[alt146]

Dunno how good of an idea that is Unfortunately I've found that most people actually enjoy reading crap (in any genre). Actually that applies to music and movies as well I guess. Without all the income from the uninformed masses, the entire industry would likely collapse.

And most of you will have to admit, very few people start their fantasy reading with the really good books. I know I didnt. Early in highschool I read Eddings and other similar authors and loved it. Then I got bored with them and read WoT and loved that. Then I found GRRM and loved that. Only after that did I stumble onto SE, and am now a fervent believer I doubt I would have stuck through GotM when I was 14 and if stuff like Eddings wasn't around at that time I wouldn't be such a big reader now

Also, who would we have to revile then And it adds to your appreciation of the good books, cos you know how crap they could have been...

[James]

@alt
i started with Raymond Feist, which was good, at 11 and pretty much just read anything regardless of how shitty it was just to prepare me for Gr 12 Literature , only really found about 13 or so really good series/author which kinda proves your point.
*sighs* but, i suppose your right, but it'd still be loads of fun
Or to have a badge authors could wear "I Write Shitty Books"
Now that's be classic

Jimms

This post has been edited by Jimms: 05 October 2008 - 12:32 PM

[Gem Windcaster]

@ alt146, the problem with reading SE and loving it is that you can't go back to reading crap.

[lord of tragedy]

gem thats the truest thing thats been said on this forum for a long time. to think i was looking forward to a feast for crows. shite.

[alt146]

That is true, but I see three levels. The SE level, then the good level, then crap. I dont mind reading any other good fantasy. People like GRRM, Scott Lynch, Joe Abercrombie etc. Not going to descent into the same levels of fandom, but they're readable

[opiate taylor]

I can't remember the titles, but the series about a magician by Sherri S. Tepper sucks the hind tit.

[opiate taylor]

Osric, on Oct 3 2008, 03:28 PM, said:

I loved the first few books of WoT, the last few were slow and a bit boring, so much potential lost. But I mean, the guy was dieing when he wrote them, can't really blame him can you?
RIP

Actually, he was only diagnosed a year or so before his death, so blaming his disease on the last few WoT books won't work. Let's face it, the man was just stringing the readers along so he could make more cash. True and sad, all at the same time.


Also, @ Lord of tragedy, I really have to disagree with you about Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun. It is one of the high points of fantasy in the last thirty years. Wolfe himself is a grandmaster, and deserves more attention than he receives. I have enjoyed everything he has yet written. The only other writer I can say that about is Jack Vance.

This post has been edited by opiate taylor: 05 October 2008 - 07:15 PM

[alt146]

I dunno. Books 7-9 are pretty week, but he really picked it up in 10 & 11. I think it's pretty difficult to keep a series coherent after all that time, especially if you're working towards a specific goal, and have had to stretch/merge books in order to have things happen at the right time. Just look at aSoIF - Dance with Dragons was supposed to come out two years ago, and most of the plotlines in the book were supposed to be in a feast for crows but had to be cut out cos the book was too long. I dont think every author is always only in it for the money. Someone like Ann Rice or David Eddings on the other hand..

[opiate taylor]

I agree that WoT had a great start. I really enjoyed the first three books in the series, and I was even then a Black Company fanatic. But it soon became apparent that Jordan was pulling a long con on the readers. It is easy to see that WoT could have been finished in 6 books or so. I mean, I have read much better stories than his that were a fraction of its size. Bigger (when it comes to books) is not always better.

[frookenhauer]

Not going to mention his name in case it makes anyone's eyes bleed, but if he'd just stooped after writing wizards first rule, or just died, the world would hate him less...And if Robin Hobb had died immediately after writing Royal assassin, I would have cried at her funeral, but all I do now is loathe the hag! I need help...

[Gem Windcaster]

Thanks, lord of tragedy

alt146, yeah, good fantasy is good.

[casrot]

I really hated The Name of the Wind by Patrick Rothfuss.

[The Tyrant Lizard]

One book I hated was the Knight (or maybe the Wizard Knight, not too sure what it was called) by Gene Wolfe. I forced myself through page after page of that, until I finally threw it in the bin about halfway through. I couldn't finish A Shout For the Dead by James Barclay or the later Raven Books for that matter.

I agree with what's already been said - reading GotM changed the way I regard all books now. It has become a bench mark for what I consider worthy of reading.

[lord of tragedy]

tried on of barclays books once. something about mercenaries and a spell. stopped aftera hundred pages. pulp of the lowest order.

[Use Of Weapons]

opiate taylor, on Oct 5 2008, 07:52 PM, said:

I can't remember the titles, but the series about a magician by Sherri S. Tepper sucks the hind tit.

Oh, which one? I'm a huge fan of Sheri Tepper, but I can't think of a series with a magician in it. Unless it's the Marianne series?

[Astra]

The Tyrant Lizard, on Oct 6 2008, 07:44 AM, said:

One book I hated was the Knight (or maybe the Wizard Knight, not too sure what it was called) by Gene Wolfe. I forced myself through page after page of that, until I finally threw it in the bin about halfway through.

If it was anything like The Shadow of the Torturer or The Claw of the Conciliator, I feel for you.

[opiate taylor]

Astra, on Oct 6 2008, 06:27 PM, said:

The Tyrant Lizard, on Oct 6 2008, 07:44 AM, said:

One book I hated was the Knight (or maybe the Wizard Knight, not too sure what it was called) by Gene Wolfe. I forced myself through page after page of that, until I finally threw it in the bin about halfway through.

If it was anything like The Shadow of the Torturer or The Claw of the Conciliator, I feel for you.

I can understand why someone might not care for The Knight, as it was my least favorite Wolfe, but the Book of the New Sun? What about The Shadow of the Torturer did you not like? How about The Claw of the Conciliator? I think they are both masterpieces. Also, Wolfe's The Fifth Head of Cerberus is absolutely jaw dropping it is so well-written. His novellas and short stories are great, as well: Seven American Nights, Forlesen, The Island of Doctor Death, Memorare, The Tree is my Hat, hell I could name a hundred really good ones. I just cannot understand why anyone would dislike Wolfe's work.

[Use Of Weapons]

Allow me to enlighten you: his style is the barrier for me, and for many others.

I admire his craft, but I can't read his prose. Something about it drives me away gibbering. I much prefer transparent prose, and if there's one thing Wolfe isn't, it's transparent.

[opiate taylor]

Thanks for the reply. I guess I can understand that. But I don't think it is necessarily a barrier for 'many others' as you say, as many people seem to like Wolfe's style. It's what I see him praised for the most. Wolfe's work is challenging, and I suppose you have to like mystery and ambiguity to enjoy it. Me, I enjoy both the more direct style, like Glen Cook, as well as stuff like Kafka, Wolfe, and Proust. But, everyone likes what they like.

[polishgenius]

Well, there's a reason why Wolfe isn't as popular as a lot of other writers, despite near universal acclaim from the people who have read him. It's not something he can work on, because the slow revealing of secrets is part of the appeal in the same way the lack of guidance in a massive world is the appeal of Erikson's. But it does mean a lack of casual readers.