[Bauchelain the Evil]

Quote

We know that DG was concurrent (roughly) with MoI, and yet there were no adverse affects to sorcery in 7 Cities. It just seems like way to large a coincidence for Pannion not to have been the fulcrum in the events, as opposed to the Crippled God.

Actually there were problems with warrens in DG, that's why the Wickans used spirits and stuff. But it was explained with the shapeshifters infestation of the warrens.

[RangerSG]

Also, even in MoI, the problems with the warrens get worse the closer the Allied army gets to Coral.

[Epiph]

Bauchelain the Evil, on Feb 17 2009, 06:56 AM, said:

Actually there were problems with warrens in DG, that's why the Wickans used spirits and stuff. But it was explained with the shapeshifters infestation of the warrens.

I thought that was because of the Path of Hands.

[Sinisdar Toste]

Epiph, on Feb 23 2009, 04:02 PM, said:

Bauchelain the Evil, on Feb 17 2009, 06:56 AM, said:

Actually there were problems with warrens in DG, that's why the Wickans used spirits and stuff. But it was explained with the shapeshifters infestation of the warrens.

I thought that was because of the Path of Hands.

one and the same friend.

[Epiph]

Apparently I can't actually read.

[Sinisdar Toste]

Epiph, on Feb 24 2009, 04:22 PM, said:

Apparently I can't actually read.

haha no worries epiph, there are adult education programs for that these days

[Epiph]

Sinisdar Toste, on Feb 24 2009, 04:31 PM, said:

Epiph, on Feb 24 2009, 04:22 PM, said:

Apparently I can't actually read.

haha no worries epiph, there are adult education programs for that these days

...I have a BA in English Literature. I'm applying to Creative Writing MFA programs. THIS IS A PROBLEM.

[Ain't_It_Just_]

There there...

Say we get towards the start of Burn's death...would the warrens get poisoned again and the world start shrivelling up?

[Steel General]

Didn't QB's deal with that Jaghut (can't remember the name or which book) work to begin lessening the CG's effects on Burn?

[Lisheo]

Steel General, on Mar 5 2009, 08:02 PM, said:

Didn't QB's deal with that Jaghut (can't remember the name or which book) work to begin lessening the CG's effects on Burn?

As I recall, it slowed them down and helped her out with here "fever", but didn't actually reverse the effect of the CG on Burn.

[TeddyGraham]

I hope karsa kills Kallor....for no other reason then it will be cool. I always love a clash with karsa.....but knowing erikson, he will likely never kill of Kallor, just to frustrate the readers lol

[RangerSG]

I'd love to see Karsa (or anyone PLEASE!) kill Kallor. But that doesn't qualify as killing a god. I'm going to guess that it's going to take a combination of Karsa, Quick Ben, Kruppe, and the Redeemer to deal with the CG.

Karsa and QB to have enough power to be able to contain him, Kruppe and QB to come up with a plan to do so. And the Redeemer to soak up the mess after they do so. I'd be upset if it was as simple as the Redeemer "making the waters clean" after all this. But I do think that has to have some part in dealing with him.

[Grief]

Heh, I'm almost the opposite.
I would like anyone to kill Karsa.

Also, Karsa, QB, Kruppe, and the Redeemer don't have close to the raw power to take down the CG. They'd need something stronger behind them, to lend strength to whatever sneaky plan they had.

Karsa and QB really don't have close to the power needed to contain the CG. The chaining took a big bunch of powerhouses. Karsa is resistant, but not that resistant. And QB isn't as powerful as a god, or even some mortal mages, never mind the CG.

[RangerSG]

I certainly didn't mean that they would be the *only* ones involved in the final convergence. But I think they're the ones who'll be there at the end. Also, I think a lot of the issue in the prior chainings is two-fold:

1) The Elder Gods were not entirely in agreement with each other on what to do with the CG. Nor did they really trust each other to deal with him finally. The gods don't want their apple carts upset. That is always their first concern. Any concert in their actions exists only so far as it takes to protect their interests. Hence why they protested against Paran "blessing" the House of Chains in the first place. From any mortal's perspective however, it's exactly what he has to do as Master of the Deck. Gods will always in Malazworld, look out for themselves first.

2) The CG being "inside the game" now, to me, makes a big difference. We've seen gods killed and killed easily once they step into the mortal sphere. Poliel for one that I can mention here without tagging. Once the CG is dragged out of his pocket warren into the mortal realm, he's vulnerable to mortals. Now, none of the gods want him there for fear of the damage he'd do to them while he's unleashed. Also I think there's considerable fear on their part because they know their vulnerability once they step onto that plane as well. Now Poliel was killed by a good bit of subterfuge. But then, that's the game of QB and Kruppe in any case.

To be fair, I should probably include Shadowthrone and Cotillion in my list as well, as they've opposed the CG from virtually the beginning. Esp. Cotillion, who legitimately still cares about what happens to Wu. Shadowthrone? I honestly think if the CG could promise him a fully restored Shadow Realm, he'd take the deal and look away. But I suspect ST sees CG as standing in the way of making such a restoration.

[Grief]

1. We know the CG is very very hard to kill. Possibly impossible, judging by edgewalkers comments in Bonehunters. If it could be done by any elder god, I reckon at least one of them would've snuck in and done so by now. Or Rake, osserc, etc.
2. He's inside the game, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's easy to kill. He can be inside the game without visiting the mortal realm. Also, Poliel isn't elder. Elders well, they don't die easily. The most one can really do is deal with them for a very long period of time. Dor example, Draconus. Only possible exception is Tiam, yet I reckon Rake hasn't killed her permanently. I reckon he just somehow dealt with her for a massively long amount of time.

[Imperium Corruo]

Ok Having just been able to finish the book and having read this thread. One thought sticks out to me. I don't think Karsa is going to kill the Crippled God simply because he already had the opportunity and he didn't go for it. Now I realize the argument could be that he was in TCG's base of power and so could not kill him, yet even so Karsa show's no inclination or desire to kill the Crippled God. This knowing all the trouble he had caused Rulad and his designs on Karsa's own future. For this reason, I don't feel it will be The Crippled God, that Karsa revisits with murderous intent. He's moving on to greener pastures... as it were.

I'm really not going to bother trying to guess who and I don't think it would Kallor or the Darujistan Tyrant either.

[RangerSG]

Imperium,

Karsa vowed before he *would* kill the CG...after he saw him freed (House of Chains). I doubt Karsa forgot the content of his vows, or their context. IMHO, He didn't have a go at the CG because it wasn't time yet. Certainly not because he doesn't want the CG killed. He's said he does.

Grief,

I don't think the elders *would* sneak in and kill him. If that could be done, then anyone could sneak on on *them* and return the favor. Again, I think that the inaction of the elders is as much to do with self-preservation and moral cowardice as it is opportunity. They will always take the road that involves the least risk to their own hides. Also, I don't think it's nearly as easy to do in his pocket warren as it would be in the "prime." Killing him in the seat of his power would be infinitely more difficult. The elders will always play it safe, it's what they do. Same with almost all the other gods we've seen with the exceptions of ST, the Rope, and possibly Fener.

[Imperium Corruo]

RangerSG, on Mar 26 2009, 07:28 AM, said:

Imperium,

Karsa vowed before he *would* kill the CG...after he saw him freed (House of Chains). I doubt Karsa forgot the content of his vows, or their context. IMHO, He didn't have a go at the CG because it wasn't time yet. Certainly not because he doesn't want the CG killed. He's said he does.

Can someone post the quote where Karsa vows to kill the CG? Or direct me to where I can find it on here? I do kinda remember him making the vow, but I don't remember the details.

[Aptorian]

You can not kill the Crippled God. It's as easy as that. It's been said before but I'll just point it out again. The CG is killing the world and if he could be killed it would have been done long ago. It's just not possible. Otherwise you can be sure an EG or Rake/Brood would have ended the problem.

If Karsa had made a chop for the CG maybe the sword would have been stopped or broken, maybe the CGs physical form would have taken damage, but the spirit would have remained, maybe a donkey would have showed up out of nowhere and killed Karsa, but no matter what, you can not kill the CG in any normal way.

[RangerSG]

Aptorian, on Mar 30 2009, 01:34 PM, said:

You can not kill the Crippled God. It's as easy as that. It's been said before but I'll just point it out again. The CG is killing the world and if he could be killed it would have been done long ago. It's just not possible. Otherwise you can be sure an EG or Rake/Brood would have ended the problem.

If Karsa had made a chop for the CG maybe the sword would have been stopped or broken, maybe the CGs physical form would have taken damage, but the spirit would have remained, maybe a donkey would have showed up out of nowhere and killed Karsa, but no matter what, you can not kill the CG in any normal way.

I don't think I've suggested killing him "in a normal way." I'm just saying I suspect there's more to the CG not being dead yet than, "OMG he's just so powerful!" I think there's a level of moral cowardice and/or lack of consensus on the elders, so chaining him was the best solution they could arrive at mutually. I also think being inside the game now makes a difference.