[blackzoid]

Rake makes the point that the Redeemer isn't all great. That he acts like a "sponge" taking away everyone's pain and requiring nothing from them in the area of redemption. Nothing in the area of positive self-improvement.

[caladanbrood]

Yeah, it was mentioned a number of times that he was far too vulnerable, and there was no value in a god who forgave unconditionally. He needed to establish some ground rules;)

[Abyss]

reposted from the 'Wafle' thread...

Abyss;354666 said:

This was, without a doubt, the most cerebral of the MBFs so far. SE, via various voices, quite literally thinks about weighty issues. I had an initial 'oh no' reaction, but then i started reading them closely. The thing is, TtH really does not read as well in the omg omg barrel thru get to tend post on the forum how cool was that way that most of the previous books do. You can, quite easily, skim thru the various pontifications and not lose any of the impact of the last 200 pages or so, because that is quite possibly some of the best fantasy action dram ever written, BUT, i suggest that on the reread, sloooooow down. There's a reason it took me longer than usual to get back to the forum and that's because this book required a slower pace from me. I tried to put the context of what the author was saying into what the characteres were doing. It's not easy - i'm looking fwd to the reread to try a little harder, but the point is this:

If you've come this far, through seven previous doorstopper novels, because you think this author is great and awesome and worth your time, than maybe the author has something interesting to say beyond stick sword a into body part b and describe splatter fx... not in the condescending and pretentious way certain other authors who shall remain nameless (hint: one makes me bleed from my eyes) do, but in a genuine hey, here's what i think and maybe while you're reading, chew on it a little sort of way.

I could be wrong, but at least for moi, TtH works on many levels because oif the differences from previous books, not in spite of them.


- Abyss, ummmm, not that there's anything wrong with a lot of sword-into-body-part-equals-bloodsplatter tho...

- Abyss, because Deep Thoughts should be shared...

[HoosierDaddy]

caladanbrood;356008 said:

Yeah, it was mentioned a number of times that he was far too vulnerable, and there was no value in a god who forgave unconditionally. He needed to establish some ground rules;)

I believe this is Seerdomin's role now.

[Terez]

New House in the making?

[Abyss]

HoosierDaddy;356290 said:

I believe this is Seerdomin's role now.

Well it was before he died the second time. The description when Salind tosses him aside was bordering on cole slaw (soul slaw?).

I'm not sure, because SE has fooled us before, but i suspect when a character dies in the soul-already-left-the-body-then-died-AGAIN sense as Seerdomin did, that there's no coming back.

As for Terez' new house suggestion, that's an interesting point = there's an obvious link that would see Redeemer allied to HHDark. House of War
doesn't seem to fit despite the Fener link. He could always remain unaligned tho'.


- Abyss, died once but got better.

[Tremolo]

It would be a more universal faith if The Redeemer stayed unaligned.

[Dolorous Menhir]

The Redeemer just needs one rule:

"I will forgive everyone except Mallick Rel."

[Terez]

Speaking of High House Dark....is Aranatha going to remain possessed by Mother Dark? If so, then I'm confused as to why Nimander leads when the goddess herself is there in the flesh...and I'm also confused as to why she is so limited. Probably because I missed some vital info...

[Tremolo]

Dolorous Menhir;356315 said:

The Redeemer just needs one rule:

"I will forgive everyone except Mallick Rel."

And what if Rel ends up being portrayed as a misunderstood man and really just a nice guy. Like Erikson did to Kallor in TtH? And to Lasseen in Deadhouse Gates(?)?

[Tarr]

Dolorous Menhir;356315 said:

The Redeemer just needs one rule:

"I will forgive everyone except Mallick Rel."

add Clip to the list as he's definatly not a misunderstood man and really just a nice guy, he a complete Bast*rd!, even possesed by an evil god he was only marginnaly worse.

[vaiski]

Terez;356318 said:

Speaking of High House Dark....is Aranatha going to remain possessed by Mother Dark? If so, then I'm confused as to why Nimander leads when the goddess herself is there in the flesh...and I'm also confused as to why she is so limited. Probably because I missed some vital info...

In the epilogue, Nimander (talking with Skintick) wishes that MD had left Aranatha to them.
So whatever little was left of Aranatha is gone now. As for her limitations, according to Skintick Aranatha was a simpleton so that perhaps played a part, and MD couldn't really reach through from wherever she was while Gate of Darkness was inside Dragnipur.

[Abyss]

The entire dynamic in Black Coral will be interesting, with Nimander moving into a leadership role, Clip (minus a finger) shit-disturbing and potentially Mommy D hanging around.

Plus it seems the gate to KG is now located in the throne room - who knows how that plays out - will Chaos be assaulting the city directly? Will the Liosan?


As for the Redeemer, it's still unclear.. he doesn't judge, he doesn't forgive... he 'redeems'... what exactly does that mean? We saw Monkrat act all redeemed because Spindle made him save the kids who were otherwise going to be raped, killed and used as kaelyk fodder. We saw the Dying God die because it belived that the Redeemer summonder it to redeem it, and in theory this links to the redemption of the Tiste Andii via KG, the Gate and Mommy D all being manifest in Black Coral now... my head hurts.


- Abyss, with thinkymeatz pain now...

[Pig Iron]

Cross-posting FTW:

Wonder what a Freudian would have to say about Rake destroying his "sword" to get back to a symbiosis with his formerly absent mother. Actually, the Gate in the wagon was a hole to the dark ...

[Terez]

He didn't destroy his sword, though....Brood did. And he thought about Burn smiling when he did it.

Terez, thinks there was some serious sexual tension between Rake and Brood in MOI...

[Abyss]

Pig Iron;356331 said:

Cross-posting FTW:

Wonder what a Freudian would have to say about Rake destroying his "sword" to get back to a symbiosis with his formerly absent mother. Actually, the Gate in the wagon was a hole to the dark ...

Pervert!

have rep

- Abyss, ...what?

[Tremolo]

Abyss;356330 said:

... Monkrat act all redeemed because Spindle made him save the kids who were otherwise going to be raped, killed and used as kaelyk fodder.

Monkrats redemption seemed more connected to him acting according to Dassems code of good behaviour. Infact Seedomins penance and Dassems code seems to have that in common that the individiual can redeem him-/herself through doing the right thing. A soldiers faith perhaps?

[Optimus Prime]

Abyss;356330 said:

The entire dynamic in Black Coral will be interesting, with Nimander moving into a leadership role, Clip (minus a finger) shit-disturbing and potentially Mommy D hanging around.

Plus it seems the gate to KG is now located in the throne room - who knows how that plays out - will Chaos be assaulting the city directly? Will the Liosan?


As for the Redeemer, it's still unclear.. he doesn't judge, he doesn't forgive... he 'redeems'... what exactly does that mean? We saw Monkrat act all redeemed because Spindle made him save the kids who were otherwise going to be raped, killed and used as kaelyk fodder. We saw the Dying God die because it belived that the Redeemer summonder it to redeem it, and in theory this links to the redemption of the Tiste Andii via KG, the Gate and Mommy D all being manifest in Black Coral now... my head hurts.


- Abyss, with thinkymeatz pain now...

I've been thinking the same thing. But shouldn't MD's presence ward off most attackers? I mean...she's freaking MOTHER DARK.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Just finished. I really need a reread. I'm feeling confused about...damn near everything. I think i went too fast.

[caladanbrood]

Tarr;356321 said:

add Clip to the list as he's definatly not a misunderstood man and really just a nice guy, he a complete Bast*rd!, even possesed by an evil god he was only marginnaly worse.

I dunno, I reckon Clip was actually a nicer guy when he was possessed. He talked less, at least.