[Ain't_It_Just_]

Well, pursuant to my previous post, I now have roused the ire of two of my female friends. The first invited me to her school formal some time ago, and upon hearing that I needed to leave a bit early so I could make it to another party, got incredibly pissed off. She labeled me a bad friend, tactless insensitive, and full of shit. Basically the only reason she's taking me anymore is because she has no other options, and she considers hour friendship to be on the rocks.

Meanwhile, second female friend is the one hosting the aforementioned party. She'd known about this dilemma already, but upon hearing that I couldn't wriggle out of it early and that I didn't manage to make a better compromise (which is impossible), has labeled me as a coward, unable to make tough decisions and that I am feeling sorry for myself. Meanwhile, I'm trying to work out where the fuck I went wrong.

I managed to piss off two very good friends by...trying to do the right thing with a small bit of personal gain, admittedly? I really don't need this. I'm afraid I might do something rash. Fucking fuck.

[Centzon Totochtin]

tell the first girl you are sorry and will honour your original commitment, tell the second girl you wish you could be at her party, but had a previous commitment and offer to take her out to lunch or dinner instead. Do not be someone who reneges on commitments because another offer comes up. This way you are someone who keeps his word (albeit a bit late) and you are still doing something nice for the other friend. Once you are booked, you should be booked unless something urgent, life-threatening to your or family or insanely more important comes up.

This post has been edited by Centzon Totochtin: 12 February 2012 - 02:14 PM

[Loki]

When you first agreed to go to the formal did you make it clear you would be leaving early or was it a condition you added after agreeing to go? If it's the later than I'm sorry to say it but it was a pretty dick thing to do. You should honour the first commitment - besides being the one you agreed to initially it's a formal and those are a big deal for a lot of people. It trumps a party (unless it's a milestone birthday or engagement party etc and then you're just REALLY screwed.)

[Ain't_It_Just_]

Well actually I plan to go to both, but that was never an issue, it was about leaving the formal a bit early to go to the party. Which, in retrospect, was a stupid, insensitive thing to do. In any case, I'll just have to wait for them to cool down, and then I can try to make amends.

[Loki]

I seem to have set a PM as my homepage on my phone. Not sure how it happend but I've put my old homepage back in my settings but it still opens to the PM. Do phones have cookies that you can clear? I'm looking but I can't find them. Anyone know where to go to clear cookies on a Samsung Galaxy SII?

This post has been edited by Loki: 12 February 2012 - 03:17 PM

[amphibian]

Centzon Totochtin, on 12 February 2012 - 01:53 PM, said:

tell the first girl you are sorry and will honour your original commitment, tell the second girl you wish you could be at her party, but had a previous commitment and offer to take her out to lunch or dinner instead. Do not be someone who reneges on commitments because another offer comes up. This way you are someone who keeps his word (albeit a bit late) and you are still doing something nice for the other friend. Once you are booked, you should be booked unless something urgent, life-threatening to your or family or insanely more important comes up.

Nope. You're reacting with your emotions.

Loki, on 12 February 2012 - 02:04 PM, said:

When you first agreed to go to the formal did you make it clear you would be leaving early or was it a condition you added after agreeing to go? If it's the later than I'm sorry to say it but it was a pretty dick thing to do. You should honour the first commitment - besides being the one you agreed to initially it's a formal and those are a big deal for a lot of people. It trumps a party (unless it's a milestone birthday or engagement party etc and then you're just REALLY screwed.)

Nope. You're reacting with your emotions.

Ain, on 12 February 2012 - 02:21 PM, said:

Well actually I plan to go to both, but that was never an issue, it was about leaving the formal a bit early to go to the party. Which, in retrospect, was a stupid, insensitive thing to do. In any case, I'll just have to wait for them to cool down, and then I can try to make amends.

It's not that stupid. A bunch of men on this board here were telling you that you can make it to both and be just fine. It's the women - who are reacting to the emotional component of a girl at her formal feeling lonely or pissed off - that are telling you it was a stupid idea.

Guess where the truth probably rests? In between the two. If this is a straight friendship deal with the girl at the formal (no possibility or expectation of hooking up afterwards) then you leaving before the thing is over is not a big deal. You escort her, you dance, you have a great time and then when the clock hits the right hour, you're out and leaving behind a happy girl. Get at least one slow dance with her though. Formals tend to limp to conclusions. The first half is fun, then it gets old and people start looking for ways to bail and go get to the real parties and bedrooms and so on. Or sleep if they've been hitting the sauce a bit much.

As for the second, parties don't get going until the second half - which is the half you'll be arriving for. You'll be dressed kinda sharp and fresh with news or gossip from the formal. You can change into your regular clothes soon after arriving and then have the kinds of fun that are not possible at a grown-up regulated formal dance.

It is entirely possible to do both in one night without offending people. You're kind of stuck with teenage girl world-centrism here. They believe this night should be all about them and you are almost a stage prop in the theater of their lives. You should stay quietly firm about this and make sure that you give each woman and party the best of your time and energy. I've done three parties in one night with zero negative repercussions. Don't make a big deal out of leaving or make it look like you're ditching one for the other. In the future, just say that you have to get home for a curfew or something that's not easily rebutted.

[tiam]

^ Meanwhile in chauvinism - ville

Seriously thoughI think Amph might be right though this problem wouldnt happen with guys. If I were you AIJ id just commit yourself to one as they want to be the centre of your attention, which is fair enough. However striking a middle ground between two teenage girls is shaky and doing both may end up with you alienating both of them. TBH Amph has it, as unless the first formal part of the date is leading anywhere then you can leave without feeling guilty as there no expectation of you staying all night.

A better plan would have been to tell the girl at the party you might not be able to come then turn up. Shell be 100% happy to see you and will hopefully be glad your there whereas the formal girl will still be 50% annoyed. The way youve done it both girls dont feel as valued as the other (despite the fact that its pretty much equal) so both will be 50% annoyed.

You struck for the middle, honest ground which is admirable but proves your a rookie in this game

This post has been edited by tiam: 12 February 2012 - 07:17 PM

[MTS]

Firstly, any girl who would get upset at you for not going to her shitty party when she actually knew beforehand that you were otherwise busy that night is the one who should be labelled as a bad friend, not you. What kind of person labels you a coward and not being able to 'make tough decisions' when you're essentially ditching a friend for somebody else (which, let's be honest, is kinda what you're planning to do)? I'm sure she'd be singing a different tune if the shoe was on the other foot. True friends don't pull that shit.

Secondly, the mere fact you have to say this

Quote

trying to do the right thing with a small bit of personal gain, admittedly?

clearly shows that even you know you did something wrong here. Your friend was right to say that you were tactless. Think about it from her point of view: she asks you to go to her formal (note: not something that happens often) and you agree. She's happy, you presumably say yes because you want to be a good friend. Suddenly however you up and say something to the effect of 'hey, I'm really sorry but would you mind if I left your formal a bit early? 'Cos there's this other party at X's house, you know, and I really wanna go and...you understand, right?' Come on man, this is her formal. People take that shit seriously, and for you to want to leave says to her that you think this other party is more important to you than your friendship with her. Take special note of the fact she invited you because she had no other options. That just makes it more likely she is going to view your leaving before the night is over as abandonment, especially as you presumably had no idea about this party before you agreed to take her. Amph can very callously and rather tactlessly cry 'teenage girl world-centrism' here all he wants, this is a formal, this isn't some bullshit party you can make an appearance at and then just fuck off into the night. Yeah, some people might think they taper off (a large part of them male I imagine), but she might actually take it a bit more seriously than that and want you to stay till the end. Like it or not you made a commitment dude, fucking nut up and keep it. There are worse things in life than getting to slow dance with a girl, and is a mere party really worth losing a friendship over? There are plenty more parties in life than honest-to-God friendships, I can tell you that, and most parties are pretty damn unremarkable anyway.

Personally, I wouldn't wait for either of them to cool down, I'd apologise to the first girl and say you would be honoured to escort her to her formal and tell the second girl to fuck off. But that's just me.

[amphibian]

Formals happen all the time. That's why the teenage girl world-centrism is so odd - especially in high school. There are college formals, fundraising formals, company parties, weddings and so on that are all yet to come.

But because these formals happen in high school, they get an outsized portion of drama and "This is important to me!" heaped upon them by a group of people that is 95% women. The strangest thing about all this is that high school formals are terrible in comparison to all the others. Open bar? You being the adult? Having the foresight, cash and wisdom to get a room/ride home? Mostly going to these events with a date who you would likely be having special fun time with or having the chops to pick a fun person up at the event? All of those things make formals later in life vastly cooler than high school ones.

This is girl drama queen stuff and AIJ should stick to his plan, while making the experience as fun as possible for them AND for him. Doing things for personal gain is the point - even of altruism. If I help others, they'll help me or contribute to the rising tide lifting all boats phenomenon.

You can call me chauvinist or whatever. I've attended many, many formals, dealt with all kinds of drama and caused many of my own. The most recent one - the law school prom - was the most fun because I had a place to stay, a gorgeous date who I loved and she loved me, many good friends to hang with, an open bar, a place to stay and the after-party strip club trip all planned out and ready to go. All that awesomeness was built upon many, many screw-ups that came before.

Going to both events is not a screw-up. It's a mature decision that can be stuck to without actually offending anyone with half a brain. The only part left to do is to ensure that the girl from the formal party has a ride home and isn't left stranded. That's it. Nothing else needs to be done.

[MTS]

amphibian, on 12 February 2012 - 08:05 PM, said:

Formals happen all the time. That's why the teenage girl world-centrism is so odd - especially in high school. There are college formals, fundraising formals, company parties, weddings and so on that are all yet to come.

But because these formals happen in high school, they get an outsized portion of drama and "This is important to me!" heaped upon them by a group of people that is 95% women. The strangest thing about all this is that high school formals are terrible in comparison to all the others. Open bar? You being the adult? Having the foresight, cash and wisdom to get a room/ride home? Mostly going to these events with a date who you would likely be having special fun time with or having the chops to pick a fun person up at the event? All of those things make formals later in life vastly cooler than high school ones.

This is girl drama queen stuff and AIJ should stick to his plan, while making the experience as fun as possible for them AND for him. Doing things for personal gain is the point - even of altruism. If I help others, they'll help me or contribute to the rising tide lifting all boats phenomenon.

What you seem to forget Amph is that for a lot of girls these are the first really formal events for them to get dressed up and have a really spectacular evening, and so as a result they are the most important for them. The later events you describe are theoretical at best in the minds of most teenagers, as are the more mature aspects of them, so I don't know why you're expecting teenagers to have the so-called perspective to dismiss their formals as vastly inferior compared to the awesometastic ones they will hypothetically have in the future. Also you seem to forget the massive importance of peer perception in high school, and these kind of events play a large role in that i.e. AIJ's friend asking him to take her because she had nobody else to do so. It's not 'girl drama queen' stuff at all I don't think. Like I said earlier, if someone did that to me I'd be pissed off myself.

Quote

Going to both events is not a screw-up.

Not in and of itself, no. In the way it was handled? I think the resulting fallout speaks for itself.

[Silencer]

I'm mostly with MTS on this one, I have to say - yes, the *rational*, 20/20-hindsight version of the situation is not the one that matters, because the people involved do not have the luxury of that perspective (it's not a perfect world, Amph XD). And while the old high school formal is the time for chicks to overdo their makeup, generally make retrospective fools of themselves, and what have you, it's bloody important to them. Therefore, one needs to take that into account ('irrational' or not) when making choices and plans around the situation. Which is where AIJ has got himself into trouble, in that trying to please both parts/have the best of both worlds, underestimated the value of the event to the first girl and...the second girl is either a bit clingy-and-self-centred even WITHOUT the idea of a formal, or...well, yeah. XD

[Illuyankas]

What the flying fuck, Amph?

"Heh, you FEMALES and your EMOTIONS, you probably can't even tell how wrong you are! Now let me explain why you're wrong and I and all the men are right! First off, she may be your friend and she may have asked you to the formal because she appreciates your company and doesn't want to have a shitty time but if you don't think you'll get your dick wet then DAMN SON get outta there! But don't just run out or explain to your friends who trust you why you're going so early, just flat out lie to their faces about a curfew or some other bullshit they can't check easily."

"Oh, don't worry if she'll be offended! There will be plenty of formals later in life that'll be much easier to fuck about in and how you've treated your friends so far won't matter because that was the shit ones that may mean a lot to those girl drama queens but fuck all to you, so why even bother? Oh, I've had a lot of formals and parties and shit, three in one night! And none of my friends said they minded me fucking off partway through because I let them know I had somewhere better to be earlier in the day. Most importantly though, this isn't a screw up, it's a mature decision to attend both events at the same time which ONLY GIRLS ARE OFFENDED BY AND ONLY PEOPLE WITH HALF A BRAIN ARE OFFENDED BY WHY I'M SURE THERE'S A CONNECTION HERE SOMEWHERE NOT CHAUVINIST AT ALL, BUDDY, NOT AT FUCKING ALL and all you have to do is call your friend a cab, and nothing else."

What the fuck is wrong with you?

This post has been edited by Greymanekas: 13 February 2012 - 12:09 AM

[Macros]

I think he's right

[worry]

Admins, can we please move the entirety of the "What's messing with your groove?" thread to the Discussion forum.

[Silencer]

Why? So that there is actually some semblance of 'rules' or because it often devolves into something vaguely representing a 'discussion'? >.<

[Gust Hubb]

Ok, reseting the thread

 Picture 10.png (40.42K)
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Centzon Totochtin, on 14 October 2008 - 10:51 PM, said:

Cos I couldn't find the old one.... here it is again... the whinging thread

My groove is messed with my the pigeon and possibly also a possum outside my window at bloody 6:30am this morning waking me up I only went to bed at 1:30am-ish, I did not want to be up at this hour!!!

This post has been edited by Gust Hubb: 13 February 2012 - 12:53 AM

[Gust Hubb]

Those missing pictures (probably emoticons) are messing with my groove.

[Ain't_It_Just_]

I agree, my own personal problems are causing a clog. If anyone has further interest they can PM me.

Let us begin anew.

[worry]

People should only say the opposite of what they mean, for clarity.

[JLV]

I would argue that you should do exactly what will get you laid, and nothing more.