[Leanoric]

Salt-Man Z, on Apr 16 2009, 09:47 PM, said:

Why was Dassem heading to Darujhistan? How he did he know Hood would be manifesting there? Beats me. I loved the book, but I agree that too much of it just feels contrived.

I rather got the impression that Shadowthrone was manipulating Dassem there - he was involved with the plan with Hood and Rake (in the prologoue), as far as I recall. He probably told Dassem that if he went to Darujhistan he would have his chance at Hood. Certainly Shadowthrone seemed to be involved with causing Dassem's boat to sink, sending him in that direction etc...

Sorry if that is hazy - I don't have my books handy for specific quotes.

Leanoric

[Abyss]

I tend to agree. It's hinted at the outset that Dassem is delayed in getting to Genabackis by 'someone', possibly Mael, and it certainly seems like ST and Cots are manipulating events to ensure Das is there just after Rake chops Hood's head off, with the Hounds, Karsa, Cutter and the 2nd providing cover against the other forces which were likely to make a play for Dragnipur (the HoLs, Envy and Spite...). Pust was there too but it seemed ST was expecting him to make a grab for the sword himself, only Kruppe interfered.

Baruk and Brood too.

- Abyss, needs a scorecard...

[D'rek]

Abyss, on Jul 13 2009, 09:40 AM, said:

I tend to agree. It's hinted at the outset that Dassem is delayed in getting to Genabackis by 'someone', possibly Mael, and it certainly seems like ST and Cots are manipulating events to ensure Das is there just after Rake chops Hood's head off, with the Hounds, Karsa, Cutter and the 2nd providing cover against the other forces which were likely to make a play for Dragnipur (the HoLs, Envy and Spite...). Pust was there too but it seemed ST was expecting him to make a grab for the sword himself, only Kruppe interfered.

Baruk and Brood too.

- Abyss, needs a scorecard...

ST and Cot declare that it was Mael who was brought the storm down on Dassem but they don't tell this to Dassem (so not to distract him from going for Hood), so I think we can believe them. While they might lie to Dassem, they wouldn't lie to each other for no reason. They mention, however, that Mael "doesn't get it" and this combined with the strength of the storm and Dassem needing a bear's heart to survive suggests to me that Mael foresaw the impending convergence in Darujhistan but didn't know about the arrangements made and was trying to stop Dassem altogether, if not severely delay him.

Pust's bit is actually really weird, because even without Kruppe stopping him, ST didn't really expect him to get past Karsa, did he?

[Bauchelain the Evil]

Knowing Pust I woldn't have put it below him to manage to wriggle his way past all those powerful guys and grab the sword while everyone was distaracted. Of course, I found it dfficult that Pust could have managed to even lift the sword

[MTS]

I think it was more wishful thinking on ST's part. Even if Pust had managed to get to it, lift it and then escape with it, he would've been hunted incessantly by the other powers, and the other gods would not have let ST and Cotillion have Dragnipur. They'd be too dangerous.

[Abyss]

ST seems fairly certain at the end that it would have been to his benefit if Pust had in fact grabbed the sword.

- Abyss, notes Cotillion wasn't in on that part.

[tiam]

the two dragons thread asnt on the first two pages and this is the most active thread so here we are

Tulas Shorn claims on page 596 that he does not remember his own death while undead dragon a few pages earlier remembers his death. As far as we know only one escaped hoods realm yet this appears to be 2 undead dragons. I remember some sort of discussion about this when TTH was released but do not remember the final consensus on whther it was a)2 dragons un related ie Shorn escaped at some other point or it was another harlos how old special

[Illuyankas]

OR Kagamandra Tulas Shorn was lying. He did steal their horses, after all.

[Abyss]

Just rethinking this...

Shorn was working for Hood - he says as much.

The other undead dragon is looking to work for the CG. Also says as much.

So, in theory, Hood set Shorn free, while the other dragon was the escapee that Gruntle and the TTG saw.

- Abyss, rethunked.

[Jurble]

Problem I have with the whole undead dragons is - they died, outside of Hood's Warren right? So where's the conservation of mass in this? They left a corpse in the real world, and their dead body in Hood's Warren, when leaving Hood's Warren, turns back into a flesh body?

[MTS]

You're arguing conservation of mass in a fantasy series? With magic? I don't think a series with alchemy such as Century Candles is overly concerned with problems like conservation of mass. However, if you wish to think of it in such terms, perhaps the tether that binds the body and the soul, which is presumably severed on death, is reattached to your corpse upon exit of Hood's Warren, which then converts your now-erstwhile corpse into energy, which then manifests as a new body in the image of your ethereal soul, thus granting you with a body upon your re-emergence into the land of the living. At least, that's how I would think of it, because my theory sounds sound, at least in my head, and solves conservation of mass/energy. Problem solved.

This post has been edited by Mappo's Travelling Sack: 18 July 2009 - 02:40 AM

[RangerSG]

I can't really say I've seen anything in the series that argues that magic has to abide by the laws of physics. In fact, given that SE has said his magic system is 'more animistic' than most in nature, I don't see how that is even an issue. That said, I think Mappo's reasoning is solid enough to placate the law if you really feel like you need to.

[Seras]

just gotta say after reading the book again (more carefully) i came across the part where Kallor was talking to an undead dragon, and they were discussing the Jaghut's only war - which i found to be really interesting, then Kallor says "This High King owes you an apology Gothos", so my thoughts drifted as to how many races/people could have been in this war - and how Hood might be the "Impossible victory in the heart of defeat" that was mentioned seeing as he is Jaghut. Any ideas on this?

[Jorram]

Erayle, on Jul 19 2009, 03:26 AM, said:

just gotta say after reading the book again (more carefully) i came across the part where Kallor was talking to an undead dragon, and they were discussing the Jaghut's only war - which i found to be really interesting, then Kallor says "This High King owes you an apology Gothos", so my thoughts drifted as to how many races/people could have been in this war - and how Hood might be the "Impossible victory in the heart of defeat" that was mentioned seeing as he is Jaghut. Any ideas on this?

I think it is pretty much the consensus that Hood is "the impossible victory" indeed. Fits more than neatly.

On the other hand, it's not as though Hood's ascension to the Throne of Death actually changed anything. Things still die. So i don't quite see how is that a victory.

Of course we are not sure what "death" looked like before the Jaghut war and why did they actually want to wage war, seeing as they are nearly immortal anyway. Even if arrogant as they are, every immortal being is likely to experience ennui at some point or other, and hence actually welcome death pretty much..

Maybe death lacked some sort of.. "organizing" which Hood imposed? Maybe Hood's warren is somehow an improvement over the old ice souls whatever thing. Who knows.

[ISTN4249]

Jorram, on Jul 19 2009, 03:59 AM, said:

Erayle, on Jul 19 2009, 03:26 AM, said:

just gotta say after reading the book again (more carefully) i came across the part where Kallor was talking to an undead dragon, and they were discussing the Jaghut's only war - which i found to be really interesting, then Kallor says "This High King owes you an apology Gothos", so my thoughts drifted as to how many races/people could have been in this war - and how Hood might be the "Impossible victory in the heart of defeat" that was mentioned seeing as he is Jaghut. Any ideas on this?

I think it is pretty much the consensus that Hood is "the impossible victory" indeed. Fits more than neatly.

On the other hand, it's not as though Hood's ascension to the Throne of Death actually changed anything. Things still die. So i don't quite see how is that a victory.

Of course we are not sure what "death" looked like before the Jaghut war and why did they actually want to wage war, seeing as they are nearly immortal anyway. Even if arrogant as they are, every immortal being is likely to experience ennui at some point or other, and hence actually welcome death pretty much..

Maybe death lacked some sort of.. "organizing" which Hood imposed? Maybe Hood's warren is somehow an improvement over the old ice souls whatever thing. Who knows.

in The Bonehunters the TTG and Paran go traipsing through the "dead realm" that existed below Hood's realm. It seemed pretty shitty. Maybe they didnt like the accomodations and wanted something better (if thats where everyone originally ended up).

[Dolorous Menhir]

Well. Hood could be called "Death". The Jaghut fought a war against something they called "death". Could it not be that they removed the previous occupant and installed Hood?

[Seras]

Jorram, on Jul 19 2009, 12:59 AM, said:

Erayle, on Jul 19 2009, 03:26 AM, said:

just gotta say after reading the book again (more carefully) i came across the part where Kallor was talking to an undead dragon, and they were discussing the Jaghut's only war - which i found to be really interesting, then Kallor says "This High King owes you an apology Gothos", so my thoughts drifted as to how many races/people could have been in this war - and how Hood might be the "Impossible victory in the heart of defeat" that was mentioned seeing as he is Jaghut. Any ideas on this?

I think it is pretty much the consensus that Hood is "the impossible victory" indeed. Fits more than neatly.

On the other hand, it's not as though Hood's ascension to the Throne of Death actually changed anything. Things still die. So i don't quite see how is that a victory.

Of course we are not sure what "death" looked like before the Jaghut war and why did they actually want to wage war, seeing as they are nearly immortal anyway. Even if arrogant as they are, every immortal being is likely to experience ennui at some point or other, and hence actually welcome death pretty much..

Maybe death lacked some sort of.. "organizing" which Hood imposed? Maybe Hood's warren is somehow an improvement over the old ice souls whatever thing. Who knows.

I hope to find out in Dust of Dreams or the book after then, i found that particular part to be very interesting, seeing as a whole entire race sacrificed themselves for others. also i think death was mentioned as a hold? perhaps in MT, and most Holds seemed rather unorganized. perhaps what was won was a new......manifestation of the warren, hmmm

[Wes]

I dont know about BEST FIGHT WE NEVER GT TO SEE because Traveller would've fucked up Karsa easily...in my opinion when karsa watched traveller and rake fighting, it was the first time we see Karsa shocked or a lil bit scared...he even said that "only a fool would step between these two" or somethin like that

This post has been edited by Wes: 03 December 2009 - 05:45 AM

[Urb]

Karsa never fights the way you expect him to fight.
And Traveler is just as discomforted by the notion of Karsa killing Hounds of Shadow/Darkness.

That said, most of the people on this forum are total Rake and Dassem fanboys and very likely to agree with you.


EDIT: Welcome to the forum

This post has been edited by Urb: 03 December 2009 - 06:42 AM

[rhulad]

I'm very new to the series (came across it about a year and a half ago) but the last 200 or so pages of TtH blew my f**king mind.