[Urb]

Affirmative action = people being hired as part of a quota ???

If so; it is necessary (at least here in Norway anyway). Racism and sexism is a problem when it comes to hiring new people, because it's usually the older generation doing the hiring. And a lot of them are still racist to a certain extent because they've had very little interaction with minorities. If they see two aplications, one with a norwegian name and one with a name they have difficulties pronouncing, the latter often ends up in the garbage can without even being opened. Afirmative action is necessary to level out the playing field. You could say it will probably level itself out in a generation or two, but that is an unacceptable amount of time.

Racism is very much an issue in everyday life. Like Shinrei no Shintai pointed out, racial slurs should not be part of your vocabulary, for the simple reason that it is bad etiquette.


Fun fact:
In Norway, at least 40% of the boardmembers of any company (or political party) has to be female. Or else they will be shut down. The old white guys are slowly loosing their grip on all the power

[Giles]

I agree with Macros here, It annoys me when i fill in an application or something like that when i get to the part where it says.. to ensure that we dont discriminate we would like to know your ethnic background. Now to me that is just plain racist needing to know my ethnic background for a job is racist because it implies that they only want a certain amount of each race. Now i just tick the box that says i dont want to disclose the information as id rather race was not taken into account for these things.

@ xander here i agree with silencer if your black roomate assumed all whites are racist until proved otherwise then he's a racist.

another point that annoys me is that if you have a white guy start a fight with black guy it seems the white guy is automatically labeled a racist without people actually looking into what really happened and if it was actually anything to do with race or if they just didnt like each other as people.

@ Tyrant Lizard- I havent heard the term reverse racist before but it does seem to be how the authorities seem to view it which is totally stupid.

Sorry about the rant but this topic does annoy me quite a bit

[Macros]

Urb;313774 said:

Fun fact:
In Norway, at least 40% of the boardmembers of any company (or political party) has to be female. Or else they will be shut down. The old white guys are slowly loosing their grip on all the power

this is ridiculous, what if there simply isnt 40% of applicants qualified females, they go short?
that is the most retartded law I've ever heard, counting the illegality of keeping a giraffe in a bathtub

[Flawed]

Racism in general is all very odd. Generally based on ignorance and fear.

Its a tired concept, but as per the above it will always exist so long as there are different races. It will be something else mark my words when in a thousand years were all coffee coloured. It will be the circumference of someone's elbow, or some such that will incite discrimination or the like. Its human nature to be a knob.

Anyhow. I've lived in a few different places in the UK and it doesn't matter where you go there is always some underlying discrimination going on. Colour or otherwise. When i lived in Southall London, we were the only white family in about a 10 mile radius. We didn't suffer any form of racism. That was mainly due to the fact that the Chinese were warring or hated the blacks, the blacks didn't like the Indians, the Indians didn't like the Spanish and so on and so on.

What you generally don't hear is that racism isn't just a white and black thing its all colours of the rainbow. You only had to live on our street for 5 mins to see that. Its a human failing not a coloured failing of any kind.

Now my Missis is black and of course our children are half and half. We have never had any detrimental words or such thrown at us or anything like that until we went to London to visit her old man and it was like we had gone back 200 years. The amount of looks and blatant staring and comments thrown our way by all colours and creeds was unbelievable. You kind of forget after a while that perhaps your relationship with another colour was once thought of taboo, and it was really strange to be in that sort of environment again.

London, probably one of the most multi cultural places going, is also home to a bizarre take on racism taken to the extreme.

It took us a while to wonder why people were doing it until we both looked at each other and laughed. All very strange to us, and water of a ducks back to be sure, but it just goes to show you that it doesn't matter where or how you are, what colour, age or outlook on life, as long as there are humans then there will always be discrimination. Not just whites and blacks but every colour against every colour.

Go to Southall to find out for yourself.

I for one vote we wipe Humanity in general off the planet. That or re education or some such. Because lets face it. 50 years ago people were probably saying that when England or wherever is multicultural, then there will be no racism but they neglected to look beyond the stereo typical white and black racism and look to ALL colours.

Humanity would have to be one race, one colour, one religion, one boring monotone of everything, before it would be wiped out and THAT'S never going to happen.

We wouldn't be human then.

[Pig Iron]

Fairly balanced thread on an internet forum about a subject like this. For sure, anything I could add has been said better above (notably Xander).

Edited to fairly balanced Dislike racism and PC both. Prefer individuals to groups anyway. Though things might not be so simple if you're in a minority or caught up in a conflict. What do I know.

[Cause]

Urb;313774 said:

Affirmative action = people being hired as part of a quota ???

If so; it is necessary (at least here in Norway anyway). Racism and sexism is a problem when it comes to hiring new people, because it's usually the older generation doing the hiring. And a lot of them are still racist to a certain extent because they've had very little interaction with minorities. If they see two aplications, one with a norwegian name and one with a name they have difficulties pronouncing, the latter often ends up in the garbage can without even being opened. Afirmative action is necessary to level out the playing field. You could say it will probably level itself out in a generation or two, but that is an unacceptable amount of time.

Racism is very much an issue in everyday life. Like Shinrei no Shintai pointed out, racial slurs should not be part of your vocabulary, for the simple reason that it is bad etiquette.


Fun fact:
In Norway, at least 40% of the boardmembers of any company (or political party) has to be female. Or else they will be shut down. The old white guys are slowly loosing their grip on all the power

So you think its fair that in my country as a white male I cant get a job. Even if Im the most qualified for it because I am at the bottom of the quota list? Its just racism backword. Their are chairman of large companies in my country who have the job title, the salary and the right skin colour and dont know what they are doing. They are their to meet the quota and nothing else. Their was a news story about how one spent his days playing computer games.

[Obdigore]

Cause;313854 said:

So you think its fair that in my country as a white male I cant get a job. Even if Im the most qualified for it because I am at the bottom of the quota list? Its just racism backword. Their are chairman of large companies in my country who have the job title, the salary and the right skin colour and dont know what they are doing. They are their to meet the quota and nothing else. Their was a news story about how one spent his days playing computer games.

Yes, that is the problem with Affirmative Action. Companies are fined huge amounts if they don't meet their 'quotas', and so the 'incumbent' race (generaly caucasian) has to compete for a smaller number of jobs.

The only 'Affirmative Action' that should be taken, in my opinion, is helping those that cannot pay for it themselves and have done well in school, get secondary education (Uni or College or whatever you want to call it).

Any attempt to make things 'more fair' for one race of people discriminates against another.

[Giles]

Cause;313854 said:

Its just racism backword..

It's not Racism backwards there is no direction for racism, that is just simple racism.

[Macros]

I tihnk he means its got to the stage where the group seen as the oppressors and disadvantaged are now the disadvantage, a switcharoo of sorts

[Astra]

I don't know about South Afrika, but I believe that in Western Europe the problem is not a racism but PC.

[stone monkey]

Cause;313854 said:

So you think its fair that in my country as a white male I cant get a job.

Okay, shall we count the ways in which the sense of entitlement in this question, purely based on having white skin and a penis, could be considered annoying?

Quotas are wrong, if you're qualified for a job the colour of your skin shouldn't matter. Nor should your your gender, sexuality or any one of a number of other criteria. If you get a job over better qualified candidates because of any of these origin, that too is wrong.

However it was and in many places remains the case that it does make a difference and the majority of people who suffer because of this aren't white, heterosexual males. If you're being passed over for equally qualified candidates from under represented groups in the job market then I personally have zero problems with this - although in the interests of fairness it should be noted that I actually am black...

I'm old enough to remember a time when such efforts towards fairness weren't made and whilst going back to the bad old days might be in your interests if you're a white, heterosexual, able bodied male, there are some of us around who don't meet all of those criteria and are at least moderately better off the way things are.

[Urb]

Macros;313798 said:

this is ridiculous, what if there simply isnt 40% of applicants qualified females, they go short?
that is the most retartded law I've ever heard, counting the illegality of keeping a giraffe in a bathtub

They hunt them down somehow. And if they're not experts in the field, they'll be given councilors (like any politician would). But it's quite common for women to have a higher education in Norway, so it's not really a big problem (or so I've heard).

------------------------------

Urb;313774 said:

Affirmative action = people being hired as part of a quota ???

If so; it is necessary (at least here in Norway anyway).

Cause;313854 said:

So you think its fair that in my country as a white male I cant get a job. Even if Im the most qualified for it because I am at the bottom of the quota list? Its just racism backword. Their are chairman of large companies in my country who have the job title, the salary and the right skin colour and dont know what they are doing. They are their to meet the quota and nothing else. Their was a news story about how one spent his days playing computer games.

I don't know enough about the situation in South Africa to make a good argument against you. It does sound a bit extreme that these people are not even doing their jobs though.

[Cause]

stone monkey;313949 said:

Okay, shall we count the ways in which the sense of entitlement in this question, purely based on having white skin and a penis, could be considered annoying?

I dont understand your negative reaction did you read all I wrote. I am not being passed overy for equally quallified I am not even a potential applicant because the quota system has females over males. Blacks beat coloured who beat indians who beat etc etc. I dont feel entitled to anything but I feel having the best degree or best marks in said degree or even best interview which what really matters should count over the colour of my skin or penise. Thats what I was saying.

Quote

Quotas are wrong, if you're qualified for a job the colour of your skin shouldn't matter. Nor should your your gender, sexuality or any one of a number of other criteria. If you get a job over better qualified candidates because of any of these origin, that too is wrong.

However it was and in many places remains the case that it does make a difference and the majority of people who suffer because of this aren't white, heterosexual males. If you're being passed over for equally qualified candidates from under represented groups in the job market then I personally have zero problems with this - although in the interests of fairness it should be noted that I actually am black...

Ill tell you something else than that relates to what your saying. The govermet is trying to phase in a system were you cant tell whose more qualified. Only if you passed/failed and your skin colour and gender will be able to be given to you employer/university entrance. So Its not a question of a black kid with 86% beating out a white kid with 86% in med school selection, a palce where the quotas are extremly high In a few more years if they have their way it will be black kid matric diploma against white kid matric diploma. Black kid wins automatically.

[Macros]

Quote

the colour of my skin or penise

surely they're the same colour?

[Cause]

Im jewish

[Cougar]

Macros;314021 said:

surely they're the same colour?

My skin isn't purple! Yikes.

Seriously now, I get a little irritated by big stick afirmative action, it's an unsubtle tool and creates resentment towards minorities that didn't previously exist. However, until all white men are trustworthy enough not to discriminate it's probably the only feasible option. (I have to say it's gone a little far in the police judging from what I hear)

Nevertheless, to back up Mr 'Monkey on this even in my comparatively short life I've seen the impact of positive discrimination in Britian and I can only suggest that the pain it causes the odd white guy is worth it to make sure we don't have repeats of the race riots of the 80s. Believe me in the UK as a white, hetro man you still hold most of the cards and not only that you own the casino.

[The Tyrant Lizard]

I went for a job as a fireman a few years ago and was told plain and simple, we need to fill quotas for ethnic firefighters, so you cant have the job.

I can't see how that is not racist. If an ethnic person went for a job and was told they were only looking for white workers the place would be shut down.

[Macros]

that ridiculous, now a public emergency service is suffering because of this quota bullshit.
how do they think forcing you to only hire ethnics goig to improve the fireservice?
If theres a qualified person wanting to save lives fucking let them, dont descriminate because of skin colour, do they honestly think the firemen are goig to hold back on saving an asain so they need greate representation?

[stone monkey]

Astra;313921 said:

I don't know about South Afrika, but I believe that in Western Europe the problem is not a racism but PC.

Speaking as an actual black person who lives in Western Europe let me first say:
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaah....!

Sorry about that. Where was I?
Oh yes. I tell you what, when the drunken white folks stop shouting racial abuse at me from their cars; and when the nationalist parties (whose major policy statements seem to consist of "send the darkies home") stop getting seats on councils and in parliaments across the continent; then I might agree with you.

[Macros]

Well I'll admit it may be worse across the water, wee're to busy shooting each other to bother with race issues here.
I always took the nationalists main problems to be the flood of immigrants coming into britain and not addapting to the culture, not existing british citizens of non white origin, but again, they're not prevalent over here.

baudin said:

I agree with Macros here, It annoys me when i fill in an application or something like that when i get to the part where it says.. to ensure that we dont discriminate we would like to know your ethnic background. Now to me that is just plain racist needing to know my ethnic background for a job is racist because it implies that they only want a certain amount of each race. Now i just tick the box that says i dont want to disclose the information as id rather race was not taken into account for these things.

this is what I was aiming at with racism has now been taken into pc and quota balancing, if they make you tick you ethnic background on an applicaiton they're being racist, they're clearly basing part of their filtering process on what colour your skin is or what religion you are. An application should only consist of:
Qualifications
Relavent experience
your personal statement of aweseomness

You should get the interview based solely on whether they think you capable of the job, not profiled and award preference if you're from *insert choice here*
f'neh