[Mrs Savagely Wishy Washy]

Tiste Simeon, on 30 November 2011 - 04:08 PM, said:

I for one personally welcome our new super bug overlords...

Human slaves in an insect nation.

[Adjutant Stormy~]

My neck is still killing me, but at least I've got full range of motion back.

[Tapper]

 Mezla PigDog, on 30 November 2011 - 02:48 PM, said:

 Tapper, on 30 November 2011 - 12:01 PM, said:

 worrywort, on 29 November 2011 - 10:57 AM, said:

Don't forget that scientists in the Netherlands have developed a potential super-flu for no particular reason.

Actually, the research was conducted at the behest of the American National Institute of Health, a fact that so far, I haven't found in any single anglo-saxon article on the super-flu, and has been supervised and checked by your national Centre for Disease Control. Secondly, the whole scare that a terrorist could replicate the experiment is being debunked by both the guy who developed the new virus and his direct superior - and being the ones who engineered the gene, I'd say they know what they're talking about.

The crux is that Fouchier (the virologist who developed the superflu) wants to publish his findings in Science and that might be bad news if there really is a doctor Doom somewhere.

Is this debate definitely happening? I can't find any credible information that there really is a debate going on about whether to publish it. Is the Netherlands coming into some stick over it or something? I can't imagine they have done anything that radical, the paper will be a logical step in an ongoing line of investigation supported by the global influenza scientific community (hence the NIH and CDC collaborating with the dude with the ferret lab in the Netherlands to produce this data). I moved into flu research a few months back and while I'm admittedly still bringing myself up to speed on the current position, this is NOT news in the flu research community.

They submitted it to Science, and Science has turned the research over to the National Science Advisory Board for Biosecurity to see whether or not it can be published without being a security risk. That board's chair(Paul Keim) has already gone to press saying it is worse than anthrax.

So the scare and debate is not so much in the flu community as it is in the arms/ bio-weapon industry.
Here's an article with the relevant info, although it is hardly first-hand: http://gizmodo.com/ron-fouchier/

[Mrs Savagely Wishy Washy]

"But Fouchier and a handful of other scientists who have performed similar experiments believe publishing would help the scientific community prepare for an H5N1 pandemic. Not publishing, they say, could leave researchers in the dark as to how to respond to an outbreak. But a pandemic made possible in the first place by the publication creates a bit of a chicken and egg question—and that's why the NSAB has an unenviably difficult decision to make."

I don't quite understand how publishing the work on how to make an already nasty bug even more nasty can help the vast scientific community, such as organic chemists or structural biochemists, to prepare for an H5N1 pandemic. And what exactly means prepare anyways. Also, it has been known previously that pathogens can become more pathogenic over time through passage in hosts. So, my question is what is the point of his research anyways? What kind of H5N1 outbreak, i.e. of the very same virus he created? Proof of principle? 15 minutes of fame and a Science publication? And how many ferrets on the way there?

This post has been edited by Miss Savage: 30 November 2011 - 05:18 PM

[Mezla PigDog]

 Tapper, on 30 November 2011 - 04:43 PM, said:

 Mezla PigDog, on 30 November 2011 - 02:48 PM, said:

Is this debate definitely happening? I can't find any credible information that there really is a debate going on about whether to publish it. Is the Netherlands coming into some stick over it or something? I can't imagine they have done anything that radical, the paper will be a logical step in an ongoing line of investigation supported by the global influenza scientific community (hence the NIH and CDC collaborating with the dude with the ferret lab in the Netherlands to produce this data). I moved into flu research a few months back and while I'm admittedly still bringing myself up to speed on the current position, this is NOT news in the flu research community.

They submitted it to Science, and Science has turned the research over to the National Science Advisory Board for Biosecurity to see whether or not it can be published without being a security risk. That board's chair(Paul Keim) has already gone to press saying it is worse than anthrax.

So the scare and debate is not so much in the flu community as it is in the arms/ bio-weapon industry.
Here's an article with the relevant info, although it is hardly first-hand: http://gizmodo.com/ron-fouchier/

Thank you, sir. So much to say and nobody to aim a rant at! I'll go ahead anyway

First off, the research is perfectly valid and not at all irresponsible. It is proving a theory that avian flu (that I think has about an 80% mortality rate when it does get into humans) can evolve human-to-human transmission. I'm pretty sure everyone was confident this could happen and didn't necessarily need to see it to believe it but understanding the mechanism of how it can happen is very very useful as then scientists can watch for real avian flu starting down the path to being transmissable and co-ordinate public health resources accordingly. Predicting a pandemic would enable serious attempts to prevent it and potentially save millions of lives. I would be confident that the research was performed in a safe manner and people really shouldn't be concerned. A purposefully designed facility and then some simple measures can enable this kind of research to be conducted very safely (under the assumption that the people involved are competent and take their role in Biosafety seriously of course....).

Secondly, if people think that the NSABB and Biosecurity industry is at all credible, they've got another thing coming!! There is no well informed, professional panel of experts lead by the military and/or government anywhere in the world. Biosecurity is a very new concept and a handful of government selected individuals merely meet occasionally and speculate. I doubt more than a handful of people in the world even have careers based solely on Biosecurity, it's a non-subject. "Experts" are usually involved in Infectious Disease research from a healthcare perspective and apply for the occasional cushy Biosecurity grant to prop up their real research interests. The Biosecurity industry is even more pathetic. I worked for 18 months for a business that was 1 of 2 competing businesses for all Biosecurity contracts in the US and UK and the level of the scientific knowledge and technology there was embarrassingly low. It would be terrifying if it wasn't for the lack of a credible bioterrorist threat. IMO there are only 2 ways a significant bioterrorist event could happen. The first is theft from a research facility like the one in the Netherlands, but that would need collusion from the research team inner circle (nobody can ever find samples in research facility freezers, a random thief would have no luck!) and the second is serious investment by some kind of rogue state. Neither is going to happen, we can all sleep safely in our beds content in the knowledge that a killer pandemic could hit at any time so there's no point worrying about it.

/rant

[Mezla PigDog]

 Miss Savage, on 30 November 2011 - 05:15 PM, said:

I don't quite understand how publishing the work on how to make an already nasty bug even more nasty can help the vast scientific community, such as organic chemists or structural biochemists, to prepare for an H5N1 pandemic. And what exactly means prepare anyways.

Prepare means 1) monitoring H5N1 infections in regions where poultry and humans live in very close contact, 2) identifying the signs that the H5N1 isolates from humans are developing the capability for human to human transmission and 3) directing resources for preventing the spread of infection directly at the location the panemic is threatening to emerge.

Right now we are capable of 1 but incapable of 2 which means that resources for 3 are spread thinly throughout predominantly south-east Asia, Africa and South America.

[Solidsnape]

Just done an update for my IP.Board app, and now it just refuses to work.
It has been faultless since I first installed it months and months ago. For reasons I've yet to realise, this really boils my piss.

Fuck you invision power services!!!

[QuickTidal]

 Solidsnape, on 30 November 2011 - 05:47 PM, said:

Just done an update for my IP.Board app, and now it just refuses to work.
It has been faultless since I first installed it months and months ago. For reasons I've yet to realise, this really boils my piss.

Fuck you invision power services!!!

I repped you for posting on topic and not joining in the long off topic convo about superbugs.



Damn the man, save the empire.

[QuickTidal]

Yesterday at work was chaos...today I'm fucking bored.

[Solidsnape]

 QuickTidal, on 30 November 2011 - 05:54 PM, said:

 Solidsnape, on 30 November 2011 - 05:47 PM, said:

Just done an update for my IP.Board app, and now it just refuses to work.
It has been faultless since I first installed it months and months ago. For reasons I've yet to realise, this really boils my piss.

Fuck you invision power services!!!

I repped you for posting on topic and not joining in the long off topic convo about superbugs.



Damn the man, save the empire.

Why thank you sir.
Though I should add that my refusal to get dragged into the off topic convo wasn't because of any lack of opinion on my part, far from it.
It's just that I couldn't see through the red mist of anger (and the yellowy tinged mist of evaporating urine) to post anything worthwhile on the subject.

I'll take the rep though, that's at a premium atm for me!
Cheers!!

On topic.
Foaming about my How-dare-you-try-and-tell-me-what-I-refuse-to-believe mother in law.
She'd twist on 21 that one.
Of course (predictably) my partner refuses to see my point, making me just feel like an arsehole.

[QuickTidal]

 Solidsnape, on 30 November 2011 - 08:22 PM, said:

Foaming about my How-dare-you-try-and-tell-me-what-I-refuse-to-believe mother in law.

Shoot, I thought I was the only one with one of those.

[tiam]

just watch Palace destroy United

But weve now got City in the semis. Worried

[Centzon Totochtin]

I'm not sure how the above makes sense

I cannot concentrate today, my head feels like it has been put through a blender. It has been a while since I have been properly well

[worry]

I just want to make it clear for the record that I actually do believe that the Netherlands is planning to destroy the world with a superflu and it's something we should all be worried about. I didn't post it as a mere joke in response to Miss Savage's long list of recent disasters, and I would condemn any individual or group who would suggest otherwise.

[amphibian]

 worrywort, on 01 December 2011 - 12:28 AM, said:

I just want to make it clear for the record that I actually do believe that the Netherlands is planning to destroy the world with a superflu and it's something we should all be worried about. I didn't post it as a mere joke in response to Miss Savage's long list of recent disasters, and I would condemn any individual or group who would suggest otherwise.

We have a successor to Nicodimas!

[Abyss]

 worrywort, on 01 December 2011 - 12:28 AM, said:

I just want to make it clear for the record that I actually do believe that the Netherlands is planning to destroy the world with a superflu and it's something we should all be worried about....

.

[Illuyankas]

 Abyss, on 01 December 2011 - 05:49 AM, said:

 worrywort, on 01 December 2011 - 12:28 AM, said:

I just want to make it clear for the record that I actually do believe that the Netherlands is planning to destroy the world with a superflu and it's something we should all be worried about....

.

[Ain't_It_Just_]

Well, I just saw Lex off at the train station, but her phone's sim card crapped out somehow-the contract has been terminated, or somesuch. And now has come the irrational worry and fear of her getting into trouble (because the train line she rides is fairly seedy and she's by herself), and I can't even check up on her to soothe myself. It'll be fine, I know, but for now, paranoia rules. Sigh.

[Mezla PigDog]

 worrywort, on 01 December 2011 - 12:28 AM, said:

I just want to make it clear for the record that I actually do believe that the Netherlands is planning to destroy the world with a superflu and it's something we should all be worried about. I didn't post it as a mere joke in response to Miss Savage's long list of recent disasters, and I would condemn any individual or group who would suggest otherwise.

No no no. It's the Swiss you need to worry about. They're going to destroy the world with a precision timed chocolate cheese FTL neutrino bomb. The LHC is just a front to explain away their high tech underground lair.

Messing with my groove? I am terribly sleep deprived and really need to stop living in apartments with crazy noisy neighbours. The chap next door has kept me awake for 2 nights running by repeatedly plugging and unplugging stuff, switching switches in the wall that seperates our bedrooms and receiving lots of loud late night phone calls. It's completely bizarre, who needs to plug loads of stuff in all through the night and why does he have to switch the plug switches mutiple times each time he plugs something in???I occasionally hear spanking noises as well but as far as I can tell, he lives alone..... What can he be up to???

[QuickTidal]

 Ain, on 01 December 2011 - 08:14 AM, said:

Well, I just saw Lex off at the train station, but her phone's sim card crapped out somehow-the contract has been terminated, or somesuch. And now has come the irrational worry and fear of her getting into trouble (because the train line she rides is fairly seedy and she's by herself), and I can't even check up on her to soothe myself. It'll be fine, I know, but for now, paranoia rules. Sigh.

Look at it this way. She'll likely be fine. I say this from the perspective of my pity for the fool who ever tried to mess with my girlfriend who takes kickboxing and would probably feed a fast elbow to the jaw of any attacker or hoodlum. And when all else fails I think ALL girls are aware of the "kick him in the sack" defense...and I don't give a crap how big the guy is...if you kick him in the pills...he's going down. At which point you have a tough-as-nails gf to brag about.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 01 December 2011 - 02:07 PM