[Imperial Historian]

Yeah, i just noticed that inconsistency, i always got telas and thyr mixed up...

So according to NoK tatersail and tays use teh same warren... do we get confirmation in MOI about what warren tays uses?

quote:

Although, my personal theory is that because telas and thyr are so alike, that two positives, as it were, repel each other.

That would suggest people who wielded the same warren would repel each other more... btu all the squad mages in HoC use meanas so that doesn't quite work.

I think it's most likely that this is merely a GotMism as Kamek said...

[Fist Gamet]

Yes, agree with Abyss, the Riders were "alien" and were coming to Malaz Isle under the influence of Shadow Moon to either 1. Escape the Straits (as was suggested, iirc) or 2. Get to the Deadhouse.
Agayla tells us that this is only possible for the Riders because Laseen's purge against the local magery left them too weak to repel the Riders. The fisherman was one of the survivors of the purge (he was a wavesinger, or something like that), like Agayla.

Overall, quite enjoyable but a little dissappointed. I felt that the story got a bit confused at moments and I struggled now and then to follow ICE's writing (just a question of clarity, to my mind) but my main gripe was that the story was nowhere near exciting or violent enough. I mean, we never really saw any of these terrible "nightmares" and there was not nearly enough suspense or horror, imho. Following on from the SE tradition of hints and bluffs was welcome (and filling in a few blanks created by SE) and he did create a few excellent characters , especially Temper (that old sod had no idea just how damned good a fighter he was).

Lastlt, I might have missed something obvious throughout SE's books but I NEVER IMAGINED Kel...I mean, he ...looked like that!!!!

[Kalahinen]

So Dassem didn't die at Y'Ghatan?

[Therion]

I have a new (loony?) theory - could Edgewalker be Scabandari, resurrected in some form? Sure, he is walking Kurald Emuhrlan which would probably not be a fitting prison for someone associated with Shadow. OTOH, it would make a nice punishment if he were able only to guard, yet never take control of the warren (again?).

Is my mind playing tricks on me, or do I seem to recall that in one of Edgewalker's POVs it is mentioned that he tried to control/was in control of the warren once?

If he were Scabandari, him attempting to take control of Emuhrlan would imply that there was some higher power than himself, which would have to be Mother Dark. Maybe Kurald Emuhrlan was literally ripped from Kurald Galain, i.e. Mother Darks influence? And while Scabandari and the Edur had influence, the "creation" of the warren and its Throne did not necessarily imply that Scabandari would occupy it -- possibly due to the laws of nature/sorcery, or some action by Mother Dark or the Andii?

[Abyss]

Edgy did say he tried to control it once.

I would have thought Meanas didn't even exist as such when Scabby was shattered by the Elder Gods, but hey, a lot can happen in a few hundred thousand years. It could have existed as a fragment of KE even then.

I like the poetry of expansionist Scabby being forced to eternally walk the borders of a realm he could never control. The personality/attitude seems all wrong for it to be him, but again, a few thousand years can be excellent therapy for anti-social tendencies.

One also wonders where this tendency of Meanas to enslave those who tried to control it came from, and how the Hounds ended up in the same boat, but obeying Shadowthrone, unlike Edgy who told him to bug right off.

- Abyss, thinks Edgewalker needs a serious pedicure.

[cowl]

Abyss said:

One also wonders where this tendency of Meanas to enslave those who tried to control it came from, and how the Hounds ended up in the same boat, but obeying Shadowthrone, unlike Edgy who told him to bug right off.

I didn't think that Edgewalker and Shadowthrone had met. if they had the it would have been Kellanved nyway wouldn't it as he hadn't taken over then. maybe edgewalker has to obey shadowthrone now he's in charge of the realm.

[Set'alahd Crool]

Edgewalker. I seem to recall something about him. Some rumour.....
It's gone again.

@Cowl: They meet alright. I got the impression that Edgewalker is a slave TO shadow rather than being a slave IN shadow. He's not shadowkeep's fulltime buttler, subject to its ruler's whims. He walks the borders of Emurlahn. And if Jhedel can be believed he's a lot more than your average god. Or was, at least.

Scabby? Maybe. Maybe not. That's one of which we probably will learn the truth. Edgewalker's identity, if he's not Scabby, might well remain a mystery.

[Rel]

Hetan said:

revelation....

...the spicy smell of the Hounds...

That bit struck me as odd, actually. If it means what I think it means, then I'm surprised we haven't had a hint of it before.

[Abyss]

It's been implied, more than once, mostly in HoC, that the Hounds of Shadow were tied to Dessimbelackis, who was D'ivers, and who did have seven forms.

The theory that the Hounds are or once were some form of shapeshifter isn't TOO crazed.

- Abyss, some form of seatshifter.

[Iron Bars]

Wasn't it the Hounds of Darkness that had a link to Dessimbelackis? Anyway how does it tie in with NoK?

[cowl]

Iron Bars said:

Wasn't it the Hounds of Darkness that had a link to Dessimbelackis? Anyway how does it tie in with NoK?

i think their tying in the spicy smell of the Hounds in NoK with whats been said about soultaken in other books that when they change theres a a spicy smell. hinting that the hounds are soultaken

[Iron Bars]

Which part is this, I seem to have missed it. Probably the Rood vs Temper fight.

Time for a reread (already).

[Abyss]

Hmmm...

Dassem Ultor - First Sword, tasked with finding the enemy's champions and drawing them out in order to kill them and thus damage enemy moral and prompt Malazan victory.


Rhulad Sengar - Emporer, forced by the CG into finding enemy champions who might kill him so he can get stronger, come back and kill them and thus damage enem,y morale and prompt Edur victory.


Random coincidence? Deliberate parallel? Abyss is procrastinating real work too much? Discuss.

- Abyss, probably the last option.

[Hume]

Well I just finished it then.

Great Book overall, found it didnt really pick up till around half-way.
However House of chains I found to be a little condusing, GotM, DG, MoI and MT I didnt find confusing at all.
Night of Knives though, this for me was by far the most confusing one of all.

Loved Temper from the start, epecially his flashbacks to Y'Ghtatan and Dassems "death"


So just to add my two cents on some things floating around so far.

The whole Temper "Guardian" and Jhenna "Guardian" thing.
The way I saw it was that Dancer and Kellanved went through the back while their cultist friends out the front distracted the fiends. One of these fiends of course being a Jaghut. Those two blokes attacked Jhenna so she couldnt stop Dancer and Kellanved getting in really. Because of the "Shadow Night" it seems that Jhenna had an oppurtunity to escape the azath grounds when it got attacked. When the two blokes died (forgot their names) Temper had to stand in to stop her getting out.
Temper defeated her with the help of the Azath, Corrin and The Hunchback and the Azath grounds took her again into the ground.

So, the way I see it. Temper is a guard at Mocks hold, he is NOT a guardian of the deahouse or related to or needed by it in ANY manner at all, once he defeated Jhenna his role was finished. Jhenna was a PRISONER of the deadhosue and wanted to leave, she however was also an unwitting and unwanting defacto guardian. Gothos on the other hand was a prisoner but he accepted that fact while Jhenna didnt and Gothos in effect was more of a guardian than Jhenna ever was. The way I saw it he guarded the house when it was in REAL trouble (like the odanhouse style trouble in DG).
So, Gothos was always there as an accepted Guardian while Jhenna didnt like being there.

The stormriders, woah that was a bit off-center having some new and all powerful force being introduced again for me. Didnt mind it too much though, loved that bit at the end with what the stormrider says.

Dassem, Top Bloke as well, agree with Hetan there, he is definately one of the coolest of the old guard probly second after whiskeyjack at this stage. Hope to see him again soon, I think we will. The book also shows how Good Dassem really is as well as Skinner, also gotta think that Whiskeyjack could fight Dassem for a while until Dassem would win, makes you think how good Whiskey must have been as well. (Whiskey = Iron Bars Level of skill?)
One thing this didnt clarify, which I wanted it too.
When exactly did Dassem Ascend ?
Was it a Coltaine sort of thing where as over time due his awesome sword powers and tactical prowess he ascended sort off. As we see no magical ability or hear from it at all. We only get a strong Hint of power from Apsalar that Dassem has in HoC, he also kicked some edur arse as well.
Did he ascend when he 'died' ?
Did hood have a hand in it ? clearly having a Patron was a popular thing in the early days of the empire and Dassem chose hood until hood took his daughter obviously. There is also the quite (forgot who said it) "Dassem's power had grown to Rival Hoods own".
Hmm Food for thought ? when was ascension for him or was it a event over time for him ?

Kiska took a little bit to grow on me, like her though a lot towards the end.

Best character probly Temper, Though I doubt we'll see him again.


I think it'll be either Kiska or Ferulle that we see in Bonehunters.

[Folken]

On temper...yes we will. Steven Erikson said he loved Temper and would use him soon. I think in BH, iirc.

[Hume]

^^
Really ?

Where did he say that ?

at the KeyCon thing ?

[Abyss]

I had thought someone, possibly Patch, had mentioned that NoK was the only place to meet a character who appears in BH, but not necessarily that it was a viewpoint character. Since new viewpoint characters amount to Temper, Kiska and briefly her Aunt, it could go any which way.

Kiska's fun, but with Apsalar and presumably Felisin Younger and that female soldier from Fiddler's platoon who liked knives, in BH, we've got our quota of young rebellious female characters. Since one can never have enough grizzled veterans, and BH is supposed to tie to Yghatan, where Temper's some of flashbacks occured, I'd go with Temper, who WAS a great character.

Relatedly, I understood that when he accepted the Guardianship of the Deadhouse, it wasn't a one-time deal.

- Abyss, has zero problem with abundant young rebellious females with knives.

[Folken]

Yeah that thing Patch said coupled with how much Erikson loved the character of Temper, it just seems logical thats the character Patch was refering to. But then again what do we know.