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PC gone wrong

#41 User is offline   Tsundoku 

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Posted 19 August 2018 - 06:58 AM

TEN YEAR THREAD NECRO!

Top that Gust Hubb!

:p

More from the people that brought you "microaggressions", "safe-spaces", "triggered" and other such drivel:

https://www.news.com...ff4823bcfa54036

Actually, it's quite sad that these days there are far too many of these examples around, and it feels like the number is increasing at an exponential rate.
Funny thing is I don't think the majority that push it actually believe in it, they're just paying enough lip service to appease the mob in order to be left alone.

This sort of shit deserves to be mocked, not enabled. There's a big difference between discussing something distasteful in an objective, adult way and promoting it.

I guess my generation with it's helicopter parenting, completely unrealistic expectation management, lack of use of the word "No" and participation medals are to blame. Sorry about that.

This post has been edited by Tsundoku: 19 August 2018 - 07:07 AM

"Fortune favors the bold, though statistics favor the cautious." - Indomitable Courteous (Icy) Fist, The Palace Job - Patrick Weekes

"Well well well ... if it ain't The Invisible C**t." - Billy Butcher, The Boys

"I have strong views about not tempting providence and, as a wise man once said, the difference between luck and a wheelbarrow is, luck doesn’t work if you push it." - Colonel Orhan, Sixteen Ways to Defend a Walled City - KJ Parker
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#42 User is offline   Macros 

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Posted 19 August 2018 - 07:28 AM

I read the article and I'm still slightly baffled.

So she was fired for playing a clip of someone else's speech that gave an opinion piece on a transgender issue/law thing and didn't jump on the table decrying her disagreement with it so got fired?
Did she play it and shout 'right on brother!' or did she play it as part of a class discussing the speech and its impact or what?

This post has been edited by Macros: 19 August 2018 - 07:28 AM

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#43 User is offline   Tsundoku 

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Posted 19 August 2018 - 07:38 AM

From what I gathered it was the latter.
"Fortune favors the bold, though statistics favor the cautious." - Indomitable Courteous (Icy) Fist, The Palace Job - Patrick Weekes

"Well well well ... if it ain't The Invisible C**t." - Billy Butcher, The Boys

"I have strong views about not tempting providence and, as a wise man once said, the difference between luck and a wheelbarrow is, luck doesn’t work if you push it." - Colonel Orhan, Sixteen Ways to Defend a Walled City - KJ Parker
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#44 User is offline   Macros 

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Posted 19 August 2018 - 07:48 AM

Well it sounds as stupid as some of the other things in this thread then.

However the rest of the article, whilst it makes valid points, does take a bit of a nose dive at the end. And the crowd in the last picture seems to be, unsurprisingly, all white dudes. For some reason this didn't surprise me and I felt it was relevant with the tone of the latter half of the article
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#45 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 19 August 2018 - 07:52 AM

I like Jordan Peterson. He pops up in my YouTube feed here and there and, while I don't always agree with some of his opinions, he's able to explain and deconstruct these academic and societal arguments in a way that is more easily digestible.

He reminds me of a less angry Richard Dawkins.
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#46 User is offline   Silencer 

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Posted 19 August 2018 - 08:16 AM

View PostAlternative Goose, on 19 August 2018 - 07:52 AM, said:

I like Jordan Peterson. He pops up in my YouTube feed here and there and, while I don't always agree with some of his opinions, he's able to explain and deconstruct these academic and societal arguments in a way that is more easily digestible.

He reminds me of a less angry Richard Dawkins.


Oh god. Jordan fucking Peterson.

The man is at best intellectually dishonest and at worst, actively pandering to the incel/oppressed white male/"the only feminism is feminazism"/gamergate crowd. He's a slightly more educated/qualified and less pompous sounding Sargon of Akkad (who is an outright sophist - in the sense of the word that means someone who uses clever-sounding but poor arguments to mislead people, not the classical sense that meant "teacher").

Nothing wrong with listening to him, but don't take him as the sole source or any sort of authority on the stuff he talks about. Not only is he often making slightly poor or deliberately vague "points" in his talks, he also unquestionably has a pretty serious bias.
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<Vote Silencer> For not garnering any heat or any love for that matter. And I'm being serious here, it's like a mental block that is there, and you just keep forgetting it.

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#47 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 19 August 2018 - 08:34 AM

Oh he definitely has a bias but I don't see him supporting the red pill crowd, merely pointing out the fallacies in the opposite sides arguments. He's the necessary voice of opposition in a society that shies away from criticizing the politically correct "alt-left".

The problem with people speaking out against feminists, LGBTQ activists and the like, when they get carried away, is that typically they're some loathsome basement dweller who makes you want to take a shower, where as, at least from what I have seen, Petersson is capable of having a civil discourse on touchy subject matter.

I have yet to see him debate a journalist with out him making salient points that they couldn't dismiss. That doesn't mean I always agree with him but I do value his input.

The people trying to make Universities into safe spaces are a bigger problem than the Jordan Petersons of the world.

This post has been edited by Alternative Goose: 19 August 2018 - 08:53 AM

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#48 User is offline   Tsundoku 

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Posted 19 August 2018 - 08:36 AM

@Silencer
So are you saying he doesn't deserve to be discussed in that lecturer's subject? As being a recently-prominent part of the greater public discussion, I mean.

This post has been edited by Tsundoku: 19 August 2018 - 08:36 AM

"Fortune favors the bold, though statistics favor the cautious." - Indomitable Courteous (Icy) Fist, The Palace Job - Patrick Weekes

"Well well well ... if it ain't The Invisible C**t." - Billy Butcher, The Boys

"I have strong views about not tempting providence and, as a wise man once said, the difference between luck and a wheelbarrow is, luck doesn’t work if you push it." - Colonel Orhan, Sixteen Ways to Defend a Walled City - KJ Parker
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#49 User is offline   EmperorMagus 

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Posted 19 August 2018 - 09:19 AM

View PostAlternative Goose, on 19 August 2018 - 08:34 AM, said:

Oh he definitely has a bias but I don't see him supporting the red pill crowd, merely pointing out the fallacies in the opposite sides arguments. He's the necessary voice of opposition in a society that shies away from criticizing the politically correct "alt-left".

The problem with people speaking out against feminists, LGBTQ activists and the like, when they get carried away, is that typically they're some loathsome basement dweller who makes you want to take a shower, where as, at least from what I have seen, Petersson is capable of having a civil discourse on touchy subject matter.

I have yet to see him debate a journalist with out him making salient points that they couldn't dismiss. That doesn't mean I always agree with him but I do value his input.

The people trying to make Universities into safe spaces are a bigger problem than the Jordan Petersons of the world.


I have yet to see Jordan Peterson open his mouth without also seeing him spew a cubic meter of bullshit at the same time. The man can use the English language well, I give him that, but the semantic content of his utterances are closer to bovine feces than any listener should be willing to endure (heh, did you see what I did there?)

Anyways, I've said this before on this forum, but I'm going to repeat it again: Jordan Peterson talks well, but he cannot argue at all. He makes unfounded assertions, he lies, his allegories are bullshit, he raises his voice and shouts over the opposing side, and he is in love with strawmanning.
Dulce et decorum est
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#50 User is offline   Silencer 

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Posted 19 August 2018 - 09:50 AM

View PostTsundoku, on 19 August 2018 - 08:36 AM, said:

@Silencer
So are you saying he doesn't deserve to be discussed in that lecturer's subject? As being a recently-prominent part of the greater public discussion, I mean.


Not at all. But look at what has happened after this - turns out, the lecturer is not "neutral". She had an agenda showing her class that video and by not explaining to her students the fallacious and poor arguments he was using, she was instead propagating his viewpoints.
That's not educational, that's not encouraging discussion, that's using your position as a teacher to spread an ideology. Ironically, the self-same things she's now accusing the universities of the world of doing.

See, very recently I was a university student. I can't claim to speak about all univerisites, but my experience at University of Auckland was that there isn't any vast left wing conspiracy or PC rubbish. Aside from the sociology department being oddly enamored with communism, there was way more talking time given to groups that were literally espousing hate than to groups trying to make safe spaces or push some nonsensical white guilt agenda.
Not saying that doesn't happen in some universities, just saying that claiming free speech and rational debate are dead at universities is both hyperbolic and often not true at all.

Peterson should be used as an example of bad arguments that you get your students to critique, not as an example for them to follow. Not because of his views but because of his poor form.
The fact that his views also get used a lot to validate faux intellectual "logical thinking" (read feelings are bad and being nice is bad, and it's really just an excuse to both be an asshole and accuse women of being emotionally compromised) just makes it all the worse.
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Shinrei said:

<Vote Silencer> For not garnering any heat or any love for that matter. And I'm being serious here, it's like a mental block that is there, and you just keep forgetting it.

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#51 User is offline   Tsundoku 

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Posted 19 August 2018 - 10:52 AM

"Ironically, the self-same things she's now accusing the universities of the world of doing."

Fair point, looks like she definitely overstepped her boundaries. It's crappy no matter who does it IMHO. Information and debate are one thing, leading people by the nose with a view to indoctrination is another.

However if she was doing it from the other perspective she would probably been applauded by the groupthink at her Uni.
The main guy interviewing her on the recording certainly comes across as a snivelling twerp though.
OTOH she did know she was being recorded, so how much of her reactions are with that in mind as opposed to genuine?

Still, all this BS over eleventy thousand forms of gender identification definitely needs to GTFO already. Unless I can have a preferred pronoun that is "Lord Most High Grand Poobah God Emperor"?
But insisting that everyone call me that simply because I preferred it and for no other measurable, scientific, provable reason would be just silly, right? :p

This post has been edited by Tsundoku: 19 August 2018 - 10:53 AM

"Fortune favors the bold, though statistics favor the cautious." - Indomitable Courteous (Icy) Fist, The Palace Job - Patrick Weekes

"Well well well ... if it ain't The Invisible C**t." - Billy Butcher, The Boys

"I have strong views about not tempting providence and, as a wise man once said, the difference between luck and a wheelbarrow is, luck doesn’t work if you push it." - Colonel Orhan, Sixteen Ways to Defend a Walled City - KJ Parker
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#52 User is offline   Macros 

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Posted 19 August 2018 - 12:57 PM

How about we just refer to everyone as 'it'
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#53 User is offline   Gorefest 

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Posted 19 August 2018 - 12:58 PM

Well, if it would genuinely hurt your feelings not to be called that, I would not have a problem with calling you that.
Yesterday, upon the stair, I saw a man who wasn't there. He wasn't there again today. Oh, how I wish he'd go away.
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#54 User is offline   Macros 

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Posted 19 August 2018 - 03:03 PM

Genuine question.

for languages that differentiate a lot of words based on gender (for example german, a male player is Spieler, a female is Spielerin), are they starting to ignore the female versions of the word and just using a single term like English does or is t a real bruhaha when someone uses the wrong version of the word?
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#55 User is offline   Gorefest 

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Posted 19 August 2018 - 03:17 PM

Wrong version? Not sure I understand you. In English you have male and female versions of jobs as well. Waiter/waitress, steward/stewardess etc
Yesterday, upon the stair, I saw a man who wasn't there. He wasn't there again today. Oh, how I wish he'd go away.
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#56 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 19 August 2018 - 04:01 PM

View PostMacros, on 19 August 2018 - 03:03 PM, said:

Genuine question.

for languages that differentiate a lot of words based on gender (for example german, a male player is Spieler, a female is Spielerin), are they starting to ignore the female versions of the word and just using a single term like English does or is t a real bruhaha when someone uses the wrong version of the word?


I remember Spain and Mexico have been dealing with the issue from a podcast I heard.

https://en.m.wikiped...ity_in_Spanish8
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#57 User is offline   Macros 

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Posted 19 August 2018 - 05:14 PM

View PostGorefest, on 19 August 2018 - 03:17 PM, said:

Wrong version? Not sure I understand you. In English you have male and female versions of jobs as well. Waiter/waitress, steward/stewardess etc



i mean for like every job and word.

you don't have a football player and football playeress
a referee and refereess a doctor and doctoress, and artist and an artistess, and so on and so oness

in English a shirt is a shirt regardless of who owns, male or female, but in some languages the "a" or "the" changes depending on the gender of the owner etc.

just wondering how gender neutral/ fluid situations is handled in those languages or do they just plump for the masculine in every case or feminine for every case (to be honest it would be tits if they just made every word in German one or the other and leave us with one word for the, one for a, etc etc instead of 3/23 or whatever the fuck they have)
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#58 User is offline   Maark Abbott 

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 07:47 AM

View PostMacros, on 19 August 2018 - 03:03 PM, said:

Genuine question.

for languages that differentiate a lot of words based on gender (for example german, a male player is Spieler, a female is Spielerin), are they starting to ignore the female versions of the word and just using a single term like English does or is t a real bruhaha when someone uses the wrong version of the word?


German has, from memory, neutral words. So I'd imagine that a player becomes a Spieluhr, and from the erde singt das kind.
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#59 User is offline   rant 

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 09:56 PM

View PostTsundoku, on 19 August 2018 - 10:52 AM, said:

"Ironically, the self-same things she's now accusing the universities of the world of doing."

Fair point, looks like she definitely overstepped her boundaries. It's crappy no matter who does it IMHO. Information and debate are one thing, leading people by the nose with a view to indoctrination is another.

However if she was doing it from the other perspective she would probably been applauded by the groupthink at her Uni.
The main guy interviewing her on the recording certainly comes across as a snivelling twerp though.
OTOH she did know she was being recorded, so how much of her reactions are with that in mind as opposed to genuine?

Still, all this BS over eleventy thousand forms of gender identification definitely needs to GTFO already. Unless I can have a preferred pronoun that is "Lord Most High Grand Poobah God Emperor"?
But insisting that everyone call me that simply because I preferred it and for no other measurable, scientific, provable reason would be just silly, right? :p


I always struggle to get past the false equivalence of "Lord Most High Grand Poobah God Emperor" or "attack helicopter" and 'they, zi, ze, or whatever" lol......

*Cough**Health researcher [scientist] here**Cough* (admittedly I'm a public health researcher, so small scale experimental stuff isn't really my bailiwick, so bare(bear?) with me here)

I'm pretty confident I could design a study (/find multiple within the existing literature) with measurable outcomes that would demonstrate the link between pronoun adoption and positive well-being. Truthfully, the MOST interesting and impactful would be a counterfactual where-in you see if positive well-being decreases as latent (e.g. the implied ) personal pronouns for cis (not trans) individuals is abandoned [e.g. Take a bunch of cis folk, do a baseline well-being measure, toss em in a meeting for a few hours where research assistant plants are ignoring their pronouns in some way, do another well-being measure at the end of it, see what shakes out]
BUT I doubt that would ever get past an ethics board LOL....because the possible harm(e.g. the possible outcomes) to the human subjects would too be great.

I do find the concept of micro-aggressions frustrating, as the idea implies malice when really ignorance is probably to blame. E.G. When I meet a non-binary person for the first time who presents as male, I will probably initially think and refer to them as male. This is out of ignorance to their personal preference, not an aggressive act on my part to re-establish the dominant hierarchy or some such. It always feels to me that in trying to emphasize the humanity and individualism of marginalized groups with micro-aggression rhetoric, we (being social activists like myself) de-emphasize the humanity and individual nature of 'micro-aggresors'.

RE: Lindsay Shepard,some clarification (from my readings of the issue):
She wasn't fired or anything, and the only reprimand was the meeting she recorded. After that meeting went viral, academics across the country (even people in dusty ol NB were talking about it) decried her treatment (academics have academic freedom that is generally protected as fiercely as freedom of expression), Laurier (the university in question) publicly apologized, and I believed made some kind of commitments to protecting academic freedom and freedom of expression. Her supervisor publicly apologized as well. She got justice, and a win for freedom of expression.

But Shepards been riding the firestorm ever since--after the recording, she continued tweeting about basically every interaction she had on campus, started a Laurier free speech group (whose first guest was Faith Goldy), continued riding THAT firestorm until she started getting video interviews and sessions like the one here, and now is suing Laurier for 3.6 million, claiming they damaged her reputation so severely she'll never get a job in academia (ignoring the fact that SHE released the tape of a private meeting that would never seen the light of day otherwise; ignoring the fact shes on record shitting on her field (communications) and the people in it; etc; etc.). I mean...maybe I'm misconstruing things here--I've not been following it super closely, but from the outside.....it seems a tad..... suspicious.

I'm not saying she's a opportunist, but if she quacks like an opportunist, walks like an opportunist, and bathes in publicity like an opportunist, shes probably an opportunist.
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#60 User is offline   Studlock 

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Posted 21 August 2018 - 04:35 AM

There's a crypto-fascist administration in power in the most powerful state in the world who then proceeded to put children into camps, 4 million Yemeni are starving in a war backed by that administration, the most populace state in Canada elected an actual idiot who immediately did lasting damage to education system, an Australian politician unironically called for a 'Final Solution' in banning muslim immigration to that country, Israel is an Apartheid settler-colonial state in 2018 and so on, and yet y'all still care about 'political correctness' brought to head by actual grifters (Peterson and his ilk) as if it as all that important.

Pull your heads out of your collective asses jesus fucking christ
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