[Tenaka Khan]

It was an interesting read, even though I could only really enjoy it the second time through, during the first read it was a bit too confusing. I loved the fact that we learn more about the First Sword, Dassem and Dacer and Kellanved himself. It was also great to get to know Tayschrenn a bit more. I really start to like him as a character and look forward to see more of him. And darn, he's gotta be powerful (Stormriders).

One thing struck me when I read it the second time. Tayschrenn says something along the line of "Reminds me of the Emperor at his most brutal" when he sees the stormfront created by the Stormriders. That made me think about how powerful a mage Kellanved actually was even before he ascended. There has been a discussion going on in another thread about how powerful Tays actually is, and there are also some hints in NoK that he is one of the most powerful human mages around. So I think Kellanved might well have been even more powerful as Tays whe still being a 'normal' human. Now that he's ascended, I guess his power (in terms of unleashing of sorceries) has to be huge. In the 'regular' series, Shadowthrone only played a minor part (in terms of 'screentime') up to now, and that led me to underestimate his might. I guess I am not alone in that. Got my fingers crossed that we'll see lots more of him, and of course Cotillion in the next books

There is one thing bugging me however. Why did Dancer and the Emperor have to creat the whole diversion with the Shadow Cult and so on to get into the Deadhouse? They were 'chosen' by it before and could enter it without all the drama. Perhaps they just wanted to play it safe, who knows...

My bet for the character in BH would also be Temper, even though I wonder what became of Kiska.


Thank you ICE for a thrilling look behind the scenes, I am looking forward to more spin offs

[vaiski]

About Kellanved's power..

Hetan said:

When Kellanved arrived in the Mock's Hold just prior to Surly's attack.. An overpowering sensation of pressure bore down upon her like an invisible hand. She senses something enormous nearby, silent in the dark.....A gravid deadly presence too huge to grant her notice. She glanced at Tayschrenn and saw him grimace........ A droplet of blood fell from his nose.

This sounds remarkably like the scene in GotM when Rake arrives in Baruk's house.

[Tenaka Khan]

Thanks for digging that out Vaiski, was too lazy to go through all the pages That quotation makes it even more obvious how powerful Kellanved must have been. We know that the Deadhouse granted the Old Guard an unusually long life span. I wonder if the Emperors stay in it prior to his ascension also had a positive effect on his abilities as a mage.

[Dave]

This was a great read, but there's something that I don't think has been touched on here that I wanted to get people's opinions on.

At one stage Edgewalker says he can't concentrate on the obvious threat to the Shadow realm because of the ice - which were the storm riders. Agayla says the storm riders are attacking because Surly's purge of mages has left the island's defences weakened.

Is Surly actually working with Kellanved? Did she execute the purge due to orders, or a plan, of Kellanved's so that the Shadow Realm/Deadhouse (I'm not sure how the two of them are connected really) would be left relatively unguarded at the crucial moment?

Despite the apparently obvious animosity toward Laseen from Shadowthrone and Cotillion in GOTM, this just seems like too much of a coincidence. Mind you, they've certainly killed a lot of underlings to disguise their collusion if this is the case, which begs the question who they're trying to hide their cooperation from and why. Not that I have any definite answers at this point, I'm just curious as to what others think.

Actually, I have a bit of a theory. The Deadhouse provides a gate to the Shadow realm only during a Shadow Moon; which explains why despite the fact Kellanved and company had gained entrance to the DH previously, they needed to do so again on that night. The storm riders also need access not just to te DH, but the Shadow Realm as well, but have previously never attacked due to the wealth of mages on Malaz island. Surly directs the purge under orders from Kellanved, so that, on the next Shadow Moon, the riders will attack and distract Edgewalker. They agree, however, to pretend to enmity so as to keep their collusion hidden from the Nameless Ones. Maybe they know, or suspect, that Tay is an agent of the Nameless Ones, so they need a convincing battle. The biggest problem with this is what Surly would have done/said if Kell. and Dancer had failed to ascend. Just some ideas.

[Abyss]

The way i figure it, Kellanved needed to appear to die in order to take over Meanas, either to ascend to Shadowthrone, or to ensure other powers didn't associate his mortal empire with the High House and Shadow warren.

And he knew that given the oportunity to take over the Empire, Surly would attempt to kill him.

And to use the Deadhouse to access Meanas, he needed to enter it during the Shadowmoon.

So he made sure Surly knew when he would return, and gave her plenty of time to plan for it, while he was off searching out other Thrones. Meanwhile, he got all his other pawns in place, such as the cultists.

I like the notion that Kell also deliberately got Surly to weaken the Island's defences so the Stormriders would make a play and further weaken both the Deadhouse and Meanas' defences. We can only assume he knew other powers would ensure the island wasn't taken over by the Riders in turn.

- Abyss, wants to be Kellanved when I grows up.

[Tenaka Khan]

Abyss said:

And to use the Deadhouse to access Meanas, he needed to enter it during the Shadowmoon.

Hm, that might explain why he/they had to create the diversion. Perhaps they would still have had easy access to the Deadhouse any normal day, but during Shadowmoon, when the DH becomes a gateway to the Throne of Shadow, the Azath would try to repell any intruders. But it still let them in, even though they used the backdoor... :Erm: so maybe the DH letting them enter wasn't the issue, but the fact that during Shadowmoon all kinds of nasty fiends stroll around the courtyard, so they had to find a way to avoid those...

[Imperial Historian]

Really? i'd say that dassem didn't become dassembrae until hood had taken his daughter... after all before that was there for him to feel tragic about?

[Iron Bars]

Maybe he was Dassembrae but forgot because his tragidy was to great for him (something in the same style as Icarium).

[Tenaka Khan]

I guess you refer to the slaughter at Aren. But that was still during the time Kellanved was sitting on both the empire's and the throne of the T'lan Imass (that's the First throne, no?).

[Abyss]

re: Patronage - I had the impression patron gods or mages chose their champion, not the other way around. Sure, any idiot with a sword could worship Hood, but not just anyone is selected by Hood to handle a portion of his power.

Also, considering the hint Dassem had killed off a bunch of Hood's priests, and considering what happened when Temper tried to stab Dassem to wake him up, i wonder whether once a champion is selected bya power, that selection cannot be withdrawn. Ie: the CG never de-championed Karsa in HoC.


As for Dassem ascending and becoming Dessembrae, we assume that he's actually done so and become a god. But if he's Traveller, he didn't seem very godlike in HoC. I wonder if perhaps he hasn't gone all the way with the godhood thing.


- Abyss, has gone all the way with, well, nevermind, TMI, forget i said anything...

[vaiski]

Abyss said:

But if he's Traveller, he didn't seem very godlike in HoC. I wonder if perhaps he hasn't gone all the way with the godhood thing.

Dunno about godhood, but there is this line in HoC:
"Thank your god, mortal", for the sword."

So, ascendant at least.

[Abyss]

Hetan said:

makes me think of Rake spending time as a guard somewhere for a number of years? he probably didn't appear very god-like either

Ahhh, but altho' tremendously powerful, strictly speaking, Rake isn't a god.

Vaiski's Traveller-quote is spot on, but then, i do not doubt whether he was Dassem or not, Traveller was Ascendent.

- Abyss, transcendent.

[Abyss]

But he knew the secret handshake and EVERYthing.

- Abyss, also knows the password.