[Lisheo]

As horrible as it is, I LOLed at that death scene

[dktorode]

You have a question lish then ask.

[mocker]

lol i still think morgo's was better!!

didnt expect gavin

to be honest i expected obdi or dk to get taken out. dk more than obdi tho, as dk's provin to be vocal and ruthless. that sarky comment bout a healer must have worked

[Lisheo]

Do you have any hints to the identity of the first vig, DK? this is important, cus I have a theory that needs a bit of info on the second vig.

[The Dude]

mocker, on Oct 23 2008, 02:10 PM, said:

lol i still think morgo's was better!!

didnt expect gavin

to be honest i expected obdi or dk to get taken out. dk more than obdi tho, as dk's provin to be vocal and ruthless. that sarky comment bout a healer must have worked

There is no way Obdi would be taken out. He is either Scum or he throws way to much confusion into todays essential lynch.

[dktorode]

Woa there skippy i low you want to vote JA but you do know your leaving it open for a team killer who if you are wrong about him. I advise to be safe we don't just put down votes all willy nilly like now. Four saun votes is all it takes.

[The Dude]

Dammit, I had Gavin as a PI so that lynch really doesn't help me at all.

[The Dude]

All right I will work up some things on Baudin. My group that I would vote for is : Baudin, Silencer, Obdi.

One thing to note. Before he died, Gavins last few Posts were about wanting to vote Silencer. He brought it up multiple times. Something to keep in mind.

[dktorode]

Ughh fucking phone and the predictive text again. Ok so Gavin going is not to much of a suprise. The killer didn't go for me because he is being carefull of a healer. Anyway. Lisheo i receive no information about the other vig. I was just as suprised as everybody else was.

This post has been edited by dktorode: 23 October 2008 - 09:27 PM

[The Dude]

Gavin, on Oct 23 2008, 08:38 AM, said:

Fuck it, its the lynch then. I wanted to hold off and talk about Silencer there.

and he tried to unvote before JA hammered. I know NK's are WIFOM, but its possible someone didn't want to hear that case. Gavin was a solid player. His kill was unexpected...to me at least. Anyone have ideas why he might have been killed? He barely said anything

[The Dude]

dktorode, on Oct 23 2008, 02:24 PM, said:

Ughh fucking phone and the predictive text again. Ok so Gavin going is not to much of a suprise. The killer didn't go for me because he is being carefull cant a healer. Anyway. Lisheo i receive no information about the other vig. I was just as suprised as everybody else was.

Why wasn't Gavin a surprise?

[Lisheo]

Truth be told, Gavin had never committed himself to any original ideas... I had had only the one, DK and Obdi, which was SMASHED... i can't see the killers wanting to take out anyone who might provoke a dangeorus lynch right now, which is why I'm tempted to vote Baudin. Nothing has impacted on him so far.

[Lisheo]

DK: Can I answer you honestly?

[dktorode]

Because Gavin is a solid player.

[mocker]

hmm had gavin ever had any other theories bout anyone?

the silencer one would be fairly obvious but still something to think about. with all the double bluffs we're wrappin round everything it would be the perfect time to get away with an obvious kill

[dktorode]

Answer me honestly? Did i ask a question?

[mocker]

DK btw is that the wizard offa those diskworld point n click games? its been buggin me lol i no ive seen it before!!

[Obdigore]

His first magical vote in the game, on vengeance, but he is suspicious of me as well. Laying groundwork me thinks?

Jump Around said:

T-T-T-T-T-Triple funky post!

After re-read, of the two, I find Vengeance the most suspicious.

Obdigore is focusing on me, so he's either inno and worried I'm a killer after my hate post last game, or a killer acting like this. Then, he's tried against Gem, and that's his natural hormonal unbalance.

Venge, on the other hand, has tried to lynch around when one target was failing, myself, dibs, morgoth (although, strangely, not dktorode. Hmmm....), and I don't see he has any personal reasons to do this, besides the suspicious lets-get-rid-of-the-dangerous-opposition mentioned above.

Vote Vengeance for now.

Another post later in the day when someone questions his voting intentions:

Jump Around said:

I'm also around until deadline.

I like my vote on Vengeance, although I would switch to Obdi, I'm ashamed to say, for pure meta-reasons since he's on my list.

If we go the low-poster way, it's now a tie between Yellow and Leamenaddeanton, I would prefer Yellow just for showing a bad example.

And here he helps kill alt146, after a train has already formed. It is just for a day 1 lynch, but it is worth noting.

Jump Around said:

Sorry, I was kicked out of the computer without warning. (Actually, there was warning, but caught in the game I didn't really pay attention. The open picture of Photoshop with Lisheo and the Bee-Gees kinda destroyed the illusion that I was doing something important )

Now I'm only passing by since the arguments of "mafia day time out" can only get you so far.

This is a CF game, and lynching is good. Of the two I prefer

remove vote
vote alt146

I agree with dktorode he played it smooth and non-conspicuous for the whole day, until, I guess, he was called up by dktorode.

And now he once againt pushes his Veng Lynch idea

Jump Around said:

OK, a quick re-read.

DiscoWeasel AfroJumpy the 3rd does NOT approve of the following posts:

Quote

(Vengeance @ Oct 17 2008, 08:49 PM)
Ok so you guys want to lynch Alt....I don't really think that he has done anything lynch worthy but god knows that I have lynched people for less on day one.

If we have the people then I will vote for him.

Quote

(Vengeance @ Oct 17 2008, 08:58 PM)
Although I seriously doubt that Alt is Scum....After all nobody at all has defended him.

So all that this lynch will give us is a train to look at. Since it is going to be a speed train here at the end. Those of you who have pushed this along are going to be under a lot of suspicion. I am not changing my vote just pointing out what tomorrow will bring.

All this before the CF on alt146

Post 1: "Hmmm, looks like we got a train on an inno. Let's get him lynched and insist it's not my fault"

Post 2: "OK, the inno is almost lynched. Let's prepare the ammo for tomorrow's accusations"

I mean, Vengeance votes for someone never seems to even considered could be guilty, and only one type of player knows who's who on day 1...

Ironically, I won't vote for him yet because a) I spent already day 1 pressuring him and people will wonder if I don't have some repressed crush on the 'Kat ( It's still a strange coincidence that the two behaviors that raised my arm hair so far came from the same player, though).

Also, b ) is slightly meta, I'm wondering if Venge was a killer he would be such a bad one...

Anyways, there's another good point that was raised, ironically by the same 'Kat:

I'm not sure what was with that constant (and sometimes personal) harassment of Morgy by Lace. I don't know if it's symp activity, like suggested, or something else that I don't see, but I'll have to re-read all that.

He calls attention to Veng, but he dosen't vote for him again, that would look fishy. JA then goes and votes Lace for 'revealing killer', really?

Jump Around said:

WTF? Is he revealing killer? Bad choice of words? Joke? I don't know and I don't really care. He's still on Morgoth's ass and I still don't get why. Most of his posts are about getting people to react to him. Jokes at Venge's wife, votes and attacks on Morgoth (calling him a girl), voting right after Silencer for the same target and for no reason...


I believe we need to vote Lace off. Everything I see is the work of an experienced symp, which makes no sense if it is indeed his first game, but how do we know that? Or he's an experienced killer knowing we normally look at the "under the radar" player (maybe learning quickly from the day 1 lynch, that's how we chose alt146).

vote Lacedaemonian.

I'm normally not too keen on lynching what I think is a symp, but in this case, he's doing too good a job, we keep reacting to him instead of looking properly for killers. Either we ignore him completely, which is hard, or we lynch him.

He then says this to Gavin(who just died)

Quote

It's Vengeance, like I said before. But no-one really agreed so I accept it.

You say I play different because don't take control. I think you remember the games where I had funky roles or reasons to mess up people's minds. I'm a team player, and this is a normal game, I note what I find suspicious and what others find suspicious. Why would I want to railroad anyone?

After Gavin was questioning him on why he was playing different. Quite the 'inno' reply there.
And then BAM! right back onto Venge

Quote

Actually, Gavin has a point. It's almost 20 hours left, and the huge majority hasn't had their say in this day yet.

remove vote
vote Vengeance

At least my position is honest. I still don't think Lace is inno, it just doesn't compute, but I think Vengeance might be a killer.

Oh but wait! Lace could still be a killer, especially with Morgoth... or something

Jump Around said:

I want to add that I still believe that Lace could be a killer, not a symp.

His obsession with Morgoth, out of the blue and without reason, is what gets me. But there has been so much talk in this game so far about "symps", if Lace is an unexperienced killer he might be thinking about this, and be afraid to lynch/NK him.

Now, if Morgoth said something that gave proof to Lace that he, for sure, wasn't a symp, then Lace might have seen him as a safe lynch and that's how it possibly got started. I don't remember who Morgoth attacked early in the game, but I don't think it was Lace himself, so maybe Morgy said something about Lace's partner that got him reeled.

Then later on day 2, DIBS says this and JA responds:

Jump Around said:

Quote

(drinksinbars @ Oct 20 2008, 12:59 PM)
@ja - thats a very uncomplicated game your playing.

Uh?

Guess who died that night? Yea, DIBs did. Interesting yet?

Later in day 2

Jump Around said:

I have been re-reading Gem's posts since the NK and it does bug me a little how she was quick to point that J_slr's death was pointing at her.

Honestly, if some similar thing happened to me (eg Obdigore dies on night 1) I would have though "Oh shit" and try to let it pass, unless someone brings up the point. That's of course, assuming I'm inno and worried of the frame.

I think it might be a "talking villain" syndrome, trying to come up with what how an inno would react and acting it, ending up slightly off.

That doesn't make myself want to change my vote right now, but it does confirm that I will switch to Gem if needed.

So you are willing to kill Gem, Obdi, Veng, Lace, and Morg at this point? Right now that is 3/5 innos, and I know I am inno so I put it at JA targetting 4/5 innos, at least. Why is the typically very good JA only looking at and working at lynching innocents in this game?

[Obdigore]

Now later, we get this from him

Jump Around said:

Quote

(Gavin @ Oct 21 2008, 05:29 AM)
So its night and we didn't get a lynch on Day 2, with a CF and presumably no Finders? I have to say thats a little disappointing, we only get info from lynches and NKs and we lost one source there.

Its making me believe that one of the 4 up for lynch was a killer and there was enough misdirection around to stop the lynch going ahead.
These are the 4 and the votes.

4 Votes Morgoth: DiBs, Lacedaemonian, Baudin, The Dude
4 Votes Lacedaemonian: Vengeance, Gem Windcaster, Tapper, Obdigore
4 Votes Gem: Silencer, Yellow, Gavin, Morgoth
2 votes Vengeance: Jump Around, Dktorode

Since I made the case on Gem and have since Yellow had added to it, I am inclined to think its Gem, especially after Tapper complimented the case, voted then removed the vote and switched around. I guess we'll wait and see what Night will bring first.

Oh, I missed this the first time around. I thought it was a Grief vote recap (Put avatars, dammit!)

I have to say I agree with what you're saying. I think the importance of lynches is clear enough in player's head on this board, instead of wasting my time repeating it I think I should do like you and wonder why it didn't happen this time around.

I do believe there's a killer somewhere within these fours, too.

Edit to avoid the triple-post.

Venge and Gem are the two I found suspicious at the time I went to bed, and Obdi is the one whose behavior I didn't like after that. And look:

4 Votes Lacedaemonian: Vengeance, Gem Windcaster, Tapper, Obdigore

This is funny because JA started the case against Lace, and now apparently anyone on the lace train is evil? 3 of those votes on Lace are confirmed (CF findings) inno, and the fourth is mine, who I KNOW is innocent.

And here we have, day 3, rule number one of killer play... confuse people

Jump Around said:

I would like also to put a discordant opinion: I, for one, am not 100% convinced that Gem was vigged and dibs was NKed.

I do think it's very probable, but if you think the opposite, you have the scenario we mentioned a few times that if Gem is inno, then X is inno. If this reasoning was false and X is a killer and Gem did turn out to be inno, then NK her would have caused a shock that may have released the pression on X.

I'm just saying in case. Why dibs would have been vigged, in that scenario, is not so obvious, but who knows.

And then we have the Weasel point off the trains where people where innnos were lynched, and point onto the trains of a person who was NKed? What?

Jump Around said:

mean, COME ON!



OK, so Gem was inno. There has been pressure on people who refused to finish her and forced us in a day without lynch. Obdigore tried to revive a dead horse Lace train, which I found suspicious. Why not finish Gem then if she was inno? Same applies to the rest.

I think the Gem train was already scum-heavy and they didn't want to go all in with the inno CF coming. Also, leaving Gem around would have kept the idea that Gem might be guilty, and we would have discussed that for another wasted day, plus it adds pressure to those who are "attached" to her, i.e. would be her symps and such. Without the vig (I guess), that would have worked.

So: - I think there was one (few?) guilty on the failed Gem train, but not all since they knew she would come up inno and put pressure on the voters, they were hoping the innos would finish her.
- I wonder who had to gain by keeping the possibility that Gem was guilty one more day at least.


EDIT: here is the Gem train at the end of the night, for completion:

4 Votes Gem: Silencer, Yellow, Gavin, Morgoth

Look at this in the middle of Day 3, according to the mighty JA, he is going to bite himself if I am a killer... quite the turn around, eh?

Quote

@Lish: I don't really want to "expose" the vig, I don't fully agree with Dktorode who wants him to reveal. I do think one of the killers might be there, it's an idea I explained earlier.

@Obdigore: Well, if Morgoth refused to vote Lace and you find this suspicious, why didn't you find it suspicious yesterday?

Anyways, I'm not interested in arguing with Obdigore, he's either the symp and I'm playing his game, or he's an inno and us clashing doesn't help (Sadly, I don't feel he's a killer, if he is I'll bite myself after this game). If there is fresh arguments against Lace, I'm game. I am still happy with those I brought forward yesterday for my own vote.

And then day 3, he decides it must be Silencer... someone he has never suspected before...

Jump Around said:

It's early in the day, let's try something new

vote Silencer

Because I can't remember what his opinion is on any of the subjects that came up so far, and his strange no-explaination votes.

And then he goes to bed, saying this:

Jump Around said:

OK, off to bed. I'm kinda waiting on Silencer, although if it comes to that I'd rather lynch someone in the Morgoth-Lace-Tapper-Vengeance group than a low content player, at least if we turn out right we have more info to play around with. There's more than one killer anyways.

Play nice

Hrm, you still have that vote on silencer, with lisheo voting right after you, but you are willing to lynch nearly half the other players? Interesting that the only thing you have said so far to DK is 'I agree with you, and you agree with me'.

Then JA spends the end of day three trying to get someone, anyone lynched. As long as that noose goes around someone's neck, he is happy. He still have his vote on Silencer, btw. Right at the end he changes to Morgoth to help that train finish up. Morgy Dies, and JA magically disappears for hours. He comes back at night 3 with this lovely little post

Jump Around said:

By the way, high-five to my fellow time-zoners, when the timer falls in our hands we manage to get the fucking lynches *slaps*

Which makes me again wonder why it got impossible to get a lynch day 2, both potential trains (Morgoth, Gem) were innos.

Here is as far at it went:
4 Votes Morgoth: DiBs, Lacedaemonian, Baudin, The Dude
4 Votes Gem: Silencer, Yellow, Gavin, Morgoth

I know from experience (maybe I can be corrected) that there's usually one killer per train, sometimes none, but rarely two. I think the stalemate happened because the two (I assume two) killers were each on their own train, early to not raise suspicions, and couldn't provide the incentive (and didn't want to, they don't need the lynches) to push for the other by having one switch from one train to the other, and with some ball-less innos around it just died.

We know dibs and Morgoth were inno, I would bet it's highly probable the killers are among the others, one in each trio.

He still dosen't think I am guilty, and he dosen't say anything about venge.

And then this

Jump Around said:

don't see we have low posters in this game.

What we have is many new players, with whose participation and enthousiasm I am happy, and if their posts are low on content, well, I'll give them extra leniency because a) it's not an obvious game when you start and b ) much of our own content is related to the altless setting and how we play now and normally, and that's impossible for them to contribute to that.

What I don't swallow so easily is the experienced dudes who are either playing bad inno games or fail at trying to hide their guilty role PM, i.e. Silencer and Vengeance come in mind.

Suddenly!, again, veng and silencer are prime targets.

And then day 4 hits, and here is his response

Jump Around said:

Quote

(The Dude @ Oct 22 2008, 08:09 PM)
We see whats happening here right?...
Tapper Gone: Lots of talk, vocal strong player
Yellow Gone: Strong Player vocal
Dibs: Strong Player, Vocal
Morgoth: Strong Player, Vocal

Gem: Played an off game from what I understand, was probably vigged. not much help.
J_slr and alt.. to early to learn much.

The Killers are obviously getting rid of the vocal, strong players. I think we need to look at some of these really quiet non-posters cause before you know it its going to be a bunch of noobs and the killers. I bet Spoiler Heaven is laughing their asses off right now.

Assuming they aren't Killers DKT JA and Venge should be worried >.<

Well, from these the killers killed only J_slr, Dibs and Yellow (for the last two, probably), so I don't think they are weeding off the "strong vocal players", to use your words.

So, "bunch of noobs and the killers", way too ignore the possibility of a noob killer. And to ignore Obdigore from your list of "suspiciously still alive", although watching him play I can forgive you that.

And we come to this:

Jump Around said:

It annoys me that two of my three candidates to be killer are at each other's throats (Lace and Vengeance), if that's distancing, give them an Oscar

The third one being Silencer.

Anyways, with the new CFs of both Morgoth and Tapper (Yellow to a lesser extent, he was less connected from what I remember), the intelligent thing to do would be a good re-read. I don't agree with Gavin, today is not lynch well or die even if we didn't hit any symp already (assuming 4 scums), but it's still worth the effort of a second look and proper cases.

Now it's by bedtime, though, and shitloads of hours left, I'll do that tomorrow with my morning coffee.

vote Silencer

just to piss him off for now and remind him I'm not happy he weaseled out of yesterday's lynch

He still dosent suspect me... and he is voting silencer once more...

And then comes the whole shit-fest of day 4. The bullshit cases, bullshit defences, and lynching of yet ANOTHER inno, orchestrated by JA.

Don't forget that JA was online and ready to post every single time night ended, except recently. Talking things over with his fellow killer is my guess, and JA normally dosen't leave until 2 hours ago, which is rather close to when night ended.

TLDR: JA = Killer, keeping everyone confused. He cozy'ed up to DK to get him on his side, he keeps getting inno's lynched and has yet to put up a good case on any single person. He also didn't have any major confrontations until Veng and I called him out today. That is NOT inno-JA play. inno-JA plays like inno-dibs, he's an ass to get people to reply and tempers to flare to see what comes out.

[Lisheo]

I'm confused, DK. see, I have an idea of who the roled player was, and I need you to clarify. If you need my idea first, I'm more than willing to give it.