[Battalion]

Just finished and I've got a question, please.

What was the point in Rake sending Spinnock to fight Kallor? All he was doing was delaying him, right? So was it to ensure that he never met and crossed swords with Traveller, or Karsa, maybe, or Rake himself? I assume it was something to do with the fact that Rake knew he was ging to be killed and thus, his sword would be free for someone to take. Kallor would be a very bad person to hold the weapon, I guess, so was that it?

[tiam]

I think its a bit of an inconsistency. In MOI WJ death causes Rake to announce that kallor has earned Dragnipur. yet in this hes spared by Spinnock, who although couldnt have won tells kallor that he was only told to delay him by Rake.

Anyway in answer to your question it seems that rake wa just covering his back. He had brood covering the city and had Spinnock stopping Kallor

[Paran]

Mercy for Kallor. It seems Rake truly understood the curse placed on Kallr and understood the complications that would be faced by Kallor and curse going into Dragnipur, and sparing Kallor having to choose to take on Rake... that curse is one really painful, horrible thing.

[Optimus Prime]

I took it as yes, Spinnock was there to prevent Kallor from "seizing the moment", but also some more reasons we may not know of yet. Wasn't Kallor going to take the throne there as well? Rake knew Kallor cannot control his ambitions and had to have a safety valve.

[Zanth13]

From what we have seen Rake is the closest character we have to being Omnipotent... It could be several things,

A. Didnt have the time to deal with Kallor himself, so he knew him being finished wasnt going to happen...(this doesnt fit with the compassion that Spinnock was talking about so I dont like it)

B. He truly did forgive Kallor or something along those lines...(I doubt that is the whole reason)

C. A combination of factors, A. He now Knew Dragonspur would no longer be around so taking him out of the game that way would be impossible and pointless, B. mixed with the fact that Rake knew he would be out of the game and so a wanted to make sure a wild card like Kallor (mentioned several times that no one can predict him) was not able to influence events with Rake dead. and C. rake has been around long enough to know that revenge is pretty much pointless and he probably knows that Kallor will come in handy at some point in time so wants to keep him alive, at least for a little bit.

ROTCG Spoiler

Spoiler

Plus from what we learn from ROTCG Traveller might decide now was the time to avenge Ereko, cuz we know he is not above seeking Revenge, Rake would have plenty of reason to keep those to apart, especially since he was using Dassem for his own purposes.

and now that I think of it, I think my reason in the spoiler box is perhaps the most logical reason behind Rake sending Spinnock into Kallors path, I am pleased with myself.

[Blacksox]

Zanth13;366682 said:

From what we have seen Rake is the closest character we have to being Omnipotent... It could be several things,

A. Didnt have the time to deal with Kallor himself, so he knew him being finished wasnt going to happen...(this doesnt fit with the compassion that Spinnock was talking about so I dont like it)

B. He truly did forgive Kallor or something along those lines...(I doubt that is the whole reason)

C. A combination of factors, A. He now Knew Dragonspur would no longer be around so taking him out of the game that way would be impossible and pointless, B. mixed with the fact that Rake knew he would be out of the game and so a wanted to make sure a wild card like Kallor (mentioned several times that no one can predict him) was not able to influence events with Rake dead. and C. rake has been around long enough to know that revenge is pretty much pointless and he probably knows that Kallor will come in handy at some point in time so wants to keep him alive, at least for a little bit.

ROTCG Spoiler

Spoiler

Plus from what we learn from ROTCG Traveller might decide now was the time to avenge Ereko, cuz we know he is not above seeking Revenge, Rake would have plenty of reason to keep those to apart, especially since he was using Dassem for his own purposes.

and now that I think of it, I think my reason in the spoiler box is perhaps the most logical reason behind Rake sending Spinnock into Kallors path, I am pleased with myself.

I think the reason Rake wanted to delay Kallor at that point was to delay Kallor and Karsa meeting each other for a while. i will list my reasons below.

1. In reference to your spoiler above. Karsa may take greater exception to what happened than Traveller ever could. That is a reckoning just waiting to happen.

2. There is no two characters in the entire series that have more diametricaly oppossed viewpoints and ambitions. They are two natural forces for two totally opposite viewpoints one is obssessed with kingdoms and dominion over other while the other wants to destroy all the things it represent.

I think when these two meet sparks are going to fly. Wonder if Karsa will try to free Kallor of his curse?

[Dragnipurake]

not to sound offensive but what is the need for spoilers when people who havent read ROTCG will not read them and people who did read that book will not be able to talk about the spoilers in this sub-forum (ideally, of course).

anyway, having no knowledge of ROTCG (yet to be released, except for the mega-expensive limited version), based on TTH, i think Kallor's views about empires may not clash with Karsa's. Karsa wants to destroy existing empires/cities while Kallor builds them and then destroys them.

[HoosierDaddy]

Dragnipurake;367149 said:

anyway, having no knowledge of ROTCG (yet to be released, except for the mega-expensive limited version), based on TTH, i think Kallor's views about empires may not clash with Karsa's. Karsa wants to destroy existing empires/cities while Kallor builds them and then destroys them.

Kallor doesn't regularly destroy them. They just seem to fall apart all of their own accord eventually.

Karsa, in my opinion, would be swinging blows with Kallor 5 minutes after meeting him. Kallor is an arrogant bastard. Is that arrogance earned? Probably. But, nonetheless, one thing Karsa can't stand are self-assured jerks. Kallor is one of the biggest self-assured jerks in all of Wu.

[Battalion]

Kallor would murder Karsa.

Anyway, I think that they both voiced that they would like to see the utter destruction of civilisation, in very similar terms. Sorry Blacksocks, but I can see the two teaming up, despite the fact that they might not get along.

[Optimus Prime]

I think Kallor would take Karsa as well.

I could see them teaming up, which would be quite terrifying.

[fafner]

or rake just hate to put people in his sword we know that Apsal’ara only got there because she tried to stab him.

[BeLeG]

I always wondered at Rake's words to Kallor

"What else,Kallor, keeps my blade from your black heart ...if not sentiment?"

(one of Rake's best lines)

[fafner]

the only people that i know that he actively put in his sword where the folk that the hated/dislike are draconus(for putting MD in the sword) the mages of pale (betrayal/ broken there words) and those crazy women in MI (for being sick and crazy). the rest of the time he use it as a weapon in self defence

[Grief]

Paran;366645 said:

... that curse is one really painful, horrible thing.

"Elder Gods, it has been said, embody a host of unpleasantaries"

It seems that rake tries to acoid using the sword, except when he utterly has to, for self defence, or on those who deserve it. Kallor and Karsa would be interesting, and they both seem to be about as good swordsmen. Kallor is good, but as brood says, not good enough to fight Rake, Greymane etc. Karsa also is nowhere near as good as Rake, Ultor etc.

Theory: Kallor finds some way(perhaps through the CG) to break his curse, and ascends unto godhood(perhaps as King of the house of chains). This is why he must go to darujhistan. Karsa also has to be in darujhistan. Why? To kill a god. Thus, they clash, and calm the FA shows up for wehatever reason.

Personally if they fought id be inclined to think that Kallor would win. Just.

[Ammanas]

Grief;368930 said:

"Elder Gods, it has been said, embody a host of unpleasantaries"

It seems that rake tries to acoid using the sword, except when he utterly has to, for self defence, or on those who deserve it. Kallor and Karsa would be interesting, and they both seem to be about as good swordsmen. Kallor is good, but as brood says, not good enough to fight Rake, Greymane etc. Karsa also is nowhere near as good as Rake, Ultor etc.

Theory: Kallor finds some way(perhaps through the CG) to break his curse, and ascends unto godhood(perhaps as King of the house of chains). This is why he must go to darujhistan. Karsa also has to be in darujhistan. Why? To kill a god. Thus, they clash, and calm the FA shows up for wehatever reason.

Personally if they fought id be inclined to think that Kallor would win. Just.

I was rereading BH and the QoD basically said Hood prolonged the curse by causing WJ to lose the fight. Also, after the Kallor-Durav fight, Kallor flat-out said Durav "had chances to wound" him and wanted to know why he didn't.

Here's my crazy two-part theory-- 1)Kallor wants to die altho he won't admit or his self preservation prevents it. 2) Kallor wants to end civilization, so does Karsa. They're both allegedly in the House of Chains and so they're gonna clash. My money is on Karsa.

[Gem Windcaster]

Kallor vs Karsa - now there's an interesing angle. I wonder if they would even bother with each other?

Btw, I think it's pretty clear that Rake was trying to make everybody a favour, including Kallor himself, by keeping him away.

[Grief]

Yeah, Rake really was doing everyone a favour.

He did whatever he did for Hood(possibly involving his dealings with Paran/ST)
He stopped Kallor coming, meaning he was safe and not having to make hard choices.
He didnt kill Dassem.

The only people that it didnt go well for were those that he had known longest(probably). His andii.

[Tapper]

Mother Dark returning to them would only be possible if Darkness wasn't devoured - he saved her and thus them. Plus, with her back, well... the sadness and purposelessness of the Andii can end, no?