[Lacedaemonian]

Morgoth, on Oct 21 2008, 11:18 PM, said:

Lacedaemonian, on Oct 22 2008, 12:14 AM, said:

mocker, on Oct 21 2008, 11:11 PM, said:

lace i still canny see why your so adament!

your 'detailed' accusations are still just conjecture! how are you so confident?

This whole game is based on conjecture. I like to think that I have applied intellect, logic, and an element of psychological profiling in making my case(s). The truth is my case is built on very limited evidence and a gut feeling. I am guessing this is how the game is played.

Aye, that is true. though thorough case building helps if only to show people where your suspicions are placed. You've presented a case on me, which is more than a lot of people here.

Morgoth - I apologise to you if you are innocent come the end of the game. Maybe you have just been mixing in some bad company? The problem there is - you did not do enough (for me) to distance yourself from the 'bad company'. In which case it is partly your fault you have been played. Sometimes a collective of people can be perceived as a threat. This is more true when that collective seem trigger happy and negative without enough cause.

mocker, on Oct 21 2008, 11:19 PM, said:

hmm a little bit less gut feeling i think lol

coz if your gut is rong you got the killers 1 up n us 1 down. boo! lol

the trouble is, by being too adament with no basis for it, when you in fact do get 'evidence' it will be obvious that your heavily twisting a simple statement to fit your needs. your certainty will make it v v hard for others to follow in your lead.

I think must people trust their gut feelings. Gut feelings in this case is just a less arrogant way of saying that I applied intellect, logic etc.

EDIT: Sorry I am typing slowly tonight. Sorting out clan business on xfire at the same time.

[Yellow]

Morgoth, on Oct 21 2008, 11:17 PM, said:

As for the heat on me day 1, I think how things shifted towards alt can be blamed almost purely on Yellow.

Woooooaaaah. Stop right there. You're trying to blame the alt lynch on me?

I did not vote for alt. Not at all. Your'e trying to lay blame on me for something I had absolutely nothing to do with.

[Morgoth]

Yellow, on Oct 22 2008, 12:24 AM, said:

Morgoth, on Oct 21 2008, 11:07 PM, said:

Ah. Lisheo is a difficult question. Mainly because he plays much like I did in my first game (malazan mafia 1 for you youngsters ). Naturally, it's difficult to say exactly how much of that is reall or not. I needed about 20 games to get half decent at this game, so perhaps I'm not the best of examples.

Hm. He is very flip-flopping I agree. Yet, I do not think it is reason enough to go for him at this point. Apart from your point there's little pointing to him being a killer. He might be a bad symp as I mentioned earlier mind you.

In the end, I agree he should be looked at more closely but I firmly believe that my case on Tapper is substansialy better.

Morgoth, if you truly believe that Lisheo should be looked at more closely, then you should take it upon yourself to do it. If you don't, it will come across as an enforcement of Lish's certainty that out of the four of us who were left on the Gem vote yesterday, you were the only one who he deemed to be not scummy. See below.

Lisheo, on Oct 21 2008, 03:00 PM, said:

What content do you have? You've simply challenged me to put my opinions out the last four or five times we've talked. My suspects are Yellow, Silencer, and Gavin. Not Morgy, because I think maybe the DiBs kill was an attempt to make him look like scum. But also Lace looks kinda dodgy. And I'm not sure about you or Tapper. You've both been dominating arguments, and not coming up with much, really.

Lish is clearly very defensive of you. Any idea why he might be symping you?

No, not really. As I said, I've never been a supporter of the defence=symp theory, but when that is said he might equally try to get me killed by acting as my symp. It sounds unlikely seeing how he's had the chance to vote for me in the past, but who knows. As for looking at him more closely, I was refering to further development. As of yet there's not much to say about Lisheo apart from him posting a lot and throwing votes at everything and its dog.

[Lisheo]

DK and Obdi. Both seemed very eager to pick on the low(content) posters. Not that Im not guilty of that myself. But both seperately going for two different targets with almost synchronised times?
Not only that, neither has really put the other into one of their arguments, although there is reason for that.
Not just that, there was the desired reveal of the vig. Yes, DK was opposed to it while Obdi was not, but that sounds like a bad cop-good cop role, almost. As I said when I first read the idea, that's only gonna help the killers, revealing who was vig. Yes, I know, team evil already more or less know who is who, but it would be handy to know who was vig if they are, say, intending to target roled members. Also, as they don't seem to really have all that much conversation between them, they both seem to me to be fairly familiar with each others ideas, which just seems like the kind of thing a killer pairing would bring about.
And Silencer? I really don't know. Maybe he's paired with Gavin as someone else said earlier, but if Tapper is indeed correct about him rarely posting, then that's probably unlikely. Im voting him just to put down some pressure, really.
And yes, I know saying that isn't gonna help accomplish that.

EDIT: Sorry Yellow, I just got you mixed up with obdi for some reason my bad!

This post has been edited by Lisheo: 21 October 2008 - 10:32 PM

[Morgoth]

Yellow, on Oct 22 2008, 12:28 AM, said:

Morgoth, on Oct 21 2008, 11:17 PM, said:

As for the heat on me day 1, I think how things shifted towards alt can be blamed almost purely on Yellow.

Woooooaaaah. Stop right there. You're trying to blame the alt lynch on me?

I did not vote for alt. Not at all. Your'e trying to lay blame on me for something I had absolutely nothing to do with.

If you read the rest of the posts, you'll notice that I never said that you voted for alt, or caused the shift intentionally. But you know, drinking stuff that's half metanol anyways probably doesn't help your eyesight

[mocker]

fair do's Lace

who are the 'bad company' then? that name almost makes them sound too cool for school black company shit lol makes ya wana be evil!!

[Yellow]

In fact, in light of the above post by Morgoth, plus the post by Lish, which is obviously a symp post trying to post shit about me being in some kind of cahoots with dk, I'm even more certain that Lish is symping for Morgoth.

remove vote

vote Morgoth

[Yellow]

Morgoth, on Oct 21 2008, 11:29 PM, said:

Yellow, on Oct 22 2008, 12:28 AM, said:

Morgoth, on Oct 21 2008, 11:17 PM, said:

As for the heat on me day 1, I think how things shifted towards alt can be blamed almost purely on Yellow.

Woooooaaaah. Stop right there. You're trying to blame the alt lynch on me?

I did not vote for alt. Not at all. Your'e trying to lay blame on me for something I had absolutely nothing to do with.

If you read the rest of the posts, you'll notice that I never said that you voted for alt, or caused the shift intentionally. But you know, drinking stuff that's half metanol anyways probably doesn't help your eyesight

you quite clearly stated that the alt "shift" can be blamed on me. Absolutely no way is that shit going to stick. I had nothing to do with that lynch whatsover.

I was voting for you.

[mocker]

woosaah

[Lisheo]

Sorry Yellow, i actually meant Obdi, but for some reason got mixed up between ye

[Morgoth]

Lacedaemonian, on Oct 22 2008, 12:27 AM, said:

Morgoth, on Oct 21 2008, 11:18 PM, said:

Lacedaemonian, on Oct 22 2008, 12:14 AM, said:

mocker, on Oct 21 2008, 11:11 PM, said:

lace i still canny see why your so adament!

your 'detailed' accusations are still just conjecture! how are you so confident?

This whole game is based on conjecture. I like to think that I have applied intellect, logic, and an element of psychological profiling in making my case(s). The truth is my case is built on very limited evidence and a gut feeling. I am guessing this is how the game is played.

Aye, that is true. though thorough case building helps if only to show people where your suspicions are placed. You've presented a case on me, which is more than a lot of people here.

Morgoth - I apologise to you if you are innocent come the end of the game. Maybe you have just been mixing in some bad company? The problem there is - you did not do enough (for me) to distance yourself from the 'bad company'. In which case it is partly your fault you have been played. Sometimes a collective of people can be perceived as a threat. This is more true when that collective seem trigger happy and negative without enough cause.

There's no need to appologice. We're both aiming to win the games for the innocents (at least I think you are) and so it's all in good faith.

When that is said, in regards to your comment about distancing myself from bad people. What bad people? I've certainly not seen proof of anyone's evil alleigance so far. How could I distance myself from a group of people we have yet to identify?

[Morgoth]

Yellow, on Oct 22 2008, 12:32 AM, said:

Morgoth, on Oct 21 2008, 11:29 PM, said:

Yellow, on Oct 22 2008, 12:28 AM, said:

Morgoth, on Oct 21 2008, 11:17 PM, said:

As for the heat on me day 1, I think how things shifted towards alt can be blamed almost purely on Yellow.

Woooooaaaah. Stop right there. You're trying to blame the alt lynch on me?

I did not vote for alt. Not at all. Your'e trying to lay blame on me for something I had absolutely nothing to do with.

If you read the rest of the posts, you'll notice that I never said that you voted for alt, or caused the shift intentionally. But you know, drinking stuff that's half metanol anyways probably doesn't help your eyesight

you quite clearly stated that the alt "shift" can be blamed on me. Absolutely no way is that shit going to stick. I had nothing to do with that lynch whatsover.

I was voting for you.

Which just shows again that you did not read the entire post. Context, Yellow. It often means quite a lot, as it does in this case. Sit down, take a deep breath, and read my post again.

[Yellow]

Mate, check the very first quote in that block you just posted. You can't just state that I am to blame for the shift in voting towards alt and not have it appear scummy.

You said it, right there at the top. You're trying to make people think I had something to do with something I did not. It won't stick. We all know how this game is played, man. You drop your insuations here and there, and it sticks by osmosis. But not this time, because I had absolutely nothing to do with the alt lynch.

And I'm breathing quite calmly, thanks.

[Tapper]

Yellow, on Oct 21 2008, 11:53 PM, said:

Tapper, just do it now. Otherwise there will six pages of crap for you to wade through. I'd rather you didn't wait for the attention on you to dissipate, thanks.

I would rather hear your defence now.

Bloody hell. I'd really rather not, but since you ask nicely I'll adress it now. I know it might be used as an argument against me; panicking and thus replying, sacrificing night time. Everything I quote here is Morgoth.

Quote

Now, there's a problem here and I hope you forgive me for this. I am too used to being able to access all people's posts in thread it never occured to me to do as I do in westeros game and copy posts that catch my eye into word. As a result, I have no direct links to posts and no direct quotes in this case for the simple reason that it's 23 and something pm and I'm not about to search through the 51 pages of thread just to find the few posts I want. Soo, you'll have to make do with my impressions and second hand descriptions, and hopefully your recolections will be enough to make you judge whether you find that I am onto something, or way out in happypappy land.

Fair enough, and since it is midnight, I'll do the same.

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Ever since DiBs (ironically enough) made me consider exactly why I thought Tapper to be innocent, my suspicion of Tapper has grown quite substansially. As I mentioned earlier, he seemed to have been caught up in DiBs the whirlwind for sticking out for me, which made me very sympathetic. He's the only player of yet I've named PI in one of my spoiler messages. An opinion I no longer hold as I'm sure you understand.

naturally.

Quote

I thougt Tapper was innocent because he was snuggled quite comfortably in the shadow of the day one and parts of the day two case on me. If I was his symp, that would've been pretty much exactly where I would've wanted him to be. In a position that, if I died, would be strenghtened substansially. It seemed, even to me, that whatever case there was against Tapper rested solely on my alignment. I'm innocent so I assumed he was innocent too.

You mentioned this on topic, aye.

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It's a big risk to take though. How could Tapper have known I was innocent? Only a couple of players so far have voiced strong convictions of just that. So why did he risk it? Perhaps he did indeed feel that the case on me was too weak, and so symped me unwittingly. I know I've done that on occasions. I even got poor Piper lynched for it at one time, but that's another story.

Heh. I didn't. I actually thought that what Dib threw against you wasn't lynchworthy, but neither were you defending yourself very well. It was my hope you'd step out of it now that your attacker has gone (and yeah, DiBs did slap me around earlier) and it seems you did.

Quote

So, let's give him the benefit of the doubt on that one. But what about Gem then? And the other times he defended without taking a real stand? Did he unwittingly symp them too?

Who is them? The Gem thing: it's been even highlighted by me and Lace was doing a fine job of it, too. In this case, I really need examples to answer adequately, it's too vague otherwise.

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It's quite possible. Again, I've never been a supporter of the theory that defence=symp so I didn't think much of it at the time. Yet, I did feel more suspicious of Tapper simply because I was earlier convinced for no good reason of his innocence.

Not my bad, and actually, a lot of people weren't exactly convinced of my good intentions after the weekend break. So, let's treat this all like an introduction (apart from the unwittingly defense part, which I'll be happy to adress if you or anyone else passes me solid examples).

Quote

what's interesting is what happened when people started calling Tapper out on his play. Several people bring up the possibility of Tapper doing this on purpose to seem innocent. There's no real pressure yet, no risk of Tapper being lynched. There are far too many candidates with lynch mobs waiting with torches in their hands and blood burning in their eyes. All of this is obvious yet Tapper does not calmly rebute this, or even ignore it. No, he panics. He panics like Bent discovering he's not in a NRA rally but at a conference for gay liberals and communists. You all know of which post I speak. The long post that in essence just summarizes the game before it finaly makes a few comments about the case.

Oki. Now, you may have skipped over it since you felt I was inno up until the post, but I said out loud, on topic, after being swung around by the ankle by Dibs, that I felt I had lost control of the game and needed a re-read.

I started that re-read at page 20, where the train on you on day 1 builds, and is then overtaken by the alt146 one. I then compared what i saw there to what was distilled out of it in the game during and after the weekend break.

Now, it was probably a bad move to mix in the Gem and me similarities and the day 2 events, for it constructed the post as a defense, when it was anything but. It wasn't an attack either, it was calling attention to details that to my mind were relevant (I shall mention it again; the two seperate lynch trains). My interest was in the first part of the second lynch train: Gavin, J_slr, the Dude, etc.
Now, probably, there is something wrong with my posting style or with how I wrote that post, cause it took me 6-8 posts to get across to Dkt in Night 2 that I was calling attention to the start of the second train straight up to where it overtook the one on you.

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I imediatly noticed it as to my mind it oozed panic. And it doesn't stop there. For several pages Tapper hammers at the alegations against him. Alegations that were not alltogether organiced or threatening. He's overreacting badly and one has to question why that is.

yeah, sure. There was the misunderstanding of what 'the long post' was about, so i took the better part of 2 pages to explain that. Then there was dkt asking why i was jumping at shadows, i asked for an example, didn't get any cause it was rhetorical. Took some time to make sure he at the least understood what it was all about.
he didn't see anything in it, fair enough.
diBs misunderstood the long post as a case on himself, when I discuss the part where he was still believing in you, so the misunderstanding was spread wide out over the place.

Quote

Quote

QUOTE (Tapper @ Oct 21 2008, 09:27 PM) *
I'd be really happy to vote for Gavin.
He's been influential through his actions but has offered very little of his own insight into the game. If we let him, he will always be a low poster this game. if we then all reason like JA (let's lynch someone with more content) then low posting and not offering insight into actions and motives is a) getting rewarded, cool.gif your own go-out-of-jail-card for as long as you keep it up.

However, seeing that Silencer has received votes, has done drive-by-voting without explaining himself (which is a good ground for asking the why and how), and seems to be online every now and then without posting (it's an art, I can't do it), I'm perfectly happy with voting for him to pressure him into talking. Not sure I want to keep my vote on him until lynch, though.


Vote Silencer.

That all being said, I'm looking forward to see Morgoth post now that his main tormentor is dead.

This is a post that stands out in regards to Tapper because here he takes a stand. We've reached the point now where people have to make their opinions show or risk being lynched for being too carefull. But up until this point Tapper have been a very helpfull, polite and easy going player that have just not offended or truly argued against anyone in particular.

So, now that it is time to take a stand, I get snubbed for doing so. Very consistent from you. That personal remark aside, let's move onto your view of me, and combine it with facts.
The weird thing is; helpful, polite, easy going... and then panic? Huh? Doesn't mesh. It just doesn't.

As it stands, i had two votes against me in the whole game, max. In the end, it is the votes that do the reckoning. You know it as well as I do. I'm perfectly happy being third in place on scum radars (also said elsewhere), since it is usually a safe position, so why should I panic?

So, maybe you should question your reasoning, or at the least come up with an explanation for it.

Quote

Now, all of these factors, individually, do not constitue a killer. Combined however, they paint a much darker picture.

Tapper snuggled up to a number of players early and tied his fate to my CF result in the begining even though he could by no means know of my allegiance.

His style of play has been one that makes it easy to like him, and thus trust him.

There have been several mentions of how I rub people the wrong way in ways they can't express, i.e. gutfeeling. It's something that's inherent to my playstyle, I always see such arguments around day 2-3-4 in alted games as well. I've grown used to it.

Quote

He's stayed away from conflcit

Except for a rub with Lace.

Quote

He paniced completly upon receiving the slightest of pressure.

depends on what you read into the long post. You read defense, I intended to point out the development of 2 fast lynch trains as a diversion away from you. Now, it's either my writing style, or it's you using a very convenient argument because it has been mentioned by dkt as well for the better part of a page.

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This combined makes Tapper my favourite for killer. I think he's teamed up with Gavin, though that is mostly based on gut I do admitt. I don't know who their symps are, and really do not wish to speculate about that as of yet.

Funny, that. In the one post you quote, I mention a willingness to vote for Gavin, which i have been expressing for the better part of the late afternoon up until now. Since he and I haven't been in touch/asked each other a single question during the entire game, there was absolutely no need for distancing that way, was there? You conveniently step over it but it was a development going on before you logged on and made this post.

So, here's my somewhat hurried defense because I want my bed:
1) you mostly base your attack on one (long) post, which you (and several others, so I can't directly blame you for it) misinterpreted or in which I didn't make my general intentions clear.
2) you easily admit a sense of: tapper is a likely inno and then feeling... not betrayed, but maybe that you made a wrong judgment? Your statement is that vague, and making someone PI on day 1 or 2 based on little but a feeling is not on the skill-level I associate you with.
3) you can't be arsed due to time to come up with other examples (understandable given the time, I want to sleep as well), but none the less call upon them to convey a general feeling/mood that should help sway others to vote for me. I hope those who agree with you are willing to submit quotes, cause right now, I'm disagreeing against a feeling/memory you have on what happened on this and neither is very substantial, i'm sure you'll agree to that.

Let's face that come the morning.

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So, I vote Tapper

Well, you reasoned things out pretty well, but I think there are 3 defining characteristics of this case.
1) 'the long post.' I'm pretty certain I'm to blame for not making exactly clear in the post itself what it's intention was, but when questioned about it, I tried to make it abundantly clear. Happy to go quote hunting tomorrow if you want a whole list filled with: "it's about the traaa-aaa-aains."
2) your assumption that i was PI from the start that probably gave you a nice, rosy feeling and thus sharpened your disappointment
3) the lack of direct reference. It could be time, if so, be my guest and search for those quotes tomorrow, or maybe people will bring them on themselves if they think you've got a point. Right now, your whole case is based on 'the long post' and a description of your feelings for me.

[Lacedaemonian]

I identified them quite clearly over the weekend. I even said that I did not want to post my suspicions because I was in bad company. Some tool even said that this made me look suspicious. What I meant by that was out of the 6 or so people posting I suspected 4 of them strongly (Morg, Veng, Tapper, Gem) and was uncomfortable with Lish. So me saying this at the weekend would have been suicide. As it happens you all turned on me anyway. The result: I showed the fluffy hair of my balls and laid down my case(s). This resulted in the removal of one or two votes. You kept your vote on me along with your bad ass crew!!

Note: I have kept my vote on you (other than my brief move to Tapper who I also listed in my bad ass four) and will continue to do so until significant evidence suggests I am wrong. I am not being stubborn here, my opinion could easily change. However, I refuse to be reactionary in my voting.

Mocker: Innocents get to kill (lynch) too. The killers do not hold all of the cards. Though I fear we wasted a Vig kill last night. Sadness.

[Vengeance]

Lacedaemonian, on Oct 21 2008, 04:34 PM, said:

Non Game Related:

Hey mate. Did I tell you today how much I am loving your book? I printed 100 pages of it out at work and am going to read through as much as possible tonight before I drift into the fantastical work you have created.

Slightly Game Related:

Have you seen the Lacedaemonian Hate thread that first drew me to this marvellous site game? Been honing my skills for this game on those unknown people. I enjoy the 'me versus the world' vibe there. They speak about other people like me who they have chased away in the past. They discount the fact that it was their hate for me that drew me to the site in the first place. I am not one for craving friendship.

Game Related: Is there any hope for a lynch on Silence? I am wary of losing another Inno (presuming the others were) but his lack of involvement might actually help us reduce the circle of distrust.

EDIT: The Dude - I have built a very sound case against Morgoth. A better case than anybody else has provided against anybody else. I am sticking with Morg until anything significantly changes my view of the game. The death of Dib only adds weight to my argument. Perhaps I am being played? Either way I want to find out.

Lace I want to see your "very sound case against Morgy. Can you direct me to the quote or post it up here Cause I don't have the time to wade through 70+ pages.

I have been kind of busy with midterms and work so I haven't been playing up to my usual level I am sorry about that.

[Morgoth]

Morgoth, on Oct 22 2008, 12:17 AM, said:

Lacedaemonian, on Oct 22 2008, 12:03 AM, said:

Morgoth, on Oct 21 2008, 10:45 PM, said:

Lacedaemonian, on Oct 21 2008, 11:34 PM, said:

EDIT: The Dude - I have built a very sound case against Morgoth. A better case than anybody else has provided against anybody else. I am sticking with Morg until anything significantly changes my view of the game. The death of Dib only adds weight to my argument. Perhaps I am being played? Either way I want to find out.

Hey, you wouldn't happen to have a link to your case, or a copy of it laying around? Seeing I've not been very much around today as a result of work, I've probably just browsed through it without really noticing. If you have it, I can try to respond

My case against you was made on Monday, mate. I too have been away from the game today. It is not that my case is brilliant - just that I can not see the merit in many other cases.

A brief version of my case:

• There was some heat on Morg on Day One. Suddenly a train against Alt, who had voted Morg. Alt is dead.
  
• There was a definite effort to get a train against me over the weekend - I was talking about and voting Morg. The train efforts seemed a little contrived, similar to the contrived vibe I was getting on the Alt train.
  
• Only Dib backed me and his words carry more weight than mine because I am considered unreadable despite my heavy teacherous effort at using bulletpoints. Ohh Dib is dead as a result of a night kill.
  
• My case was first built on my gut feelings over the weekend - the physical evidence (ie the deaths) just added substance to my feelings.
  
• You seem to obvious a killer at times, but I have not played this game before so I do not know how you all play.
  
• Gem seemed to invite a lynching yesterday. This could be for many reasons. However, I placed her in the group of suspects and stated that I thought she was a Symp. So this invitation of a lynching through quite terrible play took some attention away from who I suspect are the killers. I know she was probably vig killed - but she seemed to be seeking a lynching yesterday.
  
• I think the heat has been taken off me - for no reason. This is also could add weight to my views.
  
• Vengence is hiding behind some personal abuse line - he used it as an afront for his support for you. The derailer. Whether he is a killer though? I am not sure.
  
• I am thinking less about Tapper now. Not because of Gems death but just my gut feelings are closing that door.

Hope this helped.

Aye, thanks.

I can do little but agree that a lot points towards me. When it comes to playing style, I do not think I playing different than I normaly do, but that's hardly a piece of information that will or should clear me from suspicion. As for the heat on me day 1, I think how things shifted towards alt can be blamed almost purely on Yellow. DiBs made a case on me that -seeing it was an early day 1 case- was very weak, but not utterly insubstansial. That garnered a couple of votes. But then Yellow presented his case on me based it seemed mainly on me admitting to having sent PMs to spoilerheaven. That didn't sit right with a lot of people, so when Gavin presented the case on Alt, a several saw a way out of a somewhat uncomfortable situation. People remembered Yellow's case, not DiBs' case. I'm not saying DiBs' case had any worth. It didn't. But at least it was based on behaviour in game and not purely on meta arguments.

I still stand by the opinion that night kills almost never provide usefull information. there are exceptions, but the J_slr and DiBs kills are too WIFOM to have much value as arguments at this point.

As for why the heat was taken of you. You've begun playing the game in the way that benefits the innocents, and as such the main argument against you is moot.

... and what do you think about my Tapper case?

Oh for fucks sake Yellow. Read the damned post! I say that I believe my case to have been abandoned for a better option because of your case on me being as meta based as it was. How do you not see this? For christ sake I've never accused you of being scummy, yet you immediatly assume I am because I believe you did a mistake that made lynching me less viable?

[Lisheo]

@Lace: Uncomfortable with me?
And to be quite frank I dunno what to say about Yellow and Morgy at each others throats right now.

This post has been edited by Lisheo: 21 October 2008 - 10:48 PM

[The Dude]

please forgive typos and no quotes, I am on a train and iPhone keyboards are a nightmare.

@morg. I like your tapper theory... With one exception. In order to believe it, one must assume you are inno. You state you thought tapper was initially inno because you yourself are inno. So say we do vote tapper, he comes up inno and you have a nice little alibi there for being inno. If you are a killer you already know he is inno. I think your case has merit. Tapper did get defensive. Very defensive. But I would rather vote you off first. I really think your death would
answer a ton of questions, refocus peoples energy *cough lace cough* and help us out. If you are evil... Yay, if not we take out tapper tomorrow. So vote morgoth I realize I did this vote yesterday as did a few others and it might look bad upon train examination, but I really think your death will help us win.

vote morgoth

EDIT: to make vote clear, I was on the train, on my phone, forgot to put it on its own line.

This post has been edited by The Dude: 21 October 2008 - 11:38 PM

[mocker]

wats the vote count now? lol im lost

and want to vote before i go to bed, which is soon. i wont be back on this day dont think