[Skywalker]

Spoilers ahead for those who haven't read the B&KB novellae...



I warn ya...



I double warn ya...




So is Greymane really dead? I started reading the omnibus I ordered from PS and this was easily the most throw-offy distracting bit of offhand information in the book.

Other enjoyable nuggets: Meeting the mortal sword of Soliel/ Poliel, the Sergeant investigator is pretty cool, Whitemane the soletaken, the guy that is trailing B&KB for many years now (hope he turns up again!).

[Aptorian]

Quotes or it didnt happen. I have no Idea what you're talking about?

Keep in mind that the novellas take place some time before MoI and probably GotM aswell. If Graymane is mentioned it could be before he disappears. Or news hasn't reached the far away places Bauchelin and Korbald Broach frequent.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Don't have the quote, but someone casually mentions that Greymane was killed by his own men.

Skeptical on whether that is true, especially when you consider the record of Old Guard/Family members "dying".

[Skywalker]

Pg 30, B&KB Omnibus hardback: When Guld is musing atop Sekarand's tower:

Quote

In the days when the Mell'zan empire had first threatened the city states of Theft - mostly on the other coast, where Imperial Fist Greymane had landed his invasion force, coming close to conquering the entire island before being murdered by his own troops - in the days of smoke and threatening wind...

[Aptorian]

This along with about two other mentions is all we know about Greymane.

I don't think we can say anymore on the subject untill ICE reveals something. I do believe it was pointed out that Greymane was ICE territory.

[Dancer+]

We're due to have more knowledge of Greymane when RotCG comes out, he's confirmed as a participant/he has an appearance.

The real question is: real participation or flashback.

[Spindrift]

I just read Blood Follows so i was wondering that too . But it seems like that knowledge was second or third hand. more rumor than anything. It does hint that something went terribly wrong with the invasion and that it was possibly some kind of mutiny. That doesn't mean that greymane is dead though, or that he even got hurt.

[Dancer+]

I'm not sure which way to flip this, is Greymane dead or alive? I don't know, I can't predict SE in this manner, typically Greymane would still be alive and kicking...but with SE, he may just let it rest. But my god wouldn't ripples be abound if Greymane was none other than Ereko.

SPOILER! SPOILER! SPOILER! Ah, yes. I got caught up in the shouting. The spoiler is such a spoiler that by the end of the spoiler you may have extra knowledge of who Ereko, Traveller and events that may unfold in RotCG are. SPOILER! SPOILER! SPOILER!

Spoiler

Greymane and Dassem Ultor, together, returning to Unta to confront either the CGrd or Laseen

[Skywalker]

Dancer;232858 said:

But my god wouldn't ripples be abound if Greymane was none other than Ereko.

Much likelier that Ereko be Urko...

[Dancer+]

Why so?

Is that a hint that Greymane is very unlikely to be Ereko or that Urko is likely to be Ereko? I don't see why someone would change their name slightly.

Keeping with consistency.

Spoiler

I think Greymane is more likely be Ereko because both Dassem and Greymane were high-ranking Malazan officials, they both were betrayed. Personally I think Greymane was another one of the Laseen betrayals, although it was unfortunate that Malaz lost their entire momentum on the island but that wasn't the plan. Why would Greymane be immune to Laseen's house-cleaning, unless he was subservent and no threat to the throne. I think he would have been so Laseen struck.

That's one thing that Dassem and Greymane may have in common. The other thing they have in common is they both excel with a sword, so they could rely on each other in this future plan of theirs. Plus the two of them together would be mind-blowing where Dassem and Urko would be merely good - which doesn't offer a practical reason for them to be together but it offers a positive for the author putting them together.

Greymane is a confirmed for RotCG and you'd like to think he would be mentioned in the synopsis. Ereko to me immediately struck me as Greymane, it's a Greymane name, but that is just my opinion and it hardly reflects anything even remotely concrete.

Just my thoughts and hopes on the matter. Hardly concrete evidence, but enough to consider especially because of the sheer prospect of such an event.

[Skywalker]

Ereko = Urko...

Well I was just going with the names being too alike. There was a thread floating around here where such speculation was in the offing too...

You have some nice points @ Ereko = Greymane though.

[Dancer+]

Ereko = Toc the Elder has been brought up. How much merit do you give this suggestion?

And the inevitable question if Ereko is TtE then when is Greymane going to make an appearance if ever.

[Skywalker]

Well, for Greymane or Urko or Toc the Elder to feature in RoTCG they don't have to be Ereko.

Things could go like this:

1) If Ereko = Urko: Traveller left Drift Avalii, picked Urko up at his Tower, then came to meet up with Toc the Elder, Cartheron, Greymane et al at various locations.

2) If Ereko = Greymane: Greymane faked his death, got on a ship and left for the Empire. Met up with Traveller (headed out of Drift Avalii) either en route or once he got there. Took the name of Ereko as a joke (they don't really know Urko is around).

Ereko = Toc the Elder: I don't really like this theory. No particular reason, but Toc the Elder is more of an Enigma than Greymane or Urko (for both of whom we can atleast tentatively point to a location). It would seem Toc the Elder warrants a slow, teasing introduction rather than - there you go, he's with Dassem.

[Dancer+]

Good analysis of the situation.

The greatest piece of evidence to suggest Ereko is more likely to be Greymane rather than Toc the Elder and Urko is he is a confirmed participant in the novel. My suspicion is Greymane is issued appearance in a flashback and someone else gave mild support for this theory. Toc the Elder and Urko are unconfirmed and we have no reason to suppose either are to be involved heavily; Urko makes least sense of all and all I can think of with Toc the Elder is their common link with Hood but apparently TtE stayed loyal. This obviously discounts the old guard link. The reason I am so weary with TtE is, his name has been floating about for a long time but nothing has built on this foundation (discounting the brief mention in RG)

[Skywalker]

That being said, I was in the midst of a reread of the Bonehunters recently and one of the things early on is - Cotillion tells Apsalar that her going to meet Urko is a good thing because he needs a little shaking up.

That is a pretty good indication that ST/ Cot are counting on the old guard becoming active again... they found Traveller/ Hawl after sending Apsalar to Drift Avalii too.

[Dancer+]

Would Shadowthrone and Cotillion wish for Urko/The Old Guard to take power from Laseen however? I think, Skywalker, it was you who brought up the difference between the old hands and the old guard in the synopsis.

It's difficult where this one's going to go. A lot of questions about the nature of the empire are going to be revealed in this upcoming book. As for Greymane and whether he's Ereko at the moment we have to guess.

[Skywalker]

Shadowthrone and Cotillion do have an interest in the Empire - only they aren't about to start interfering in its fate actively.

As of the end of the Bonehunters, we know that Cartheron Crust, Nil, Nether, Temul etc. are on their way to the eye of the storm. The RoTCG blurb tells us Traveller, the mysterious Ereko, and some other veterans are converging along with Prince K'azz D'avore and the Crimson Guard. The Empress is absolutely isolated now - Tayschrenn is 'taking the long view on matters' as usual, Mallick Rel has usurped the Claw with his new organization called the "Black Glove", Korbolo Dom is First Sword...

RoTCG will spell the end of Laseen's reign methinks - unless she is diabolical enough (and the blurb does hint that way) to use the convergence as a spring cleaning opportunity and let the Crimson Guard and the veterans cancel out the influence of Rel and Dom somehow.

Either she gets deposed, or at the end of things she comes out shining all pearly white on top of the midden heap.

[Dancer+]

I've just noticed that the title includes "HE". A stroke of genius. Greymane has become some mythical creature, do we even know anything of his previous exploits apart from his alleged sword fighting ability. Why would Caladan Brood and Kallor know Greymane? Apart from the obvious "know your enemies".

[Skywalker]

Skywalker, on Feb 5 2008, 09:17 PM, said:

Shadowthrone and Cotillion do have an interest in the Empire - only they aren't about to start interfering in its fate actively.

As of the end of the Bonehunters, we know that Cartheron Crust, Nil, Nether, Temul etc. are on their way to the eye of the storm. The RoTCG blurb tells us Traveller, the mysterious Ereko, and some other veterans are converging along with Prince K'azz D'avore and the Crimson Guard. The Empress is absolutely isolated now - Tayschrenn is 'taking the long view on matters' as usual, Mallick Rel has usurped the Claw with his new organization called the "Black Glove", Korbolo Dom is First Sword...

RoTCG will spell the end of Laseen's reign methinks - unless she is diabolical enough (and the blurb does hint that way) to use the convergence as a spring cleaning opportunity and let the Crimson Guard and the veterans cancel out the influence of Rel and Dom somehow.

Either she gets deposed, or at the end of things she comes out shining all pearly white on top of the midden heap.

Self-congratulatory bump to say: (Spoilers for RoTCG)

Spoiler

I AM SO FREAKING PRE-SCIENT... SINCE MY PREDICTION ON LASEEN CAME TRUE... well kinda