[Tapper]

QuickTidal, on 06 August 2012 - 09:34 PM, said:

Tapper, on 06 August 2012 - 02:00 PM, said:

In Sombie's defense: he doesn't call Sikhism a warrior religion. He calls it a warrior culture. Which is a massive difference. And it is historically true that the British Army has seen a large number of Sikh regiments, far more than their share amongst the Indian population warranted. Apparently, roughly 20% of the Indian Army consisted of Sikhs. They are only 2% of the population of the Indian continent. Combine that with the fact that the Sikhs ruled an Empire based on a strict military dominance that took a while before it was subjugated by the Brits and I for one have absolutely no beef with saying that the Sikhs have a military heritage, just like you might say about the Gurkha's.

That their religion is a peaceful one has literally nothing to do with it. Confucianism is inherently peaceful. Didn't stop the Chinese from warring against each other for several thousands of years. Any christian faith preaches peace - and isn't christianity the faith that just about every single American president actively has to support in order to stand a chance for the office, and which was a uniting characteristic of European statesmen as well? Didn't stop the West from fighting two world wars and several other conflicts, and that's just in the past century.

All in all, it seems fairly probable to say that 99% of those who fought and died or fought and lived were probably very decent, nice, peaceful, dependable, friendly people.
Perhaps not in the least because decent, dependable, responsible, calm and comradely are also trademarks of a very good soldier.

In my defense being Sikh isn't a CULTURE...it's a religion. Just like Hindu is ALSO an Indian religion. Indian culture is not informed by ONE of it's religions.

Sorry, nice try Tapper.

Anyways, I'm sure Sombra didn't mean it in a bad way, but it was a poorly timed comment on his part in my eyes, and I'd just woken up.

There was simply zero reason to bring it up in reference to a bunch of Sikh's being shot by a white supremacist.

Dude, I split culture and religion - see the underlined, bolded, italicized sentence, and all you now do is "it's not a culture, it is a religion, nernernener, I'm right, you're wrong, nice try?" That's a bit cheap, isn't it?

Anyhow, Hinduism has a caste system that influences any society in which it is present thoroughly (and does so even in diaspora, or in western society), including influencing who can marry whom, who can go where, who can be judged by whom. In other words: cultural and social implications.
Sikhs don't have a caste system and go one further by preaching equality between men and women. In other words, distinctions on a cultural/ social level.

So, even though Sikhism is a religious belief (which I never denied), that does not preclude the fact that Sikhs (who are also predominantly found in a certain geographical area in the Indian subcontinent, the Punjab, and amongst certain tribes there) can have a particular mindset and/or culture (in this case a culture that makes them martially proficient through their value system) in addition to/ influenced by their religion. I really don't see why you feel the need to deny that. Religion =/= culture. But one can have a certain religion and a culture shaped by and connected with it.
Sikhism has social implications of such a kind that one might consider it different from any other social system/ culture in the sub-continent that it co-exists with. A quick wiki search (while it remains selective quotage by non-scientists) seems to show that (some) anthropologists agree, at the very least up to a point, that Sikhs are an ethno-religious group with a distinct own identity.

While I fully agree that there was very little reference to connect the shootings to Sombra's link, I didn't (and don't) agree with the remainder of your post. Sikhs can be said to have a martial heritage/ culture, even though Sikhism's root is a religion.

And that's pretty much all I ever want to say on the subject

[worry]

The shooter appears to have won some awards in the Army and was for a time a psy ops dude, but was later demoted and "generally discharged" in 1998 which is apparently, at least sometimes, a result of pleading out of a dishonorable discharge, or on the other hand breaking rules chronically but not necessarily to the point of court martial. He never actually saw combat, so I don't think PTSD is a factor (?), but his problems definitely existed from at least the late 90s. And he found his community in the white power music subculture and message boards.

On the lighter side of things, they're burning down mosques in Missouri.

[Ukjent]

Briar King, on 06 August 2012 - 11:18 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 06 August 2012 - 09:32 PM, said:

The referee calls in the Olympic Women's soccer CAN VS USA was a fucking travesty and a joke...two erroneously bad calls by shitty referee and Canada loses to a US team that spends a lot of time playing dirty. Claasssy.

Groove messed with.

This was today? Our coverage didnt include this yet Stateside.

I can't understand what the point of complaining over a referee when it's women's football, they can't play anyway and to look at it hurts. Everything go so slow that every time I see a freekick I'm amazed that they in fact managed to do something.

[worry]

That post sucks.

[Satan]

So neg-rep it! Stop being such a football kicking bitch and spread some red hate!

Also, please stop having a serious discussion on religion in this thread. There is a dedicated forum for that and the whole thing is making my eyes bleed.

This post has been edited by Satan: 07 August 2012 - 11:35 AM

[Tapper]

Graablick, on 07 August 2012 - 10:41 AM, said:

I can't understand what the point of complaining over a referee when it's women's football, they can't play anyway and to look at it hurts. Everything go so slow that every time I see a freekick I'm amazed that they in fact managed to do something.

Sorry, but apart from the obvious truth about the pace of the game, I very much disagree with the sentiment you express. It has a bad, contemptuous vibe to it.

[HiddenOne]

worrywort, on 07 August 2012 - 10:16 AM, said:

The shooter appears to have won some awards in the Army and was for a time a psy ops dude, but was later demoted and "generally discharged" in 1998 which is apparently, at least sometimes, a result of pleading out of a dishonorable discharge, or on the other hand breaking rules chronically but not necessarily to the point of court martial. He never actually saw combat, so I don't think PTSD is a factor (?), but his problems definitely existed from at least the late 90s. And he found his community in the white power music subculture and message boards.

On the lighter side of things, they're burning down mosques in Missouri.

I suspect the training methods used on this type of operative can break or damage the minds of the recipients. They should develop a way to undo the damage when these guys are released from duty, hopefully one that doesn't involve electroshock and LSD

[worry]

Satan, on 07 August 2012 - 11:33 AM, said:

So neg-rep it! Stop being such a football kicking bitch and spread some red hate!

It was messing with my groove, bite it sideways.

[Ukjent]

I can see now it came out a bit to sharp a and for that I do apologize,

[QuickTidal]

amphibian, on 07 August 2012 - 02:11 AM, said:

Briar King, on 06 August 2012 - 11:18 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 06 August 2012 - 09:32 PM, said:

The referee calls in the Olympic Women's soccer CAN VS USA was a fucking travesty and a joke...two erroneously bad calls by shitty referee and Canada loses to a US team that spends a lot of time playing dirty. Claasssy.

Groove messed with.

This was today? Our coverage didnt include this yet Stateside.

MSNBC played it live on TV, but I watched the BBC stream the entire time (including Japan/France, which was very fun too).

The referee wasn't that bad. She gave the US a few calls here and there (one tough call on a corner/goal kick comes to mind), but she let a ton of Canadian stuff go as well. Cheney had her jersey held so badly that it was almost taken off her in an accidental Brandi Chastain moment. I thought the referee was better than the one in the France/Japan game.

Japan is going to work the US in the finals. They're a better team.

Sure a few bad calls against the US too, but not game-deciding calls like the bullshit handball call that resulted in a penalty kick...and I only mention the "holding the ball" call against the Canadian Keeper since they NEVER call that...Basically without that goal (caused by the penalty kick) the US wouldn't have won. As far as I'm concerned Canada outplayed them...but I'm probably biased.


Secondly, apparently Canadian Captain, Sinclair asked Pedersen for an explanation.

“She actually giggled and said nothing,” Sinclair said. “Classy.”

She GIGGLED.

Wow.

I don't think the game was called well at all on both sides....but she basically decided the game in the 78th minute and that's unfair.

And you are right about the Japanese team, I hope if they don't win, they at least make the US work for it.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 07 August 2012 - 02:21 PM

[amphibian]

QuickTidal, on 07 August 2012 - 01:55 PM, said:

Sure a few bad calls against the US too, but not game-deciding calls like the bullshit handball call that resulted in a penalty kick...and I only mention the "holding the ball" call against the Canadian Keeper since they NEVER call that...Basically without that goal (caused by the penalty kick) the US wouldn't have won. As far as I'm concerned Canada outplayed them...but I'm probably biased.
And you are right about the Japanese team, I hope if they don't win, they at least make the US work for it.

Handball call was right. Two separate Canadian players had a hand on that ball.

The goalie holding the ball call is correct - you're officially allowed 6 seconds to do something with the ball. Most officials won't make a big deal of it if you take 7 or 8. McLeod was holding it up to 15 and picked it back up after putting it down.

McLeod is a terrible goalie by the way. She was missing a ton of angles, had bad positioning and let that Rapinoe corner go in.

[QuickTidal]

amphibian, on 07 August 2012 - 02:24 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 07 August 2012 - 01:55 PM, said:

Sure a few bad calls against the US too, but not game-deciding calls like the bullshit handball call that resulted in a penalty kick...and I only mention the "holding the ball" call against the Canadian Keeper since they NEVER call that...Basically without that goal (caused by the penalty kick) the US wouldn't have won. As far as I'm concerned Canada outplayed them...but I'm probably biased.
And you are right about the Japanese team, I hope if they don't win, they at least make the US work for it.

Handball call was right. Two separate Canadian players had a hand on that ball.


The goalie holding the ball call is correct - you're officially allowed 6 seconds to do something with the ball. Most officials won't make a big deal of it if you take 7 or 8. McLeod was holding it up to 15 and picked it back up after putting it down.

McLeod is a terrible goalie by the way. She was missing a ton of angles, had bad positioning and let that Rapinoe corner go in.

In a game where Rapinoe had a MUCH more blatant handball earlier on that Pederson (the ref) let slide, that's incongruous. Either make the call every time it happens, or don't make it at all.

The 6 second hold call was NOT correct...but the issue at hand is that no one (not even the US coach) has EVER seen it called anyways. It seems to be a rule most people ignore. Either it should be enforced across the board or not at all. Watch any football match and every Keeper on the planet has violated that rule oodles of times. But anyways, It was 10 seconds...not 15...I replayed it and counted and guess what...around 5 of those seconds she was on the ground unable to get rid of it. Beyond that it's a warning first (which was not given), and then it's two other forms of punishment (added time ect.), and NOT an indirect Free kick...that's something Pederson decided to go with..and that's why even the US coach had said she never has seen that called.

And our "terrible goalie" kept the cocky US team (I watched them say that they already thought the gold medal was theirs as a forgone conclusion before playing Canada) at bay for 120 minutes...that's a feat no one has done in a long time...and she played very well. It's funny, but Canada scored on the US team repeatedly and the US goalie looked just as flustered. You can say what you like, but Erin McLeod played her heart out, and to say she didn't is not really kosher man.

In the long run this game was decided by a referee....not a team. The US team should be just as unhappy with winning over a bullshit technicality, as the Canadian team should be with a bullshit call causing them to lose, leading to another call that valid or not should not have gotten to that position VIA the previous call in the first place.

Our girls gave every last drop of what they had and had the US team on the run for 120 minutes. That game SHOULD have gone to penalty kicks. At least then it could have been deemed FAIR.



Bottom line is that the REf has NO business making calls that decide the fate of the match.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 07 August 2012 - 02:55 PM

[Wolfy]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.............

[Beezulbubba]

Talk to the hand girlfriend





This should make you feel better though

[QuickTidal]

Yeah, Rapinoe is an asshat, I'm not surprised. We have Tankredi though and she's an asshat too. Every team has at least one.

I'm super jazzed about the Mars Curiosity landing though, that's a HUGE accomplishment.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 07 August 2012 - 03:50 PM

[amphibian]

QuickTidal, on 07 August 2012 - 02:48 PM, said:

The 6 second hold call was NOT correct...but the issue at hand is that no one (not even the US coach) has EVER seen it called anyways. It seems to be a rule most people ignore. Either it should be enforced across the board or not at all. Watch any football match and every Keeper on the planet has violated that rule oodles of times. But anyways, It was 10 seconds...not 15...I replayed it and counted and guess what...around 5 of those seconds she was on the ground unable to get rid of it. Beyond that it's a warning first (which was not given), and then it's two other forms of punishment (added time ect.), and NOT an indirect Free kick...that's something Pederson decided to go with..and that's why even the US coach had said she never has seen that called.

I've seen it called before. The referee has her rules to follow:

Quote

An indirect free kick is awarded to the opposing team if a goalkeeper, inside his own penalty area, commits any of the following four offences:

1) controls the ball with his hands for more than six seconds before releasing it from his possession
2)touches the ball again with his hands after he has released it from his possession and before it has touched another player
[...]

I've been playing soccer since before I could walk. I religiously follow Zonal Marking, Jonathan Wilson and the other tactically focused writers. I talk with former/current players and coaches all the time about the USNT and USWNT games.

Quote

And our "terrible goalie" kept the cocky US team (I watched them say that they already thought the gold medal was theirs as a forgone conclusion before playing Canada) at bay for 120 minutes...that's a feat no one has done in a long time...and she played very well. It's funny, but Canada scored on the US team repeatedly and the US goalie looked just as flustered. You can say what you like, but Erin McLeod played her heart out, and to say she didn't is not really kosher man.

Nah, Wambach missed a couple big chances wide, Morgan blew a couple and Lloyd/Rapinoe/Cheney were blasting high fairly often. McLeod was taking bad angles all game long and was caught out of position several times (with only one goal resulting of that, thanks to the offensive miscues). That corner kick goal should never happen. Ever. Rapinoe's second goal and Wambach's goal were kind of "What are you gonna do?" goals. It is rare a goalie will be able to stop Rapinoe's shot like that or to stuff a penalty. I'm McLeod had a bad game. She would have had a worse one had the US been able to put more shots on target. The Canadian defense was regularly weak to the side switching and let Morgan take it up the corner on the left - while stuffing the corner on the right (Heather O'Reilly's favorite and only move). Morgan's goal was iffy. I'd like to see the keeper come out and punch that away, but at the same time, it was 120 minutes in and Morgan outjumped/outpositioned the defender.

The game from Solo, the US keeper, wasn't great either. However, the first goal was the result of Buehler and Carly Lloyd screwing up. Tancredi shook Lloyd loose and Buehler went to cover half-assedly, which left Sinclair open for a nice finish because LePeilbet couldn't get over in time. Solo was blameless there. Kelly O'Hara was outjumped and outpositioned on the second goal by Sinclair. There's not a whole lot Solo can do about stuff like that, although I would have liked to see her come out and punch that away. Buehler was outjumped and outpositioned on the third goal. Solo couldn't do anything about that either. Overall, Solo did a better job with angles, stuffing shots and getting the ball out correctly.

Rampone needs to quit hitting the ball up long so often. It's a waste of a very solid midfield (Heath, Cheney, Lloyd, Rapinoe) to bypass them so often.

I would start Sauerbrunn over Buehler and figure out a way to calm Rampone down. O'Hara and LePeilbet were alright when Sinclair wasn't breaking through them in the danger zone. Buehler is okay as a bully, but she can't possess the ball or calm the defense down like Sauerbrunn.

Tancredi is a raging a-hole. Buehler and Amy O'Reilly are the US's raging a-holes, with O'Reilly usually being the single worst player skill-wise on the field when she plays. She has one move - run up the line to the corner and launch a cross. If she cannot run to the corner, she launches a usually inaccurate cross. Despite her assisting on Morgan's goal, I would never start her over Tobin Heath, Laura Cheney, Carly Lloyd, Megan Rapinoe or Shannon Boxx.

This post has been edited by amphibian: 07 August 2012 - 04:35 PM

[QuickTidal]

amphibian, on 07 August 2012 - 04:33 PM, said:

Nah, Wambach missed a couple big chances wide, Morgan blew a couple and Lloyd/Rapinoe/Cheney were blasting high fairly often. McLeod was taking bad angles all game long and was caught out of position several times (with only one goal resulting of that, thanks to the offensive miscues). That corner kick goal should never happen. Ever. Rapinoe's second goal and Wambach's goal were kind of "What are you gonna do?" goals. It is rare a goalie will be able to stop Rapinoe's shot like that or to stuff a penalty. I'm McLeod had a bad game. She would have had a worse one had the US been able to put more shots on target. The Canadian defense was regularly weak to the side switching and let Morgan take it up the corner on the left - while stuffing the corner on the right (Heather O'Reilly's favorite and only move). Morgan's goal was iffy. I'd like to see the keeper come out and punch that away, but at the same time, it was 120 minutes in and Morgan outjumped/outpositioned the defender.

The game from Solo, the US keeper, wasn't great either. However, the first goal was the result of Buehler and Carly Lloyd screwing up. Tancredi shook Lloyd loose and Buehler went to cover half-assedly, which left Sinclair open for a nice finish because LePeilbet couldn't get over in time. Solo was blameless there. Kelly O'Hara was outjumped and outpositioned on the second goal by Sinclair. There's not a whole lot Solo can do about stuff like that, although I would have liked to see her come out and punch that away. Buehler was outjumped and outpositioned on the third goal. Solo couldn't do anything about that either. Overall, Solo did a better job with angles, stuffing shots and getting the ball out correctly.

Rampone needs to quit hitting the ball up long so often. It's a waste of a very solid midfield (Heath, Cheney, Lloyd, Rapinoe) to bypass them so often.

I would start Sauerbrunn over Buehler and figure out a way to calm Rampone down. O'Hara and LePeilbet were alright when Sinclair wasn't breaking through them in the danger zone. Buehler is okay as a bully, but she can't possess the ball or calm the defense down like Sauerbrunn.

Tancredi is a raging a-hole. Buehler and Amy O'Reilly are the US's raging a-holes, with O'Reilly usually being the single worst player skill-wise on the field when she plays. She has one move - run up the line to the corner and launch a cross. If she cannot run to the corner, she launches a usually inaccurate cross. Despite her assisting on Morgan's goal, I would never start her over Tobin Heath, Laura Cheney, Carly Lloyd, Megan Rapinoe or Shannon Boxx.

You forgot to list the US coach as a raging a-hole too...cause she really is.

Aside from that I can see why you want to believe you watched the above game as you saw it...but I'm just saying I saw a totally different game. But I suppose that's how these things go.

And both Sophie Schmidt and Kaylen Kyle outplayed 80% of the US team at any given moment (That's a FACT, go back and watch the game if you must), coupled with Sinclair's typically stellar performance, that's 3 Canadians that left their blood on that field and deserved better than to have it taken from them by shitty ref'ing choices.

I get my info on how the ref should have called the game by an actual ref I know who works the Toronto FC and even he said that the penalty for the keeper hold should NOT have been the free kick...she wasn't doing her job, if she did we'd have seen a yellow card to Mcleod...and we didn't. There's no way around it, it was a bullshit call. Even American News outlet's are admitting that much.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 07 August 2012 - 04:56 PM

[Abyss]

My groove is messed by the Olympics causing a lack of people making whiny first world problem level complaints about their lives that i can easily re-edit for entertainment purposes.

[Adjutant Stormy~]

Abyss, on 07 August 2012 - 05:13 PM, said:

My groove is messed by the Olympics causing a lack of people making whiny first world problem level complaints about their lives that i can easily re-edit for hackish-screenplay-fodder.

Fixed for honesty.

[Darkwatch]

All the jobs I want are out West.
I don't want to move that far for work.