifom for spoilers PMs.

[Jump Around]

I think so. At least, here.

[mocker]

i dont think the kills show much to be honest, gem had a lot of ppl ready to lynch her and many ppl offline who may have been ready to lynch her if they were on. now yeah it could be one of the more vocal players who vigged her but maybe not, it could have been anyone

dibs is a harder one, but once again doesnt tell us much. it could have been someone on his comprehensive list. or it could be someone who wants us to think its someone on the list, or it could be someone who wants us to think that its someone wantin us to think its someone on the list lol etc etc

This post has been edited by mocker: 21 October 2008 - 06:15 PM

[Obdigore]

Old Yeller is about, look out!

La La La - Tell me JA, from 1-10, 1 being inno, 10 being scummiest of the scummy, where am I on the weasal scum-detectormatic?

[Yellow]

Obdigore, on Oct 21 2008, 07:15 PM, said:

Old Yeller is about, look out!

La La La - Tell me JA, from 1-10, 1 being inno, 10 being scummiest of the scummy, where am I on the weasal scum-detectormatic?

It's complex. As in 4 - 6i.

The 4 part is real, the rest is just in JA's head.

[Yellow]

Right, forgive me for this, but I don't know a better way to quote all of these posts. I did a search in this forum for Baudin's posts, and results have no quoting function, and I'll be fucked if I'm going to trawl through 37 pages to pick them all out.

Here's the search results:

http://www.malazanempire.com/IPBforum/inde...mp;highlite=%2B

Have a read (it will take you 2 minutes). Baudin has offered nothing to this game, and so it's about time that changed. He's been far too under the radar, and either he's a killer who's enjoying us all arguing and he's getting an easy ride... or he's an inno who is just wasting all our time by not contributing.

vote Baudin

I want to hear something more than he's been spouting so far.

[Jump Around]

Well, I don't think you're a killer, which means I would need to do unhealthy and dishonest weaseling if I want to get you lynched, and it hurts me


On a symp-o-meter, I would give you a 7. No problem with your vote on Lish (I think, or is it mocker?), although the timing after 2 quick votes on Silencer could be seen as... interesting.

edit: Ok, Lisheo indeed. I got you confused with dktorode for a minutes

This post has been edited by Jump Around: 21 October 2008 - 06:28 PM

[mocker]

and DK, its not hard to make an inno look bad, look at wat you guys are doin layin waste to each other with pants reasons as your back up. thats why ive been pretty quiet. i'd rather be sure. if i have something to add to the game i will, but i'm not gona do wat loads of ppl are doing and just repeat each others ideas and accusations to absolutely no avail other than yet another inno lynch

altho sayin that Silencer does worry me

EDIT: grammaaar

This post has been edited by mocker: 21 October 2008 - 06:29 PM

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 3. There are 16 hours 30 minutes remaining

14 dancing queens on the floor: Baudin, Dktorode ,Gavin, Jump Around, Lacedaemonian, Lisheo, Mocker, Morgoth, Obdigore, Silencer, Tapper, The Dude, Vengence, Yellow

8 votes for lynch 7 votes for night

2 votes for Silencer (Jump Around, Lisheo)
1 vote for Lisheo (Obdigore)
1 vote Mocker (dktorode)
1 vote Baudin(Yellow)

Not voted : Baudin, Gavin, Lacedaemonian, Mocker, Morgoth,Silencer, Tapper, The Dude, Vengence,

[Jump Around]

Vengeance is around, I wouldn't mind hearing his suspects, instead of always saying who is not suspect and why we don't reason well.

[Obdigore]

Jump Around, on Oct 21 2008, 01:26 PM, said:

Well, I don't think you're a killer, which means I would need to do unhealthy and dishonest weaseling if I want to get you lynched, and it hurts me


On a symp-o-meter, I would give you a 7. No problem with your vote on Lish (I think, or is it mocker?), although the timing after 2 quick votes on Silencer could be seen as... interesting.

edit: Ok, Lisheo indeed. I got you confused with dktorode for a minutes

I'm fine with lynching Silencer. My vote on Lish is a mixture of him having the most posts without saying anything, and his jumping on silencer right after you put a pressure vote on him.

And don't confuse me with DK. He is an evil south afrikaan man!

[Jump Around]

Venge day so far:

Vengeance, on Oct 21 2008, 05:15 PM, said:

I think that since there isn't a BP in the game the killers have all of the information that they need on who to kill. It would be helpful to us to know who vig whom. As it would take away one of the WIFOM's. Plus by letting us know if someone vigged Gem it would give us information on her train. Who was pushing for her lynch cause they new that she was an innocent and what not.

Vengeance, on Oct 21 2008, 05:18 PM, said:

Jump Around, on Oct 21 2008, 09:16 AM, said:

Well, at the end it's the vig decision, and it ain't me

Yes I agree. I am just pointing out the reasons for the vig to come forward.

Vengeance, on Oct 21 2008, 05:36 PM, said:

Since obelix fell in to that vat when he was a child....We have no choice...

Vengeance, on Oct 21 2008, 07:31 PM, said:

It was WIFOM.....

Vengeance, on Oct 21 2008, 09:12 PM, said:

Dibs is really a good target to take out at night cause he tosses suspicion on almost everyone. Which means that there really isn't anyone who can be pointed at. NK are WIFOM and really it is useless to talk about them.

I mean, come on...