[Aptorian]

Well, nothings certain in the Malazan universe, but I don't think Burn is a pushover.

I think that Burn, in a concious, pissed off state, would be on the level of Mother Dark. She is the creator of life on Wu.

[Lisheo]

"Daeneth Rusen, the warren where life began"... Mael says his warren was the origin of life in RG, so I wonder.

[Aptorian]

Lisheo, on Oct 18 2008, 09:30 PM, said:

"Daeneth Rusen, the warren where life began"... Mael says his warren was the origin of life in RG, so I wonder.

I remember that quote. But I think it was Burn who had a finger in the making of that life.

[Grief]

Burn vs Rake would be a very wierd fight.
I believe that Burns power is indiscriminate. And earth aspected. So Rake could probably just hide in other warrens. Not a "win" though.

It would also be very strange for other reasons.

For example, to kill burn, you may not have to do much. She is earth. Do something that messes with the "system" of the earth, and it could self destruct. Like if you did something that caused lots of pain. CG style, although once he is gone, and cleansed, so perhaps is the pain.

Also, since burns power seems to take the shape of volcanos/earthquakes, she hurts herself by using it, by the looks of things.

Also:
All life on the planet does NOT come from burn.
In fact, I lean towards more, everything coming from different places.

The andii come from KG.
OP is mentioned as being the jaghuts "home warren". I doubt they were created by burn.
The Imass seem to have once been of earth, although were sort of "adopted" by Tellan.
The K'chain, well, no-one really knows where they come from. A mystery. They seem so different from creatures of earth that they weren't created by earth.
The FA were created by Killy. I doubt she's the same as burn.

[Lisheo]

I would have assumed she couldn't access Mael's own warren and he doesn't seem the sharing type tbh? The way I saw it, he raised single-celled entities and basic fish in his warren, then tossed em over to Burn when he had had enough.

[Lisheo]

Omtose Phellack: Toc refers to Togg once owning OP, and after his getting lost post-Fall, they were able to access it. It is not their homeworld.
The KCCM are the First Born of Dragons, so from Starvald Demelain methinks.

[Aptorian]

Nit picking but we don't know that Killy made the FA.

Also Togg and Fancypants aspect was winter, while the Jaghuts warren is simply the cold. Different things.

The whole God of a season thing seems to have a wide aspect to it. A balance. Worm of Atumn (decay), Tiger of Summer (war), Lady of Spring (rebirth) and Wolf of Winter... what ever that means... Death?

This post has been edited by Aptorian: 18 October 2008 - 08:06 PM

[Lisheo]

Winter means both death and cold, two things linked to the Jaghut. I wonder if maybe the Wolves were Death originally...

[Urizen]

Aptorian, on Oct 18 2008, 08:50 PM, said:

Lisheo, on Oct 18 2008, 09:30 PM, said:

"Daeneth Rusen, the warren where life began"... Mael says his warren was the origin of life in RG, so I wonder.

I remember that quote. But I think it was Burn who had a finger in the making of that life.

I agree, I doubt Mael, against Burn's wishes, could have begun life on Wu.

[Lisheo]

She doesnt seem to care about life, though. One quote that stuck out in MoI was Kallor, I think "What does she care if humanity is destroyed? She will simply start over again."

[Wintercrazy]

One clarifying point... Wasn't it stated that Icarium lost his memories tearing apart an Azath trying to free his father--implying that he was born before his father was imprisoned in the Azath (or had the opportunity for a freedom of movement within the Azath similar to Paran's or, as rumored, Kellanved/Dancer's). Also the way that some characters have spoken about Icarium's mother (I believe she was referred to as "that bitch") leads me to believe that she was a powerful ascendant--probably time aspected in some way (thus implying Kilamandaros [sp.?])--seeing as her other son is also involved with monitoring the flow of time in some way. Anyway... Apologies for this slightly rambling first post--just a few things that I have been mulling over for quite some time and wanted to get off my chest. I find Icarium to be one of the most interesting characters in the series since he comes with the weight of history behind him (and all of it is implicit--enhancing his appeal).

Edit: A few more musings here on Icarium while I'm on the subject... In one of the books we see [not] Apsalar on the 7 cities subcontinent making the idle observation that the fragments of the shadow realm seem to follow the roads and byways of the land there--leaving a trail to follow. Their presence seems to be made in overlapping layers over a long period of time. In DG Pust says something along the lines of: the largest fragment of the [shredded warren] was right in front of him immediately after being caught by Crokus (upon coming face to face with Icarium). I believe that Icarium is carrying a large fragment of the shadow realm with him as he wanders the continent. It was even mentioned elsewhere that the largest fragments of shadow seem to wander--they are not found everywhere at once. Icarium may even be responsible for the sundering of shadow in the first place (again implied in DG by Mappo's musings). Anyway... Thoughts, comments, suggestions? Rampant madness? Discussion elsewhere?

This post has been edited by Wintercrazy: 20 October 2008 - 12:30 AM

[Gwynn ap Nudd]

Wintercrazy, on Oct 19 2008, 02:47 PM, said:

One clarifying point... Wasn't it stated that Icarium lost his memories tearing apart an Azath trying to free his father--implying that he was born before his father was imprisoned in the Azath (or had the opportunity for a freedom of movement within the Azath similar to Paran's or, as rumored, Kellanved/Dancer's).

You are correct. Icarium lost his memories trying to free Gothos from an Azath. This makes it quite likely he was born before Gothos entered the Azath, as you noted.

The other interpretation of Gothos's situation is that he is being treated like Kellenvad and Dancer were. We've been told he entered the Azath willingly, and as far as I can remember we've never heard it said that he could not leave if he wanted to.

[Urizen]

Wintercrazy, on Oct 19 2008, 10:47 PM, said:

One clarifying point... Wasn't it stated that Icarium lost his memories tearing apart an Azath trying to free his father--implying that he was born before his father was imprisoned in the Azath (or had the opportunity for a freedom of movement within the Azath similar to Paran's or, as rumored, Kellanved/Dancer's). Also the way that some characters have spoken about Icarium's mother (I believe she was referred to as "that bitch") leads me to believe that she was a powerful ascendant--probably time aspected in some way (thus implying Kilamandaros [sp.?])--seeing as her other son is also involved with monitoring the flow of time in some way.

Actually, I think the exact qoute was " that overgrown hag", which might indicate Kilmandaros as she most certainly can be considered overgrown.

[Zorland]

Aptorian, on Oct 18 2008, 09:03 PM, said:

The whole God of a season thing seems to have a wide aspect to it. A balance. Worm of Atumn (decay), Tiger of Summer (war), Lady of Spring (rebirth) and Wolf of Winter... what ever that means... Death?

Sounds like the hounds of death.

[Aptorian]

Ooohh, interesting idea.

Allthough, wouldn't the wolves of winter then be the... hounds of winter... ice... cold floorboards.

[Traveller]

Icariums mother was presumably a Toblakai, judging from his meeting with Karsa. Maybe the Toblakai are descended from Kili, but I wouldn't say she was Iccys mother.

[Aptorian]

Traveller, on Oct 20 2008, 12:07 PM, said:

Icariums mother was presumably a Toblakai, judging from his meeting with Karsa. Maybe the Toblakai are descended from Kili, but I wouldn't say she was Iccys mother.

Just think of the mental images of Gothos and Killy getting their freak on.

[IronB@rZ]

Hey does anyone know who this Tyrant might be that is supposedly coming to Daru? they mention him/her a lot in tth, he even has a card in the DOD as torvald noms wife reveals


by the way you guys rock. I've been a reader of this forum for 2 years now and this is my first post ever, I love all the speculation and theories y'all come up with, its almost as entertaining as reading the books.

anyway keep up all the cool discussion

[Aptorian]

My personal theory is that the tyrant is a power, not a person. Or perhaps that the original Tyrant lies burried beneath Darujistan and that what the bad guy wants to harness. Like that warlock in ROTCG.

That's what ironworks guy is working on summoning.

This post has been edited by Aptorian: 20 October 2008 - 01:42 PM

[ch'arlz]

Aptorian, on Oct 20 2008, 09:41 AM, said:

My personal theory is that the tyrant is a power, not a person.

Is there any other entity you can point to that is a power, not a person?