[worry]

I think I get you as much as possible. It's kinda like visual mnemonic devices, but for the purpose of thought language rather than memory (ie you're not relying on an actual memory of a shattered clock associated with a particular crash....a shattered clock is the word for 'crash').

[Loki]

 worry, on 10 May 2016 - 08:13 AM, said:

I think I get you as much as possible. It's kinda like visual mnemonic devices, but for the purpose of thought language rather than memory (ie you're not relying on an actual memory of a shattered clock associated with a particular crash....a shattered clock is the word for 'crash').

That's actually a good way to describe it. It's not 100% accurate since like you said, it's not about memorising things, but it's a good starting point for trying to explain it.

Also, shattering clock = late. A shattered clock = catastrophic failure and/or depressing finality.

[HiddenOne]

This is interesting, I've never known anyone to describe thought processes quite like this.

[QuickTidal]

2 year wedding anniversary with my wife. I'm about as lucky as they come.

[Tiste Simeon]

 QuickTidal, on 10 May 2016 - 01:18 PM, said:

2 year wedding anniversary with my wife. I'm about as lucky as they come.

And you've still not shared wedding pictures with your closest friends, us!!

[QuickTidal]

 Tiste Simeon, on 10 May 2016 - 02:25 PM, said:

 QuickTidal, on 10 May 2016 - 01:18 PM, said:

2 year wedding anniversary with my wife. I'm about as lucky as they come.

And you've still not shared wedding pictures with your closest friends, us!!

Ha, this is true! I'll ask the missus.

[Whisperzzzzzzz]

 Loki, on 10 May 2016 - 07:50 AM, said:

 worry, on 10 May 2016 - 07:05 AM, said:

That is equally interesting. Is there a name for that?

I have no idea. If it has a name, I haven't been able to find it. I just know that visual thinking/picture thinking isn't correct.

It's hard to explain but I'll try to give examples.

Hands pressed together flat with fingers pointing up, highway overpass, rocks of salt. - Please pass the salt. (An easy one to explain)

Woman standing in kitchen holding a knife, grandfather clock - Heirloom necklace. (Not so easy to explain)

Small white elephant drowning in a yellow storming sea - I'm feeling small bursts of anger (small white) caused by a bigger issue (elephant) that is making me feel anxious (yellow) and it's overwhelming (storming sea) and I'm not sure I can handle much more of it (drowning). (Headache causing)

Sometimes my associations are the same as other people and sometimes they are thoroughly different. When I am trying to describe something, especially an abstract concept, it is basically beyond me because a black triangle (a sense of knowing based on what we don't know but do) doesn't mean to other people what it means to me and I don't know how to put it into normal words . And common associations with certain things like colours or symbols don't apply. For instance, yellow is never a good or happy colour. Snowflakes never represent snow or the cold. It's heavily based on symbolism but at the same time if you say 'imagine a car' I see our car. But if you say "I was late because there was a crash on the M1' I see a shattering clock, yellow car, generic highway, M1. So, if you said to me 'shattering clock, yellow car, generic highway, M1' I would be all 'Oh, there was a crash on the M1 so you're late'. But if you said 'shattering clock, white car,generic highway, M1' it would mean you were late because the M1 was full of bad drivers.

I also never see words. I see symbols and numbers and letters used as symbols or numbers. But any time there are words in my thought (so a picture that has words in it, like an open book) the words are just fanciful scribbles. I can't see 'forest' or 'Seven' in my head. I can see Roman numerals though. Certain numbers also have matching colours and/or the colour changes the thought. So, IV black font white background is four. IV in the middle of a blank book page is fourth. IV on a clock face is four o'clock. But IV white with a black background means four in relation to a count down. 11 black on white background means eleven. But 11 on a yellow background means uncomfortable.


I'm not sure if I'm explaining this well...

This is very intriguing! I bet there's a reddit community for it

[amphibian]

This is similar to memory palaces and synesthesia.

[Tiste Simeon]

I went to the creative writing group again and I feel inspired to actually do some writing. Nearly 1000 words tonight, chuffed with that.

EDIT: 1000, not 100...

This post has been edited by Tiste Simeon: 10 May 2016 - 09:49 PM

[Puck]

Eurovision. Decided to go the whole route this year with watching both semifinals and finals and gossip and stuff (usually I'd forget and only realize it's on when the finals are on TV). It's damn entertaining

[worry]

Eurovision is every single year? I thought it was like the Olympics.

@Loki: If you don't mind one more question, what is reading (fiction, non-fiction, the board, whatever) like for you?

[Andorion]

 worry, on 10 May 2016 - 05:23 AM, said:

One of the nerds who helped develop Firefox figured out recently he has Aphantasia, the inability to visualize anything ever, and wrote about his experience: https://www.facebook...56834777480504/

 Loki, on 10 May 2016 - 06:53 AM, said:

 worry, on 10 May 2016 - 05:23 AM, said:

One of the nerds who helped develop Firefox figured out recently he has Aphantasia, the inability to visualize anything ever, and wrote about his experience: https://www.facebook...56834777480504/

That's an interesting read. I have the opposite problem in that every word, thought, concept etc is a picture. I'm constantly converting pictures to words. It's one of the reasons I hate when people ask how I am feeling. I usually just say 'fine' because 'small white elephant drowning in yellow storming sea' tends to take too much effort to put into 'normal' words.

 Loki, on 10 May 2016 - 07:50 AM, said:

 worry, on 10 May 2016 - 07:05 AM, said:

That is equally interesting. Is there a name for that?

I have no idea. If it has a name, I haven't been able to find it. I just know that visual thinking/picture thinking isn't correct.

It's hard to explain but I'll try to give examples.

Hands pressed together flat with fingers pointing up, highway overpass, rocks of salt. - Please pass the salt. (An easy one to explain)

Woman standing in kitchen holding a knife, grandfather clock - Heirloom necklace. (Not so easy to explain)

Small white elephant drowning in a yellow storming sea - I'm feeling small bursts of anger (small white) caused by a bigger issue (elephant) that is making me feel anxious (yellow) and it's overwhelming (storming sea) and I'm not sure I can handle much more of it (drowning). (Headache causing)

Sometimes my associations are the same as other people and sometimes they are thoroughly different. When I am trying to describe something, especially an abstract concept, it is basically beyond me because a black triangle (a sense of knowing based on what we don't know but do) doesn't mean to other people what it means to me and I don't know how to put it into normal words . And common associations with certain things like colours or symbols don't apply. For instance, yellow is never a good or happy colour. Snowflakes never represent snow or the cold. It's heavily based on symbolism but at the same time if you say 'imagine a car' I see our car. But if you say "I was late because there was a crash on the M1' I see a shattering clock, yellow car, generic highway, M1. So, if you said to me 'shattering clock, yellow car, generic highway, M1' I would be all 'Oh, there was a crash on the M1 so you're late'. But if you said 'shattering clock, white car,generic highway, M1' it would mean you were late because the M1 was full of bad drivers.

I also never see words. I see symbols and numbers and letters used as symbols or numbers. But any time there are words in my thought (so a picture that has words in it, like an open book) the words are just fanciful scribbles. I can't see 'forest' or 'Seven' in my head. I can see Roman numerals though. Certain numbers also have matching colours and/or the colour changes the thought. So, IV black font white background is four. IV in the middle of a blank book page is fourth. IV on a clock face is four o'clock. But IV white with a black background means four in relation to a count down. 11 black on white background means eleven. But 11 on a yellow background means uncomfortable.


I'm not sure if I'm explaining this well...

Oh damn, how did I miss this?

How does that FB guy remember anything? My entire memory is image based!

I think I get where Loki is coming from. I remember things as symbolic images all the time. I mean my mental image for a theory was once a dented circle with a hole in the centre.

I visualize everything. Sometimes literally, sometimes symbolically.

[Loki]

 worry, on 10 May 2016 - 10:23 PM, said:

@Loki: If you don't mind one more question, what is reading (fiction, non-fiction, the board, whatever) like for you?

I've been trying to figure out how to answer this for hours. It's definitely easier for me to read something than to write or describe something.


The first time I read a fiction book it involves a lot of individual construction. I have to compartmentalise individual aspects (individual characters, environments, individual aspects of an environment, etc) and construct them all individually before combining them together to form the scene. So the first time a character is introduced I have to remove them from the rest of the scene and then develop them as I learn more about them until they retrospectively get put back (this isn't making much sense ). I then use that initial construct in all further interactions occasionally updating as necessary. The less descriptive words and the less emotion based words an author uses the easier it for me to read (in fact, there is a point where I just can't read a book if it has too many feeling or descriptive words). It's why I love Erikson. He writes pragmatically which makes it easier for me. But that said, my constructs aren't always correct because there are fundamental connections I make differently. For instance, I usually don't know what colour a characters skin is unless it's been described using racial terms ie African American or the word to describe the colour of their skin isn't a colour that is associated with concepts. For instance, I only realised that Quick Ben had black skin when I saw the artwork for the Subpress GotM. Shiara had to explain to me that the picture was correct. I had constructed him as black but not as black skinned - his essence was black but I never made the connection of 'dark' and 'black' to be literal. Black almost never translates as a colour. So, as I read an every forming, changing image is created but probably not like you would make. When you think of Quick Ben you might imagine a man. What I see is black swirls against a black background and several swirling pools of ash. That's Quick Ben. Do you know how the eqyptians would enclose names in a circle? When I imagine Quick Ben in relation to other things or in a certain place I do that. (I have attached a terrible paint rendition of Quick Ben standing next to a tree). However, I can take my Quick Ben and translate him into a more recognisable human form but I do that by finding a similar already existing character in a movie and then say 'Quick Ben looks like them, sorta' but it's again based on not their appearance but their presence. In fact, I very rarely associate anything by appearance or looks. It's always based on presence which is why I sometimes say two people look alike and then Matador will point out that one is an asian male with black hair and the other is a white woman with blonde hair.

The more times I read a book the easier it is. I tend to find rereads more enjoyable because there is less mental exhaustion involved. It's very common for me to have to read out a sentence to Matador that just makes no sense to me whatsoever. They usual have to do with abstract concepts or an expectation on the part of the author that what they are referring to is a universal truth that is understood by everyone. I also fail very badly at recognising and/or understanding double entendres, euphemisms, etc. I also hate subtext with a passion.

Non-fiction depends on the subject. If it is just factual and 'a + b = c' then I imagine it's the same as most people (it just auto translate into thoughts). But if it also discusses the philosophical aspects or involves social narrative etc then it becomes more difficult.

I really like reading but I don't read a lot because there aren't many authors who write in a way that works well for me. But when I do find one I stick to them. Poetry is usually a nightmare for me but Poe, Tennyson, and Banjo Patterson manage to make sense to me and the abstract things they refer to, they do it in a way that matches my own thinking (at least far more than other writers), so I absolutely love reading them. Lovecraft (which I only read recently) also has a brilliant way of describing the unnameable that is actually easy for me to connect with too. In fact, most of the stories I enjoy or have an easier time of reading are from older writers, like Verne, because they were more of a scientific mind than an artistic one, if you know what I mean.

I think the reason I enjoy comics so much is that most of the story is told in pictures.

I don't know if that really gives you an idea or not.

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This post has been edited by Loki: 11 May 2016 - 04:19 AM

[amphibian]

Does your kid think the same way?

[worry]

This is all completely engrossing. You've done a fine job describing the truth as it exists for you. I am definitely gonna read it a few more times, but I assure you it's not for any lack on your part. I am a fairly dim bulb, on top of the natural gulf between two different minds.

I am starting to see why Toll the Hounds was your series low though! Makes perfect sense in this light.

[Loki]

 amphibian, on 11 May 2016 - 04:48 AM, said:

Does your kid think the same way?

Ripley is only (almost) three so we don't know but it's something we're keeping in mind.

My youngest brother does though. He is twelve years younger than me and one night about 18 months ago, after he moved in with us, he was commenting on how it's cool living with someone who actual gets what he is saying most of the time (meaning me). Matador mentioned how half the time when we talk we don't even make sense. My brother said it's probably because he thinks in pictures so sometimes things make sense to him but not other people and I was like 'Me too!' We spent a good two or three hours comparing thought processes and while we didn't have exactly the same connotations with everything, we both definitely think everything in pictures. A lot of our associations are scarily similar, in fact. Matador often jokes that my brother is just a younger, male version of myself. But since living with us and having people who understand him (after over a decade Matador is pretty skilled at being a thought translator) he has almost completely shaken off his social anxiety and is only a fraction of the recluse he used to be. I think he was finding it harder to relate than I do so it had become a 'something is wrong with me' thing and knowing that it's not just him helps.

Edit: It also means we are really good at picking each other's cards when we play Dixit.

 worry, on 11 May 2016 - 04:52 AM, said:

This is all completely engrossing. You've done a fine job describing the truth as it exists for you. I am definitely gonna read it a few more times, but I assure you it's not for any lack on your part. I am a fairly dim bulb, on top of the natural gulf between two different minds.

I am starting to see why Toll the Hounds was your series low though! Makes perfect sense in this light.

Actually, it's Reaper's Gale I haven't made it through. After the third attempt, Wry suggested that I just leave it there because he didn't think it would get any better for me. I tend to view the first four books as the first series of Malazan books and the rest as a second series that I started but didn't finish.

This post has been edited by Loki: 11 May 2016 - 06:01 AM

[Tiste Simeon]

 Puck, on 10 May 2016 - 10:17 PM, said:

Eurovision. Decided to go the whole route this year with watching both semifinals and finals and gossip and stuff (usually I'd forget and only realize it's on when the finals are on TV). It's damn entertaining

Sadly I'm missing it this year due to friends rather selfishly having their wedding on the same day...

[Tsundoku]

 QuickTidal, on 10 May 2016 - 02:47 PM, said:

 Tiste Simeon, on 10 May 2016 - 02:25 PM, said:

 QuickTidal, on 10 May 2016 - 01:18 PM, said:

2 year wedding anniversary with my wife. I'm about as lucky as they come.

And you've still not shared wedding pictures with your closest friends, us!!

Ha, this is true! I'll ask the missus.

Get used to that. It will become your default action one day. When you realise this, you will die just a little (more) inside.

This post has been edited by Tsundoku: 11 May 2016 - 07:15 AM

[Puck]

 worry, on 10 May 2016 - 10:23 PM, said:

Eurovision is every single year? I thought it was like the Olympics.

No, it's a yearly thing. Every year in May, for one week, Europe goes..

 Tiste Simeon, on 11 May 2016 - 07:07 AM, said:

 Puck, on 10 May 2016 - 10:17 PM, said:

Eurovision. Decided to go the whole route this year with watching both semifinals and finals and gossip and stuff (usually I'd forget and only realize it's on when the finals are on TV). It's damn entertaining

Sadly I'm missing it this year due to friends rather selfishly having their wedding on the same day...

Selfish sods!

[Andorion]

 Tiste Simeon, on 11 May 2016 - 07:07 AM, said:

 Puck, on 10 May 2016 - 10:17 PM, said:

Eurovision. Decided to go the whole route this year with watching both semifinals and finals and gossip and stuff (usually I'd forget and only realize it's on when the finals are on TV). It's damn entertaining

Sadly I'm missing it this year due to friends rather selfishly having their wedding on the same day...

Dammit Martial scored two goals! And still a loss! This bloody bloody season