[BeLeG]

maybe we cant judge Jhagut history because they mostly work as individuals?

[Optimus Prime]

BeLeG;353113 said:

maybe we cant judge Jhagut history because they mostly work as individuals?

Or they do now? Maybe wayyyyyy back before they fought Death...they weren't so individualized? Who knows....because what could they have been capable of if they had worked together? Good and Bad, most likely.

[anothevilbadguy]

The comment on Jaghut being pacifist I think is slightly misplaced, they are just forced to work behind the scenes and be reclusive, as if they where overt in their actions then they would get an army of Imass coming down on them.
Plus, being a pacifist does not make some one as evil as someone working aggressively towards evil, even if it lessens the opportunities for good compared with someone aggressively trying to achieve noble aims.
The Imass and FA both are evil in that they have flawed inflexible reasoning behind their actions. One seeing pretty much any conflict as resolvable only by destroying both sides of the conflict, and the other as seeing it necessary to exterminate a race due to a few of them being megalomaniacs (and not really that much evidence they acted particularly cruel).
The Imass are hard to understand as those we know about seem to be noble and have a not to different outlook to humans, but they act inconceivably.

[Illuyankas]

Least evil? Thelomen Tartheno Toblakai. They're so easy going, they have sex with EVERYBODY

[Agraba]

The phrase "Dust of Dreams" was mentioned a lot when Challice killed herself. Maybe that's a way of foreshadowing that DoD is going to be full of tragedy.

[Skywalker]

Agraba;353371 said:

The phrase "Dust of Dreams" was mentioned a lot when Challice killed herself. Maybe that's a way of foreshadowing that DoD is going to be full of tragedy.

Hmm... Challice's cup wasn't exactly running over eh?



Hee Hee... see what I did there?

[Cougar]

Skywalker;353373 said:

Hmm... Challice's cup wasn't exactly running over eh?



Hee Hee... see what I did there?

GET OUT!

There were multiple mentions of dust and dreams in TtH you'll have to wait for the re-reads to get refs though

[Nameless One]

Quote

"Pogroms need no reason, sir, none that can weather challenge, in any case. Difference in kind is the first recognition, the only one needed, in fact. Land, domination, pre-emptive attacks -- all just excuses, mundane justifications that do nothing but disguise the simple distinction. They are not us. We are not them."

"Did the Jaghut seek to reason with them, Corporal?"

"Many times, among those not thoroughly corrupted by power -- the Tyrants -- but you see, there was always an arrogance in the Jaghut, and it was a kind that could claw its way up your back when face to face. Each Jaghut's interest was with him or herself. Almost exclusively. They viewed the T'lan Imass no differently from the way they viewed ants underfoot, herds on the grasslands, or indeed the grass itself. Ubiquitous, a feature of the landscape. A powerful, emergent people, such as the T'lan Imass were, could not be but stung--"

"To the point of swearing a deathless vow?"

"I don't believe that, at first, the T'lan Imass realized how difficult the tast of eradication would be. Jaghut were very different in another way -- they did not flaunt their power. As many of their efforts in self defense were . . . passive. Barriers of ice -- glaciers -- they swallowed the lands around them, even the seas, swallowed whole continents, making them impassable, unable to support the food the mortal Imass required."

"So they created a ritual that would make them immortal--"

"Free to blow like the dust -- and in the age of ice, there was plenty of dust."

Quote

The ice was full of bodies, human-shaped figures, twisted and flesh-torn. Organs and entrails were spilled out at the base as if from a giant abattoir. Slowly melting chunks of blood-soaked ice created a lake from which the body parts jutted or rose in islands humped and slick.

Exposed flesh had begun to putrefy into misshapen gelatinous mounds, through which bones could faintly be seen.

Sormo spoke behind him. "He is within it, but close."

"Who?"

"The Semk god. An Ascendant from long ago. Unable to challenge the sorcery, he was devoured with the others. Yet he did not die. Can you feel his anger, Historian?"

"I think I'm beyond feeling. What sorcery did this?"

"Jaghut. To stem the tides of invading humans, they raised ice. Sometimes swiftly, sometimes slowly, as their strategy dictated. In places it swallowed entire continents, obliterating all that once stood upon them. Forkrul Assail civilizations, the vast mechanisms and edifices of the K'Chain Che'Malle, and of course the squalid huts of those who would one day inherit the world. The highest of Omtose Phellack, these rituals never die, Historian. They rise, subside, and rise yet again. Even now, one is born anew on a distant land, and those rivers of ice fill my dreams, for they are destined to create vast upheaval, and death in numbers unimaginable."

Does it disturb anyone else that passive resistance = mass extinction?

[kalmavet7]

I remember a few mentions of dust of dreams and was wondering what exactly it could mean. Obviously there is the idea of dust being connected w/ death or the Imass. The K'rul theory is interesting. Dust to me sounds like the last little trace of something that is no more, easily swept aside. So i'm thinking tragedy.

It also made me think of the Queen of Dreams. She's been very quiet, other than BH bit w/ Leoman. Is she at all connected to Burn's sleep? What if the dust of dreams is Burn waking up, or the threat of it. For that matter, it seems like 2 high houses haven't really done much in the series--Light and Life. Anyone else get the impression they have to do something sooner or later? sorry if this belongs in a crazy theory thread

[Silencer]

The two Houses may have some effect yet - we've started to see the Hounds of Light, however it isn't necessary for them to participate. Most of the spaces in those Houses appear vacant, which would indicate that they won't play too big a role.
It could go either way. I think Light is going to start coming out a bit more - we've really only had the Hounds and that Liosan trio, so the newly released/re-awakened "Master" should be interesting....

[kalmavet7]

plus if the moon shattering released some previously bound Light-aspected ascendant, like Osserc, FL, or whoever the HoL served if not one of them, then maybe we'll see more of High House Light or the Tiste Liosan at least.