[Loki]

Midwives work on public maternity wards here in Australia. Some are nurses others are just midwives. They tend to be the ones who promote dangerous and misleading practises within a hospital (ie a child recently died after not get a vitamin K injection because the midwife told the parents that it isn't necessary and that there were risks involved) despite not being qualified to do much more than take obs in a lot of cases.

They tend to promote their own ideas as fact and because they work at a hospital people assume they know what they are talking about.

Good midwives are great. But they're like Bigfoot, you hear about people who have seen one but you've never managed to see one yourself.

This post has been edited by Loki: 26 April 2017 - 02:09 AM

[worry]

You can't blame them though. Much of their lore was lost when the rival Doula hordes raided their villages during the Great Unbirth, and now they make do with but a fraction of their ancient knowledge.

[Abyss]

Traveller, on 25 April 2017 - 09:26 PM, said:

Midwives here pull this sort of shit all the time. Had one the other day just blithely taking off the patients ecg and blood pressure monitoring in the middle of a C section so they could have 'skin to skin', because you know, that's more important than monitoring during surgery.

They can DO that???...and the OB or surgical nurse doesn't immediately gut them????

Loki, on 26 April 2017 - 01:07 AM, said:

My friend contacted me all worried and upset because she was told that her baby has fluid in her lungs ...this midwife was so dumb she had confused lungs with the stomach. How is that level of ignorance allowed to work in a freakin hospital? Ugh

Loki, on 26 April 2017 - 02:08 AM, said:

Midwives work on public maternity wards here in Australia. Some are nurses others are just midwives. They tend to be the ones who promote dangerous and misleading practises within a hospital (ie a child recently died after not get a vitamin K injection because the midwife told the parents that it isn't necessary and that there were risks involved) despite not being qualified to do much more than take obs in a lot of cases.

They tend to promote their own ideas as fact and because they work at a hospital people assume they know what they are talking about.

Good midwives are great. But they're like Bigfoot, you hear about people who have seen one but you've never managed to see one yourself.

WTF are these people doing working in hospitals?

worry, on 26 April 2017 - 02:43 AM, said:

You can't blame them though. Much of their lore was lost when the rival Doula hordes raided their villages during the Great Unbirth, and now they make do with but a fraction of their ancient knowledge.

True. They're supposedly waiting for a Chosen One to come into the world and lead them back to glory, but they've accidentally killed her off at birth three times so far.

[Mezla PigDog]

In the UK most maternity units are midwife lead so you rarely see a doctor before, during or after you have a baby unless there are medical complications. I had my son on a consultant lead unit due to some complications and even then I only saw a doc at the end when it got a bit serious and I had a c section. Me and the baby had one follow up with a doctor each. The midwives were freaking awesome. They come round to your house for a few days afterwards to keep an eye on you too.

[Loki]

To be fair, I had a few Bigfoot sightings when I had my son but my situation was abnormal since my partner was a doctor at the hospital I was in.

Two of the midwives were very competent, two were horrible, and one was so awesome that I called up the hospital to make a formal compliment.

Here they also visit you after you leave the hospital for a few days.

They're not all bad but they the bad ones are what stick out in your memory. They're the ones that can turn your experience into a bad memory instead of a happy one. And bad ones can be dangerous as they give unsound advice that isn't backed by research or science.

Recently there was an immunology lesson at Matador's hospital that he attended and several of the midwives tried to argue against the necessity of vaccines. The doctor giving the lesson point blank said "If you don't believe in vaccinations than you have no place working in a hospital".

Half of them thought the Vitamin K injection was a vaccine

This post has been edited by Loki: 26 April 2017 - 06:01 AM

[EmperorMagus]

Loki, on 26 April 2017 - 05:59 AM, said:

To be fair, I had a few Bigfoot sightings when I had my son but my situation was abnormal since my partner was a doctor at the hospital I was in.

Two of the midwives were very competent, two were horrible, and one was so awesome that I called up the hospital to make a formal compliment.

Here they also visit you after you leave the hospital for a few days.

They're not all bad but they the bad ones are what stick out in your memory. They're the ones that can turn your experience into a bad memory instead of a happy one. And bad ones can be dangerous as they give unsound advice that isn't backed by research or science.

Recently there was an immunology lesson at Matador's hospital that he attended and several of the midwives tried to argue against the necessity of vaccines. The doctor giving the lesson point blank said "If you don't believe in vaccinations than you have no place working in a hospital".

Half of them thought the Vitamin K injection was a vaccine

I know it's fun to make fun of midwives and all, but if you want to look at the science, planned home births with midwives result in less deaths, less clinical interventions, and better outcomes overall for both the mother and child. Even in hospitals, the planned births attended by midwives have better results than those attended by physicians (although, if I want to be honest, the CI is large enough to cover the difference.).

In a study of a representative sample of 3000 planned births in British Columbia, midwives achieved better outcomes than hospitals. However, midwife IS a protected term in BC and midwives have to get a professional degree. I don't know about AUS/US/Britain

Quote

Planned home birth attended by a registered midwife was associated with very low and comparable rates of perinatal death and reduced rates of obstetric interventions and other adverse perinatal outcomes compared with planned hospital birth attended by a midwife or physician.

Source: http://www.cmaj.ca/c...1/6-7/377.short


The webpage has a bunch of other sources supporting this too. The numbers don't support the docs in this case.

This post has been edited by EmperorMagus: 26 April 2017 - 06:24 AM

[Macros]

Afaik midwives here are nurses who have specialised are they not?

[EmperorMagus]

Macros, on 26 April 2017 - 06:27 AM, said:

Afaik midwives here are nurses who have specialised are they not?

University of British Columbia has a College of Midwivery separate from the nursing program. According to legislation, that college is the only one in BC who can license the use of "midwife". I don't know about other provinces/countries.

[Loki]

Canada is better in regards to most areas of the health industry in regards to regulations, min. qualifications, oversight etc than here in Australia.

[EmperorMagus]

Loki, on 26 April 2017 - 06:34 AM, said:

Canada is better in regards to most areas of the health industry in regards to regulations, min. qualifications, oversight etc than here in Australia.

That may be the case.

The reason I made my post was to provide some actual information regarding midwife-birth outcomes, because the research has convinced me that healthy mothers would benefit far more from a home birth (less medical procedures, less complications, etc.) than a hospital birth. I felt like the image of midwives on thread was a little unfair and misleading and perhaps some actual data would shine some light on the nuances of the issue.

[Loki]

Except Canadian midwives are held tona greater level of accountability in regards to what they can and can't do, have one of the highest minimum requirements for education and training etc than any other country. Midwifery in Canada is not the same as it is here in Australia.

Homebirths in Australia have a far lower success rate. One of the main causes is midwives waiting too long to call for an ambulance during a complicated birth.

There are good midwives but the system is poor and allows for too many bad ones to get through. Midwifery associations are pushing for more accountability and ongoing mandatory training.

This post has been edited by Loki: 26 April 2017 - 06:47 AM

[EmperorMagus]

Loki, on 26 April 2017 - 06:44 AM, said:

Except Canadian midwives are held tona greater level of accountability in regards to what they can and can't do, have one of the highest minimum requirements for education and training etc than any other country. Midwifery in Canada is not the same as it is here in Australia.

Homebirths in Australia have a far lower success rate. One of the main causes is midwives waiting too long to call for an ambulance during a complicated birth.

There are good midwives but the system is poor and allows for too many bad ones to get through. Midwifery associations are pushing for more accountability and ongoing mandatory training.

I believe BC physicians have nothing but contempt for home births/ midwives either. At least that's what my impression is. It would be interesting to hear what Una (who I think is a GP somewhere in BC) thinks about midwives here.

[Slow Ben]

Yeah, ok i get it. Here we have specialized nurses that are with you all the time, except the few times the Dr comes and at the end of delivery.

[QuickTidal]

I'll just chime in to say this:

My wife and I took a course before the birth of our daughter that was taught by a midwife, and she was wonderful and informative. She DID kind of preach to us about "natural childbirth" which my wife said "Hells no, give me the epidural!" But otherwise she was knowledgeable and on point.

My sister-in-law had midwives for both her pregnancies and I can't say I was impressed. She seemingly had more help from the staff at her hospital than her midwife...who really didn't do much.

We didn't get in with a midwife (which was my wife's aim initially) as they have long wait lists in Ontario, especially in larger cities. And also because of complications that might arise with my wife's hereditary factors (familial risk for blood clots ect.) we ended up in with an OBgyn in the special pregnancy unit at our hospital. They were amazing top to bottom (the nurses, the doctors, and all the people who helped out with the labor and delivery) and I simply don't think that we would have had the same excellent experience with a midwife to be honest. Every single doctor and nurse was on the ball for nearly two days.

So I think I have an overall better impression of the hospital staff than midwives. I think my wife shares my opinion too as we were well treated at the hospital, and hopefully that's what we'll do for the second pregnancy we plan too.

My two cents.

[Abyss]

My experience with midwives is entirely second-hand and anecdotal, so perhaps it's to be expected that the negative stories stick out ahead of the positive ones. I do think they serve a need and can provide a valuable service, and the good ones are an asset. It just seems as tho there are many of the opposite kind sliding under the radar, even in Ontario. Also, many of the negative stories i've heard involve things along the lines of Loki's friend, where post-birth a midwife has given wrong or bad advice or pushed an agenda despite new mother or parents feeling otherwise. I do know of one instance where a midwife, in the face of obvious complications in a home birth, delayed entirely too long and only the dad-to-be taking control of the situation and calling a frikkin ambulance prevented something worse.

...but all that aside, re upthread, a midwife removing sensors in an OR should be fired, diswived, and probably charged for criminal negligence and being too stupid to be allowed to exist.

[Loki]

People who refer to siblings as 'of mine' creep me out.

"Chilling while brother of mine puts together a new bookcase."

Uh...okay.

Parents say 'daugther of mine' or 'son of mine' and, whilst sounding extremely possessive, it doesn't bother me but when siblings use the term for each other I find it unsettling for some reason.

[Macros]

I'm still a bit baffled here.
Are midwives not like medically trained people over there? If not, what the fuck are they doing in a hospital?
Anyone I know involved in midwifery here is a fully qualified nurse who has then gone on and specialised

[Silencer]

Loki, on 26 April 2017 - 03:29 PM, said:

People who refer to siblings as 'of mine' creep me out.

"Chilling while brother of mine puts together a new bookcase."

Uh...okay.

Parents say 'daugther of mine' or 'son of mine' and, whilst sounding extremely possessive, it doesn't bother me but when siblings use the term for each other I find it unsettling for some reason.

Probably because it's a pretty unusual way to frame the relationship (as you say, it has a strong possessive implication), and is almost universally used in media-land by people who are either evil or creepy (refer the Doctor Who episode "Family of Blood" for maximum creepiness).

That being said, I've usually only heard it used in a kind of tongue-in-cheek way, usually complete with fake-haughty tone, never done seriously (outside of aforementioned media examples). I feel like it would be extremely off-putting and creepy to actually hear someone use it casually like they do in movies. XD



RE: Midwives - while not having any firsthand experience to relate, I can safely say that most of the midwives I have *known*, at least in NZ, have been horrible agenda-pushers, even outside of their working hours. Almost like most of them get into the job for the sole purpose of spreading their personal viewpoints on childbirth. Now, that is by no means a representative sample (we're talking three, I think, total), but it certainly was concerning, and jives pretty well with a lot of what I've heard in general, including this thread.

[QuickTidal]

Macros, on 26 April 2017 - 03:31 PM, said:

I'm still a bit baffled here.
Are midwives not like medically trained people over there? If not, what the fuck are they doing in a hospital?
Anyone I know involved in midwifery here is a fully qualified nurse who has then gone on and specialised

In Canada at least you have to go through Midwifery education courses, and then be registered with the College of Midwives in your province. They are "Medically trained" in the things they need to know about, and that's kind of it. Like they need to know how to insert a urninary catheter, do an episiotomy, ect. but they don't have to study anything that might arise from a complication. They need to know enough to deliver your baby at your home if you choose...but also need to defer to medical professionals if things go in any way wrong as they don't have the medical knowledge to help with emergencies. This is often why people who DO use midwives, still want to give birth in a hospital where trained professionals can help when/if things go south. Midwives are not nurses here in general, as far as a I know...although I don't think that means they CAN'T be a trained nurse as well. I've not met one who is though.

[Puck]

Abyss, on 26 April 2017 - 03:44 AM, said:

True. They're supposedly waiting for a Chosen One to come into the world and lead them back to glory, but they've accidentally killed her off at birth three times so far.

There's an amazing book buried in there somewhere.