[The Drum]

Wampyry, on Nov 13 2008, 04:13 AM, said:

CatKillerJoe, on Jun 26 2008, 07:50 PM, said:

I just finshed RG and very much enjoyed it. I am however confused a bit..at the end when the werrant was in the throne room with trull.. what exactly did he do? I mena i reread the whole chapter twice,but never found anything that showed what the errant did.

I think it what the Errant didn't do that's important. He could have easily convinced his butt-fucking
son (don't know if he is a batter or catcher) to leave a guard or two over Rhuland's body. Or he
could have made some noise to alert Trull that he wasn't alone. Why he didn't do something is
unknown. Maybe he was afraid the Edur would return and proclaim Trull Emperor.

IMO I thought that the Errant hid the shadow of the owl that flew past Trull just before Sirryn reached him

'And his blessed shadow, directly beneath his feet- no risk of it's advancing ahead to warn the bastard. There was that one moment when a shadow had flitted across the sand - a damn owl, of ll things - but the fool had not noticed.'

now after that the Erant says he was what he was ' a tipper of balances.' maker of widows etc.

To me the reason why the errant got involved was that with Trull alive, the balance between good and evil was leaning towards the good and so the errant did his job and evened things out?

[Urizen]

The Drum, on Nov 26 2008, 12:19 AM, said:

noticed.'

now after that the Erant says he was what he was ' a tipper of balances.' maker of widows etc.

To me the reason why the errant got involved was that with Trull alive, the balance between good and evil was leaning towards the good and so the errant did his job and evened things out?

I don't buy that, seeing how the Errant has never tipped the balance in favor of "good" or good luck. To me the Errant is a selfish version of Oponn, without the Lady's pull. The only time I can remeber the Errant tipping the balance for good luck is at the end of MT when he diverts the Jheck and that was only because the Errant feared for his own skin. Either the Jheck/the Pack gets him or the T'lan Imass does.

[The Drum]

Urizen, on Nov 26 2008, 10:24 AM, said:

The Drum, on Nov 26 2008, 12:19 AM, said:

noticed.'

now after that the Erant says he was what he was ' a tipper of balances.' maker of widows etc.

To me the reason why the errant got involved was that with Trull alive, the balance between good and evil was leaning towards the good and so the errant did his job and evened things out?

I don't buy that, seeing how the Errant has never tipped the balance in favor of "good" or good luck. To me the Errant is a selfish version of Oponn, without the Lady's pull. The only time I can remeber the Errant tipping the balance for good luck is at the end of MT when he diverts the Jheck and that was only because the Errant feared for his own skin. Either the Jheck/the Pack gets him or the T'lan Imass does.

I know what you mean but i can't see any other reason why he would get involved with the event of Trulls death

[Jude]

Maybe the Errant never tips it in the favor of good because good has been doing so well through the whole series.

COME ON, CRIPPLED GOD! MAKE SOME HEADWAY ALREADY! BE A MORE AWESOME BAD GUY SO THE ERRANT DOESN'T HAVE TO KEEP PULLING YOUR DAMN PANTS UP FOR YOU!

[D'rek]

The Drum, on Nov 26 2008, 03:52 PM, said:

Urizen, on Nov 26 2008, 10:24 AM, said:

The Drum, on Nov 26 2008, 12:19 AM, said:

noticed.'

now after that the Erant says he was what he was ' a tipper of balances.' maker of widows etc.

To me the reason why the errant got involved was that with Trull alive, the balance between good and evil was leaning towards the good and so the errant did his job and evened things out?

I don't buy that, seeing how the Errant has never tipped the balance in favor of "good" or good luck. To me the Errant is a selfish version of Oponn, without the Lady's pull. The only time I can remeber the Errant tipping the balance for good luck is at the end of MT when he diverts the Jheck and that was only because the Errant feared for his own skin. Either the Jheck/the Pack gets him or the T'lan Imass does.

I know what you mean but i can't see any other reason why he would get involved with the event of Trulls death

In the words of Ganath, the Errant got fed up with his worshippers going against his own wishes and so altered his aspect and became a god of change, in the short-term being luck. His "flavour" of change was that he fought against 'ennui' and 'stagnation'. Basically he makes random stuff happen, whether good or bad, in order to keep things perpetually changing, never remaining too much the same for too long. Basically, keeping things "unbalanced". And since the Forkrul Assail were mighty believers of maintaining the "balance" of all things all the time, they had a big beef with this and there was a fight between the FA and the Errant, which is weird since they're both represented by the same Fulcra tile. Why would he get involved with Trull's death? To keep things unbalanced. It's what he does.

[T'Lan Bok'Aral I'Mass]

If the Errant decides to make changes on a whim,how isi t that Bottle see's and foretells what'll happen to Trull in his sleep as the Marines are fighting their way to Letheras weeks before?

[Lisheo]

T'Lan Bok'Aral I'Mas, on Nov 29 2008, 03:08 AM, said:

If the Errant decides to make changes on a whim,how isi t that Bottle see's and foretells what'll happen to Trull in his sleep as the Marines are fighting their way to Letheras weeks before?

I can't believe no one has brought this up before what does Bottle actually see, I cant quite remember?
Oh, and welcome to the forum

[T'Lan Bok'Aral I'Mass]

Thanks for the welcome! If i remember right,when Fid's squad is bein run ragged and they finally allow Bottle some shuteye.He seems to be mumbling in his sleep about"oh,the owls shadow!You always need to keep an eye on its shadow!Now its to late!" or some such.

[Lisheo]

T'Lan Bok'Aral I'Mas, on Nov 29 2008, 03:22 AM, said:

Thanks for the welcome! If i remember right,when Fid's squad is bein run ragged and they finally allow Bottle some shuteye.He seems to be mumbling in his sleep about"oh,the owls shadow!You always need to keep an eye on its shadow!Now its to late!" or some such.

I do remember that alright. No prob. Its an interesting point... I wonder if perhaps the Errant always intended to kill Trull.

[Aptorian]

Uhm, could we get that quotes exact words? The mumbling you describe there doesn't have any obvious connection with Trull.

[The Drum]

Aptorian, on Nov 29 2008, 08:33 AM, said:

Uhm, could we get that quotes exact words? The mumbling you describe there doesn't have any obvious connection with Trull.

just found this, page788 paper back edition, chapter 17, book three;

'from the stretcher behind him, Bottle muttered in his sleep, then said, distinctly: 'He never sees the owl. That's the problem.'
Poor bastard. Raving in delerium. Exhausted. Sleep easy soilder we need you.
I need you. Like Leoman never needed me, that's how i need you. Because I'm a sapper now. I suppose.
'Ask the mice' Bottle said 'They'll tell you' He then mumbled something under his breath, beofe sighing and saying: 'If you want to live, pay attention to the shadow. The shadow. The owl's shadow.'
At the other end of the stretcher, Cuttle grunted then shook the handles until Bottle groaned again and edged onto his side. Whereupon the young mage fell silent.'

This aprt is after the battle with the demons and Corrab is thinking about his new role with the marines

Never picked up on that before, well spotted!!

This post has been edited by The Drum: 29 November 2008 - 12:26 PM

[Aptorian]

So has anyone confirmed that the owl symbolises the Errant? Otherwise I don't see the connection between Bottles dream and Trull.

One could theorize that the Owl symbolises the Watcher of the Holds. Don't know what the shadow of the owl means. It could be one of the sisters that Bottle is dreaming about.

[Traveller]

'A thrust to the heart, the conclusion of a silent stalk across the sands, his breath held overlong for the last three steps. There was one moment when a shadow had flitted across the sand - a damned owl, of all things - but the fool had not noticed. No indeed, the sun stood at it's highest point.'

I don't think the Errant is symbolised by the owl or anything, just that Bottle was having a premonition in his sleep - it does seem to be related, although I'd not noticed it before. And a later line, just after...

'watching from an unseen place, the Errant stepped back, pulled away as if he would hurl himself from a cliff. He was what he was. A tipper of balances. And now, this day - may the Abyss devour him whole - a maker of widows.'

It really looks like the Errant could have tipped the balance the other way, and let Trull see the shadow. Similar to Oponn, but nothing to do with luck.

D'rek, on Nov 27 2008, 04:16 AM, said:

Why would he get involved with Trull's death? To keep things unbalanced. It's what he does.

Yep. He seems to take responsibility for Trull's death, anyhoo.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 29 November 2008 - 02:59 PM

[Aptorian]

Interesting, the last quote suggests that the Errant doesn't always act of his own will, that he is not only bound by his aspect like we see in MT but also compelled to act by his aspect.

[Traveller]

He seems in this case to have nudged because the opportunity presented itself - even if the outcome wasn't to his liking. I think previously he was taking a bit more pleasure in the disruption he was causing, without noticing that it wasn't under his control - the result with Trull seems to shock him a bit.

Mr President... !

This post has been edited by Traveller: 29 November 2008 - 03:14 PM

[Mcflury]

As I've said before: the Errant just does what's necessairy. That doesn't mean he likes what he's doing... he just knows it has to be done and he won't try to beat around the bush about it... Yep, I love the Errant, and so should everyone else

[Aptorian]

Why did Trull need to be killed then oh wise sage? There really was no reason other than stabbing the fanboys in the heart

[Traveller]

There may be a reason why Trull had to die, but I don't think so - it was more that because the Errant had an opportunity in front of him to change (possibly significant) future events, in this case with the owl shadow, he couldn't resist it.

Something as small as missing a shadow might have really implications later, ie. had Trull survived.

It seems that the Errant changes events through 'nudges' - small, almost insignificant acts in themselves, but with big repercussions.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 29 November 2008 - 05:21 PM

[Excellence]

This post contains RG spoilers...

The Errant--code named Joe--has absolute amorality. He blatantly ignores his incessant worshipers, as he tells you, preemptively strikes his friend Mael, and yet knows a Feather Witch unleashed would be a horror, and as he tells you in a classic line, sometimes a nudge is not enough. In her case, a pull is required. Under water level long enough. And yet for no reason whatsoever, Joe takes down the Shadow Knight. Well, "seemingly" no reason.

Joe's scenes were among the most interesting in the book. So introspective. He can't help what he is. His power doesn't go beyond Letheras, but he can't help nudging and moving people in all his neutral apathy.

This post has been edited by Excellence: 30 November 2008 - 12:09 PM

[Jude]

This is very awesome of the Errant. I really want to re read RG for a number of reasons now.

People seem to be forgetting about Bottle's premonition. I for one say, "wtf!" Has bottle done this any other time? why was HE dreaming about Trull's impending take down. He has no connection with Trull at all. anyone have any theories on Bottle's apparent precog capabilities?