[lasombra]

How strong must the Entity's be/become after being releasd from the sword.If it is possible they get releasd

From the endless toiling from puling the wagon im sure they must become Pretty strong/special

[Aptorian]

There's no fool proof way to ascend. Dragging stuff for a hundred thousand years won't necessarily make you stronger.

Who knows, perhaps the soul continues it's normal lifespan from outside the sword, inside the sword. Meaning mortal creatures die of old age inside the sword.

[Zanth13]

Aptorian;315829 said:

There's no fool proof way to ascend. Dragging stuff for a hundred thousand years won't necessarily make you stronger.

Who knows, perhaps the soul continues it's normal lifespan from outside the sword, inside the sword. Meaning mortal creatures die of old age inside the sword.

True and good points Apt.

Though the lumps of flesh seen still alive(ish) being dragged behind the cart would suggest that it doesn’t let anyone go for any reason...

Also the way everyone talks about the sword being a finality makes me think you get trapped inside mind body and soul...

[Silencer]

@Zanth - I do believe that Draconus 'reconsidered' it's finality, i.e. he made some changes so that it wasn't quite so final.....
A mortal creature would probably die, but it's unlikely there are many mortal creatures able to pull the wagon. So they just end up dessicated and still living. Assuming the sword doesn't just sustain them indefinitely (unlikely, otherwise they wouldn't ever fail at pulling would they?).

[Aptorian]

I think we're venturing into too deep a contemplation of the swords nature. I doubt Erikson has concerned himself that much with every aspect.

[Zanth13]

Aptorian;315894 said:

I think we're venturing into too deep a contemplation of the swords nature. I doubt Erikson has concerned himself that much with every aspect.

BLASPHEMER BURNS HIM!!

Actually you’re most likely correct on that point. SE just doesn’t seem to care about some of the minor details (neither do I)... stuff like timelines and gender.

He is more interested in the story itself... which is fine with me... if it wasn’t for all the pedantic bears on the forum I would have never even noticed any of the time line issues or any other mistakes.

[Silencer]

You're probably right, Apt, but it seems to be a major plot thread. I suppose we'll find out eventually....

[Tiger_sword]

I suspect those weaker creatures within the sword die but their soul can't escape the sword to get to hood's realm so it stays within the sword and within the dead body. Its my opinion that when/if the sword is broken a vast number of its inhabitance will be claimed by hood straight away. Only the strongest will escape and (I reckon) will be completely free

[Gem Windcaster]

I have a feeling we might just get some tidbits about the nature of the sword when the patron of thieves gets her ass out of there.

However, I don't think we have to complicate things. The nature of existence inside the sword are meant to take a while, that's really all we know.

But the idea of people becoming ascendants simply so that the sword can torture them is intriguing, since Ganoes little excursion inside it then probably would mark his ascension.

But meh, I'd rather think of the sword as a sort of stasis chamber. It's just easier.

[D'rek]

While he might not be quite 100% mortal...

Spoiler

we've seen one of Pale's wizards in the sword, and he's probably just a regular mage, not a 'paranoid-undying-mage' like the Darujhistan ones

[Abyss]

Take it one step further... in theory, none of those inside the sword have bodies any longer. Fundamentally, the warren in Dragnipur may be nothing more than a visualization of how captured souls power the magic keeping the gate to Darkness away from the end.

So, unlike when an Azath dies and the physically bound ascendents crawl free, here, the souls have no bodies to return to. (Unless of course they do for whatever reason)

Which to my mind leaves three possibilities:

- weaker souls go to the afterlife/Chez Hood (your average mage, demon, souls that have basically given up and were rotting on/behind the wagon...), barring any particular thing that would pull them elsewhere;
- powerful souls exist as ghost type thingies and/or possess new bodies from the living (Telorast and Curdle);
- EXTREMELY powerful souls (basically, Draconus) would just reassemble their own bodies, alog the lines of what the CG did for Sandalath in MT.

Now, as for whether surviving Dragnipur serves as grounds for ascension, Paran was an exception, and his stroll came on top of other things going on inside him. I don't think just being there would in and of itself be enough, tho it might contribute to other factors in some individual cases.


- Abyss, soul man.

[Gem Windcaster]

I still say it's a stasis chamber.

[Aptorian]

I think it's an easy-bake owen.

[caladanbrood]

I imagine a majority of the souls will fall through the rent into chaos, so having bodies or not might be rather a moot point at that stage.


Just a few big nasties will be let forth - most likely ascended or close to it before they were imprisoned anyway.

[Sinisdar Toste]

theres a mess of dragons in there too iirc, they could pose some problems when the sword is shattered

[Kulp Diet]

This may be off base, but I've always considered the Draginpur quasi-warren to be more of a soul prison of the "will". Theoretically, you are only bound by the weakness of your own will to break free. But 99.9% of your spririt's strength is occupied and sapped by the endless, futile pulling of the wagon, which is in itself a metaphor for the futility of trying to escape.

When Paran stood at Hood's gate and smarted off to Oponn and then ST, he reminisced about his "problem with authority". Then, when he enters Draginpur, we see the hounds tugging at the chains so hard they seem to lurch the wagon this way and that. Their wills are strong, but not quite enough. Paran somehow finds the right chain links to release them. How? Because he was good at ironwork puzzles? I think rather, it was simply a manifestation of his will--the reason, IMO, the Deck takes notice of him and chooses him as master. We certainly see that will imposed on anything and everyone in TBH as Master of the Deck.
And for the record, I think his ascendency began with his resuscitation. ST announced, "No warren can touch you now but Hood's", or something like that. (of course it could have just been b/c he was at Hood's gate, but SE often tends to have more than one meaning behind declaritive statements from dieties, so my imagination likes that).

Now...

Spoiler

We see in the prologue, Apsalar (the real one), working out a way to eventually escape. Everyone else just keeps trudging and feeling sorry for themselves. By sheer force of will, she does what seems obvious to us non-will-sapped types, and begins methodically working toward her release.

Just musings though.

[Cougar]

Didn't the hounds just dive headlong through the hole under the wagon thereby leaving Dragnipur, Apsalar says it's too cold to go into but the hounds dived through in a frenzy.

[Lisheo]

And look what happened to the hounds, the Deragoth statues eh absorbed them. Definatly a fun way out.

[Oseric]

The sword kills people and is pretty much like Hood's warren.
except that they arent really dead, cuz the people dont die, they get tossed into the wagons. No one actually dies in there, they just keep pulling till they run out of stamina and are then tossed into the back.

the stronger the person or ascendent or dragon, the longer they can pull that weight that is growing from all the weak people Rake kills.

Rake needs to confront people and help out the people trapped in the sword is my opinion.

or like the sword the Crippled God had made... it neeeds to be destroyed somehow although that may release all the people... or possibly they will all reach Hoods Gate instead which would be much better for the world i think


thats just my two cents