[Greymane]

**SPOILERS FOR TTH*

So, lets talk about the Tyrant. Firstly, if someone could clear this up I'd be greatly obliged - is the Tyrant of Darujhistan a single person, or was it a title held by a succession of monarchs? The way Baruk and the Cabal fear the return of the Tyrant, it seems like they think of that Tyrant as a specific person, rather than just a return to a certain for of government.

For now though, lets assume the Tyrant-to-come will be someone we know. Who are the candidates? My list;

- Kallor. Obviously he's the top candidate. He's done it before. This time, perhaps, things will be different. Kallor may have gone through some changes (or may not), but he still desires a throne. He's got a new objective now, one similar to Karsa's; to destroy civilisation so thoroughly that he can't possibly fall again. He describes himself as the personification of human ambition, a description that seems to jibe well with the role of a Tyrant.
- Karsa Orlong. He was told to wait in Darujhistan. Why?
- Raest. He's been there before. Maybe he decides to come out of retirement?
- Tulas Shorn. Possibly the true 'Father Shadow' (true Master of the Hounds, at least), and a leader who was once on par with Ruin, Andarist and Rake.
- Vorcan. Baruk thinks she's the most likely to turn on him to ingratiate herself with the Tyrant. What if she decides to take the title for herself? Also, we know the Tyrant and the Seguleh are linked. And who happens to work for Vorcan now? Why, a trio of Seguleh, of course.
- Lady Envy. Again, a (somewhat tenuous) link with the Seguleh. Perhaps the return of her father drives her to some desperate measures? I don't really feel it though, but I threw her in for the aforementioned Seguleh connection, and for the fact that she remained in Darujhistan.
- Traveller? I don't think so, but I'll toss his name in there. It would be a neat twist, if the Tyrant turned out to be a good guy. Or if a good guy turned bad.

[Aptorian]

I was almost expecting Vorcan, Derudan and Baruk to name Karsa the Tyrant at the end of the book, but it didn't happen.

It seems to me that Humble Measure was doing some kind of preperation. I think the Tyrant needs to be summoned, or dug up. It is possible that the Tyrant isn't a person but a power, and through some ritual Humble Measure will be able to turn himself into the Tyrant.

I think there was once a Tyrant and the subsequent kings were lesser men, mortal rulers. Sort of like how Romulus founded Rome and there afterwards were a host of kings, but none as legendary or as favored by the gods as the twins.

I don't think Kallor is going to be the Tyrant. He's got a house and new warren to worry about, if he ever gets to sit his ass on that throne that is...

As for Raest, events in NoK show that Tyrants can at least attempt to escape, but it doesn't sound like Raest has any plans. After all, he has a nice cat to keep him company now.

[lfex]

Karsa is supposed to stay in Darujhistan, because he will be needed to kill a god. I assumed this means Tyrant, since what other god would come specifically to Darujhistan?

[Aptorian]

I think Karsa is being held ready because he's needed in the last stand against the CG.

[scabandari]

Didn't they say the tyrant was returning so i thought it might have been that imass that got trapped in the Azath and he was going to replace Raest but that would have been strange as he never managed to return but it might have been Kallor and he was stopped by Spinnock

[Aptorian]

We didn't hear of any connection between Humble measure and the temple of the Chained God or the Crippled God. I doubt there's any connection there, allthough I could certainly see the Cripled God wanting in on any kind of power Humble Measure might be unearthing under Darujhistan.

[Greymane]

Aptorian;345391 said:

It seems to me that Humble Measure was doing some kind of preperation. I think the Tyrant needs to be summoned, or dug up. It is possible that the Tyrant isn't a person but a power, and through some ritual Humble Measure will be able to turn himself into the Tyrant.

That's an interesting idea. So the Tyrant would be sort of like the positions of the various Houses, Knight of Shadow, Mason of Death, etc. The power always exists, it just waits for someone to fill it.

lfex;345401 said:

Karsa is supposed to stay in Darujhistan, because he will be needed to kill a god. I assumed this means Tyrant, since what other god would come specifically to Darujhistan?

Gods seem to come to Darujhistan fairly regularly. It's like a holiday spot or something.

[Illuyankas]

KARSA IS MEANT TO STAY IN DARUJHISTAN SO HE CAN MEET UP WITH TORVALD NOM DAMNIT

[caladanbrood]

While reading it, I did think that the tyrant was the Imass that Harllo met, but I doubt he'll escape from the Azath that quickly...

[Thelomen Toblerone]

Illuyankas;345533 said:

KARSA IS MEANT TO STAY IN DARUJHISTAN SO HE CAN MEET UP WITH TORVALD NOM DAMNIT

You are true. Also to kill a God.

[Imperial Historian]

Thought i'd collate what we know about the position of tyrant to maybe spark an idea:
There was more than one tyrant, darujhistan was ruled by the tyrant kings, whether the tyrant is one specific person who these other tyrants ruled in place of, or some power bestowed upon an individual is unknown.
Kruppe, ie the eel is dedicated to prevent the return of tyranny to darujhistan
The Tyrant created the seguleh, and the t'orrud cabal, the t'orrud cabal are a group of long lived mages who are trying to prevent the return to power of the jaghut.
The seguleh's realtionship to the tyrant is unknown, they will only accept commands from a better fighter than themselves, and dislike mages, whether this system of following the best fighter was instigated before or after the tyrnats demise is unknown, if before, the tyrant must be an extremely powerful swordsman.
the t'orrud cabal are afraid of the tyrant, with the mages remaining they do not believe they can repulse him, despite them being not insignificant powers in there own right.

From TTH there seemed to be a definite sense that the tyrant, or the source of his power was below the city, perhaps in the gas chambers, I got the impression that the tyrant was a specific person rather than a nebulous power, in my view the possible candidates are kallor, who we know has founded powerful empires and left them under the command of his children, or someone we have yet to meet who has been imprisoned for hundreds of years under darujhistan and is now close to escape.

[blewin]

I think it's probably someone we have yet to meet, to make complete the one big mystery of the huge history in the Malazan world. There's bound to be more revelations in the coming books on various holes in the history to lay the groundwork for when the Tyrant emerges.

[ritchiediaz]

The one thing I find confusing with any speculation regarding the Tyrant of Darujhistan, is the coincidence of having had a Jaghut Tyrant in a barrow in the hills just outside of it.

Now, back in GOTM, baruk and all the T'orrud Cabal (other than Vorcan who was busy killing the others) were obviously terrified of Raest being released., hence Rake's involvement.

We are very clear that they are NOT the same Tyrant (who is human I think), so is this other Tyrant more powerful than Raest?

Kallor would be the (too) obvious candidate.

Humble Measure is obviously plotting something to do with the Tyrant's reappearance too.

Caladan Brood and Baruk were together at the end of TTH; Brood looks like a good candidate to assist against the Tyrant, similar to how Rake helped with Raest.

[blackzoid]

There may be some connection between the Tyrant and the human First Empire.
Didn't Samar say that the name Segulah was an ancient First Empire word? Anvil or shield wasn't it?
Could one of the Tyrants have been Dessimbelackis I wonder?
When were the Tyrants ruling anyway? Where they as far back as the First Empire and Kallors's adjucent empire on Jacuruku?

[Cause]

I thought it was going to be kallor the whole book but its obvious he was after the throne of chains in the end. Also he walks away from darujhistan and yet barack says at the end that someone is still working on bringing back the tyrant

Its a rather massive loose thread left hanging at the end of the book. Its very unclear but we have gathered the following peices
Humble measure
Krulls temple
Krull
Seguleh
Torrud cabal

The knight of death asked if the fever zeal still affects his people and if they guard against the coming of the tyrant I think he said.
Vorcan was able to get seguleh to fight with her. Supposedly outlawed seguleh but still interesting. Also as shes a member of the torrud cabal it gets complicated
Baruck was not happy that pickled seguleh were found in krulls temple
The ghost priest in the temple talks of sword brothers or some such thing. I got the impression of worshippers of krull who were allowed to carry weapons. Seguleh?
Its still suspect that lady envy commands three seguleh. I dont buy that they tried to kill her. Its against their society to attack women who dont challenge them first
krull, draconus are like brothers, Lady envy and spite are draconus daughters. We are often told that the elder gods a few thousand years ago were bastards

Is the tyrant one of the elder gods?

[Illuyankas]

Just to point out, it's Dassem who's walking away at the end of TTH, Kallor's in a pub drinking.

[Cause]

oh yes thats true. Still my point stands he wanted the throne of chainsnot darujhistan

[Imperial Historian]

With regards to seguleh attacking lady envy, we've seen that they show a pronounced distrust of sorcery, reasonable seeing as they are expert swordsmen who can only reasonably be eliminated easily by magic users, to the point where them attacking lady envy rather than waiting would seem plausible.

[Aptorian]

I would guess that Envy has some arrangement with the Seguleh nation. While I don't remember it stated outright, I believe the estate Pust and Fisher visits is the Segulehs Embassy in Darujistan.

Of course perhaps Envy is just using more of her mind control tricks to ensure she lives a life of comfort in their midst.

By the way what ever happened to Garath or Baljaag, which ever beast wasn't Fancytail, after MoI? It would had been awesome if it was found lying and slumbering in fron of a fire or something.

As for the Tyrant being an Elder God... what would an Elder God want a city for? While they can certainly be ambitious, conquering lands and domination people doesn't seem like worth the pain in the ass for a god.

[Cause]

When do we see them have this reaction to sorcery? Gods I cant wait for them to discover ottotarel, gods how do you spell this

I found it strange that the second who mocks his people 'fever zeal' also made the comment that their fight against choas erased some fo their shame of falling to a foreigner.

@Aptorian I dont think that was their embassy just another note connecting the seguleh with darujhistans history. Also while its the tyrant of darujhistan you dont kneed ten thousand seguleh unless you like messing with other people. Still their must be something between krull temple and the tyrant