[kaf09]

Just a query on which others might have some insight. In the closing stages of ROTCG, Graymane meets Skinner mano a mano. Skinner wins the fight but Graymane says to Ullen (shades of "we wuz robbed") that he (G) should have used the sword on him (S). He says further that he did not use the sword because of the proximity of a sanctuary to the battlefield. Since that sanctuary was dedicated to Burn, it makes me think that (possibly) Graymane carries a sword that is somehow an analogue of Brood's hammer; i.e. use of the sword might stir the sleeping goddess and cause widespread destruction.

Did anyone catch another reference to Graymane's sword in ROTCG? I can't find it yet.

[Veilside]

Isn't he also called Stonesword? That obviously makes me think of the Tlan Imass but I can't see what the connection might be.

[ShadowOwl]

At the beginning of the novel, Kyle noticed that Greymane used a large sword to take out the mage, but when he came back down, the next time he saw Greymane, he had a thin smaller sword and he was wondering about that. Seems to reinforce something special about that sword.

[FilthyGnome]

ShadowOwl;330438 said:

At the beginning of the novel, Kyle noticed that Greymane used a large sword to take out the mage, but when he came back down, the next time he saw Greymane, he had a thin smaller sword and he was wondering about that. Seems to reinforce something special about that sword.

But if he did get a brand new sword somehow, it begs the question of how he found out that it was Burn-invested (if it indeed is that)? Not exactly like he had a lot of mages in CG to help him out with that.

[Zanth13]

FilthyGnome;330732 said:

But if he did get a brand new sword somehow, it begs the question of how he found out that it was Burn-invested (if it indeed is that)? Not exactly like he had a lot of mages in CG to help him out with that.

I was thinking more along the lines of he had the sword the whole time (the big one) and only uses it when necessary...otherwise he uses the little one...

though re-reading battle scenes may prove me wrong

[ShadowOwl]

Pg 18 -19, Greymane uses a two handed sword to kill/stab the mage Shen. Then right after, Kyle wonders where it went as Greymane does not even carry a sheath large enough for that sword, and now has only a slim longsword on his back. So it is possible this is a magical sort of sword.

[dolfanuk]

well that clears up the name of ICE's 3rd novel.

[Denuth]

Well in regards to a post awhile back by veilside, it's actually stonewielder, so i'm not sure if that would differ the possible connection to T'lan Imass or not but perspective somewhat

[ShadowOwl]

There is a definite link between Greymane's sword and Burn. When Greymane was fighting Skinnner, his sword was the thin one and of course he got nowhere against that armour. After, he comments that he would have 'used the sword, but it was too close to the temple and he was not sure what would happen' and the temple is Burn's. So the large two handed sword they expected him to use seems to be from Burn, and the 'stonewielder' name would be more attached to Burn's aspects. Seems to open up a lot of questions about the sleeping goddess. Is a lot more important and powerful than thought about, maybe she is mother earth too?
Denuth is made of basalt = stone = dolmens =mother earth connection =burn? just an idea...

[BeLeG]

I'm really dissapointed that Skinner needs magical armour to fight another top swordsman.
I expected so much more from him.The fact he is a villain now does not bother me as much as this..

[Veilside]

BeLeG;336490 said:

I'm really dissapointed that Skinner needs magical armour to fight another top swordsman.
I expected so much more from him.The fact he is a villain now does not bother me as much as this..

Dassem is a god though, so he's on a whole other level of BAMF.

[BeLeG]

Yes but he used it against greymane too didnt he?
Disputable outcome,right?

[Veilside]

He kicked the crap out of Greymane though.

[Abyss]

I tend to agree GM's sword is some sort of Burn related weapon like Brood's hammer - maybe its purpose is to cut the chains binding her to the Cg as opposed to Brood's hammer which wakes her up.

We only saw the sword that one time at the start. GM's comment at the end suggests its got some heavy mojo as he was afraid to use it even in a fight where he was being soundly beaten.

I liked Graymane. He was an intersting character in terms of warrior with a conscience and an interesting background.


EDIT to add someone elsethread suggested GM might be Burn's Mortal Sword and i'm totally loving that notion. It might follow that Brood is her Destriant (likely, being High Denul).

- Abyss, penwielder.

This post has been edited by Abyss: 26 September 2008 - 02:00 PM

[Aptorian]

BeLeG, on Jun 23 2008, 12:48 AM, said:

I'm really dissapointed that Skinner needs magical armour to fight another top swordsman.
I expected so much more from him.The fact he is a villain now does not bother me as much as this..

You're disappointed that a ruthless mercenary wants any advantage he can get, including a set of armor that makes him invulnerable? Well, gosh.

I wonder if he is the villain though. Skinners actions were those of an ambitious general/politician who removes any obstacle to his schemes. In this case the Malazan Throne. That he had to kill some of his own Guardsmen and betray his duke, well that's just too bad. Now, he's chosen the position of King in Chains but I doubt he's going to be any more interested in the CGs plans than Kallor was/is.

I thought the suggestion that he spent time hanging out with Ardatha and his curiosity in Kurald Liosan showed that a more sympathetic human hides under the cold exterior.

Veilside, on Jun 23 2008, 12:50 AM, said:

Dassem is a god though, so he's on a whole other level of BAMF.

It was never what ever power Dassem gets from his worship that gave him his skill with the sword. IMO there's no real indication that ascendants become more skilled than mortals when they ascend. They "just" become faster and tougher. Dassem has always been that good. The Cult hasn't affected that trait.

This post has been edited by Aptorian: 27 September 2008 - 02:37 PM

[blackzoid]

Aptorian, on Sep 27 2008, 03:36 PM, said:

BeLeG, on Jun 23 2008, 12:48 AM, said:

I'm really dissapointed that Skinner needs magical armour to fight another top swordsman.
I expected so much more from him.The fact he is a villain now does not bother me as much as this..

You're disappointed that a ruthless mercenary wants any advantage he can get, including a set of armor that makes him invulnerable? Well, gosh.

I wonder if he is the villain though. Skinners actions were those of an ambitious general/politician who removes any obstacle to his schemes. In this case the Malazan Throne. That he had to kill some of his own Guardsmen and betray his duke, well that's just too bad. Now, he's chosen the position of King in Chains but I doubt he's going to be any more interested in the CGs plans than Kallor was/is.

I thought the suggestion that he spent time hanging out with Ardatha and his curiosity in Kurald Liosan showed that a more sympathetic human hides under the cold exterior.

Veilside, on Jun 23 2008, 12:50 AM, said:

Dassem is a god though, so he's on a whole other level of BAMF.

It was never what ever power Dassem gets from his worship that gave him his skill with the sword. IMO there's no real indication that ascendants become more skilled than mortals when they ascend. They "just" become faster and tougher. Dassem has always been that good. The Cult hasn't affected that trait.

Skinner was the only Avowed to walk away from a clash with Dassem. That shows how good he is. No matter the result of his second fight with Dassem, he did manage to stay alive after their first clash.
I'm looking forward to a more thorough examination of his character in SE's books.

[Quick~]

it was an interesting little mention and I think we're obviously meant to make the connection between the sword, burn and the fact he's called stoneweilder. I guess we'll be in for some further explanation within the next book which I look forward to.

It would have been interesting to see how the fight would have gone down if it was somewhere else, the aspected armours invulnerability might well have not held against an aspected swords attack.

[caladanbrood]

This whole theory annoys me to be honest... I understand why people are quick to jump on Greymane being a sort of human Brood, but really...

Yes, the sanctuary is Burn's, yes he says he couldn't use the sword nearby. But by no means whatsoever does this mean that if carries "Burn's Sword". It is clearly a very very powerful magical item - so much so that it apparently doesn't exist when he's not using it, so it's possibly pure magic and nothing solid at all. Burn has been vulnerable ever since the events of MoI, so any crazy magicness going on right next to her sanctuary is bound to be bad for her. There is no solid evidence that suggests it is Burn-aspected.

Basically I'm saying, this sword is powerful enough to kick Ossric's ass, so it would be powerful to disrupt the sleeping goddess somewhat without being aspected to her.

Of course, it will probably end up being true, but as theories go... It's lacking substance.

[Abyss]

On the Greymane subject, i tend tho think there are a LOT of hints towards him being connected to Burn in some way... 'Stonewielder'...the using the sword near Burn thing... the nearly immovable on ground but unhappy on water thing... the sensitivity to the warrens... hell, he went up against Skinner and lived, which is saying a lot. I think we can agree he's more than human. Beyond that, i suspect it's a RAFO situation.

As for Skinner, i also had a reaction like the OP, sort of dissappointed he was anything more than an extremely talented swordman (I had a similar reaction when Blues was shown to be a Mage.), but even as far back as TB were had hints of that. That he allied with Ardata and then the CG for more power is logical.

We don't really know exactly when Dassem and Skinner first clashed, but fair bet Das wasn't a god (but was Hood's Knight) and Skinner was avowed at the time. This time, both had ascended beyond their last clash and Dassem was a fairly clear winner both times, which i suppose makes Skinner that much more impressive.


That said, i think ICE handled the 'power-ups' in a logical way. Greymane is more than human, but only somewhat. Skinner was already avowed and he sought more power. Blues was always a Mage but his warren is D'riss which doesn't do much for his sword skills.

- Abyss, can now walk, chew gum AND talk on the phone at the same time...

[Urb]

No theories about Greymane's connection to the stormriders (was that the right name for them?) or him being imune to cold temperatures?
And why did I think Stonewielder was a name for Karsa Orlong?

This post has been edited by Urb: 08 October 2008 - 03:05 PM