Silencer;325150 said:
Terez, beside your incorrect point about the white majority not getting to decide things (it IS a democracy after all - rule by the people, based off a majority)
People often misunderstand me when I make that sort of statement. I'm not ignorant of the way things work - I'm just saying, this is how it
should work, and here's why.
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I can see what you are saying. However, what some people are trying to say here is that AA does NOT make things equal - it does the very opposite.
I agree that AA doesn't make things equal - it obviously doesn't, because it's been in place for a long time and things still aren't equal - but I definitely disagree that it does the opposite.
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Think about it, if one person gets favored based off of race, does that make the system equal or biased?
The system is biased so that society can be made equal, not in the sense of pure socialism, but in the spirit of a true meritocracy.
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I can understand why AA exists, but surely it should just be a system to make sure that someone is not-not-hired because of their race
That's exactly what it's for.
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rather than making sure that people of a certain race ARE hired because of their race?
What you're not recognizing is that quotas are the only way to make this happen in a world where racism is still a reality. Extreme racism might be more rare than it once was, but latent racism is obviously still rampant. Minorities continue to suffer from it, so until society gets over the race issue, AA is necessary. You're saying it's harmful to non-minorities and degrades minorities. I'm saying, let the minorities decide when they're being degraded, and as for the first bit, just get over it, because as has been said quite truthfully many times in this thread, you benefit from white privilege every day whether or not you recognize it.
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Also, leaving the decision of when something is enough to the people being benefited by it does not seem particularly smart to me
I anticipated that it would not, didn't I?
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how do you draw the line on this?
I don't draw the line - our lawmakers do. Our lawmakers are usually relatively levelheaded about this sort of thing, even if I don't always exactly agree with what they agree on.
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Is it when a vocal minority say it's enough? Is it when a polled majority says it is enough?
It's when the vocal majority of the minority in question says it's enough, in a way that convinces our lawmakers that it would not be a social injustice to change the laws. With so much racism still in the US, I am not in the least bit surprised that blacks in general are not yet comfortable without those laws. That's why it's up to the white majority to be aware of latent racism, and to combat it, and why it's up to the white majority to turn the other cheek as much as humanly possible when they encounter racism
from minorities, because we should all as educated citizens realize that this racism is the product of a lot of cultural baggage, and that responding to racism with racism isn't productive, and that just because someone else does it, doesn't make it justified.
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What if it's never enough because some people are insecure and want a higher chance of a job?
As I said before, I have faith that the majority of minorities that are protected by AA are scrupulous. It may be one day that I will be proven wrong, but as it stands now, changing these laws in fear of that possibility is ridiculous.
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What about the people that see racism around every corner?
Sometimes it's hard not to see racism around every corner when you encounter real racism on a daily basis. It's up to each of us, no matter what race, to change that. Bitching about AA laws isn't helping the situation at all.
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Of course, I don't have any other suggestions....I think polled majority is the best option, but even that seems a bit unlikely to happen.
The reason why a polled majority is a bad idea in the US is pretty obvious - the majority doesn't stand to benefit, and is quite likely to be biased. I don't believe that white people are given the shaft because of AA very often at all in the US. People hear about cases of it, and think that it's the norm, but they fail to realize how extremely uncommon it is. I can't find the link to it right now, but I've posted a study on another board that shows that a vast majority of students who are admitted to universities without meeting the qualifications are white kids whose parents donate money to the school or had some other kind of connection. A similar study of the workforce would probably show (and probably has shown) that the white privilege connection dominates there as well.