[Paran]

Well he's also editing 2 anthologies, doing his Dunk and Egg stuff, approving drawings, miniatures, fake swords, and of course blogging, emailing, etc.

Wert, I think books 4 & 5 were very good too so I very much disagree with you on SE's work. Book 6 and 7 were different in that they were not fully self=containted (main arcs did no get full resolution), but I would rate every book far above aFfC.

With Martin, I honestly believe that he enjoys the attention (good or otherwise) and loves the fact that so many ppl are awaiting news on aDwD, so he subconciously keeps stringing everyone along. He made the statement that he wouldn't talk about it, but keeps going and handing out crumbs to keep everyone keep. If he just shut up about it like he said and got it done, then I don't think we'd be as frustrated, but instead we've got this conga line of excuses that keep coming.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

I think he's released waaaay too many preview chapters. I don't read them myself, i never do, but people who do have already seen a significant chunk of the book. Why do that to yourself?

[Mentalist]

likewise, RLY. I've only read the one Dany chapter that was in AFFC

according to some, there are like 12-15 preview chapters floating around on the i-nets--that's something like 15-20% of the book, at least... and if AFFC is any indicator, I'll be done ADwD in a DAY and the I'll be stuck another 6 years waiting for the next one...

[Terez]

hmmm...would all these chapters happen to be contained in a single place somewhere?

[Mentalist]

They are somwhere on the internets...
It was mentioned on this site before, as well as the ASOIAF facebook group...

[Kulp Diet]

Briar King;317617 said:

I was thinking that he needed to start writing his ass off. What is going to happen when the TV series on HBO gets to ADWD. He prob. won't even have book 6 finished by then and that is still prob 5 yrs away if the show launches in late 08-09.

HBO is not known for its regualr, timely releases either (remember Sopranos?). So double that time prediction...at least. The exponential delays between Martin and HBO combined could result in the actors dying of old age while Martin's grandson is finishing the final book from the notes he found under Martin's catbox.

[caladanbrood]

Terez;317361 said:

hmmm...would all these chapters happen to be contained in a single place somewhere?

I imagine they're on his website. Personally I'm avoiding reading them, it just enocurages him to spend more time sitting at his computer thinking Oh, one more hit - another appetite sated for some more years, let's go and re-do seven chapters just to make sure...

[Kulp Diet]

caladanbrood+;317626 said:

I imagine they're on his website.

He rotates one at a time on his website, and I don't think he even goes through them all, just 2 or 3 favorites I think. I'm positive they are all posted on the ASoIaF fan forum.

[Optimus Prime]

caladanbrood+;317626 said:

I imagine they're on his website. Personally I'm avoiding reading them, it just enocurages him to spend more time sitting at his computer thinking Oh, one more hit - another appetite sated for some more years, let's go and re-do seven chapters just to make sure...

LOL! That's exactly why I've avoided them. I won't feed his ego anymore until he actually puts out ANOTHER BOOK!

It's almost embarrassing how long he's taken at this point. Writing is by no means an exact science, but he needs to get his ass focused.

[Optimus Prime]

I knew it would take him a while after starting back from scratch after so long, but I mean...shit man...when was AFfC published by the way? 1876?

Still, I must admit I'm still waiting for ADwD.....hoping Martin can regain his form.

[paladin]

he doesnt always release his stuff on his website.. part of affc was released in dragon magazine and ive seen some stuff released through the westeros forum if i recall. im sure someone has it all compiled

[Slum]

The little excerpts he releases aren't spoilers in any way...more like teasers or movie trailers than anything else. Just enough to keep the masses hungry for more. And appease his rabid groupies, who're more concerned with how he is dealing with his runny nose or the death of his cat than how he is progressing on his novel.

I think (because I don't really know) that GRRM doesn't really have a 'work schedule'. He probably doesn't sit down and force himself to write for 5-8 hours a day, five days a week.

[Werthead]

Actually, the chapters from the con readings aren't really of any use now as a lot of them have been rewritten, in one case substantially:

Spoiler

A medium-level antagonist whom people thought was going to stick around and cause problems for the rest of the series dies rather surprisingly very early in ADWD, whilst in the former draft he survives and apparently was going to be an ongoing threat.

Some of the more recent stuff, like the new Jon chapter and the prologue, are still reliable though.

Quote

Espescially since this was the second half of AFFC that supposedly was finished and just chopped in half at the release of book 4. 3yrs later now.

Interesting. GRRM never said this. Where did you hear this from?

The problem here, as I covered before, is that a lot of people thought AFFC sucked, or more charitably 'had problems'. GRRM has decided to fix those problems which has necessitated a virtual rewrite of all the material he had left over from AFFC. Obviously this put the "ADWD out in one year," thing out the window.

So what would people prefer: a book that came out a year ago and was similarly flawed, or one that comes out within 6-8 months of now and is actually decent?

[Optimus Prime]

I'm glad the guy is taking care to correct whatever was "wrong" with the previous book, but even you Wert (I gather you are a huge fan of his, you usually defend him, as a big fan would, no problem there) have to admit that he hasn't been....focused enough it seems.

[Abyss]

Werthead;317710 said:

...
So what would people prefer: a book that came out a year ago and was similarly flawed, or one that comes out within 6-8 months of now and is actually decent?

Fundamentally, i suspect what people would prefer is a quality book on a regular basis. 1 year, two years, whatever, not this sense of mythical maybe-it-is-maybe-it-isn't.

Not a mediocre unsatisfying book after a protracted wait, and especially from GRRM who nailed those first three books and even moreso, given that many/most fans of one are fans of the other, with Robert Jordan (book meltdown AND death) in our brains: you read a bunch of books, and they're great, and then you wait and wait and the next one comes out, and it's maybe dissapointing, and then you wait a LOT and the next one is crap, and then maybe the next one is slightly better but then the author kicks. The parallels and the potential are disturbing. Hell, RJ left Matt under a wall for three years+ and that more or less signalled the beginning of the end. GRRM left one character with a sword mid-dropping on them...



- Abyss, notes SE fans are especially spoiled.

[Optimus Prime]

In some ways, ADwD has to be great. I can't imagine the backlash if, after all this time, the book isn't at least as brilliant as aSoS. I still think Martin has too many hands in other things, keeping him from his cash cow, aSoIaF, but hey, it's his life and his work....right?

I'm hoping for the best, but preparing for god knows what.

A world with both brilliant SE and awesome GRRM is a world I want to live and read in.

[QuickTidal]

Werthead;317710 said:

Interesting. GRRM never said this. Where did you hear this from?

Actually he did. He made his post about A Feast For Crows growing to large to be one volume and having to split it into two halves, but since he was nearly done the whole thing as it was that A Dance With Dragons would follow quite soon on its heels as most of that would have been already written (as it was a part of AFFC that he was nearing finishing as one large volume)...and that it could follow at around a year later....

3 years later and nada...

[Werthead]

What he said when AFFC was sent off for publishing (May 2005) was that ADWD should follow about one year after AFFC (which - evidently - was wrong). If the book had simply been split, it obviously would have been much sooner, but he still hadn't completed all the chapters for ADWD. In fact, he specified that he had 500 manuscript pages for ADWD left over from AFFC, but he thought that ADWD was going to come in at 1300-1500 MS pages, so he still had more than 60% of the book to write even at that stage, not taking into account 1) his much-bigger-than-originally-planned signing tour, and 2) his later desire to rewrite most or all of that material left over from AFFC as well.

On the rewriting thing, since that's what seems to have caused the bulk of the wait, I can only say it seems to have been worthwhile: the new prologue is awesome and:

Spoiler

Jon's second chapter, which is the one he heavily rewrote after reading out the original version at a con years ago, nearly caused me to spray tea over the keyboard in disbelief. It was very much a 'SoS' moment rather than any of the quieter revelatory moments from AFFC.

[paladin]

my understanding was that he split the viewpoints because the book was too big and he had a good amount of work done on the split povs prior to doing that would lend to adwd being partially complete. so what was planned for one book was too large, so he split the pov characters.

[Werthead]

paladin;317918 said:

my understanding was that he split the viewpoints because the book was too big and he had a good amount of work done on the split povs prior to doing that would lend to adwd being partially complete. so what was planned for one book was too large, so he split the pov characters.

That is correct. He had part of ADWD complete when he finished AFFC. He then chose to rework that finished material, so the value of having it in hand diminished. The problem is that people seem to think he had half the book completely, 100% finished the second he finished AFFC and he never needed to touch that material again, which is very much not the case. A lot of confusion was also caused by him repeatedly saying he had 'half' the book finished when he was rather generously rounding up. It was more like a third, at best.

As others have said, part of the problem is that GRRM hasn't communicated clearly on occasion and has inclined to optimism the rest of the time. If he'd simply said that he was splitting the book and he had no idea when ADWD was coming out, he wouldn't have had half the criticism he has had.

A new issue that has also emerged in the last few months to further confuse matters:

Spoiler

Is that ADWD will actually have some of the AFFC characters in it, at least one more than we previously knew about and possibly more.