[Greymane]

On the Non-Men seen serving the Consult;

Immortality has driven some Nonmen insane. These are known as Erratics. They can no longer hold their own memories, unless they committ acts of gross destruction and cruelty, because "a cut scars, where a caress fades away".

The majority of Nonmen are still opposed to the Consult.

[Optimus Prime]

Careful, not everyone has read the whole series, might want to edit that and put spoiler tags around it.

Spoiler

I agree though. I don't think all Non Men are with the Consult.

[Ammanas]

Nevuk;300108 said:

I just read the first two books of this series, and the second seriously made me hate Kelhus. This is likely to do with my personal stances on most of the philosophies he represents, but even more than this he struck me as a character who was written to have no flaws. And the quasi-religious treatment his act gets towards the end of book two is downright sickening.

Spoiler

Not referring to the cult like status he acquires, but to the whacked out torture he goes through with Seswe. And how it drags on... and on.... forever. It was as if the author wanted to make it worse than what Achamian had gone through, with how the only one of them getting pitied at the end was Kelhus.

I found Achamian and Cnauir to be the only two likable characters by the end of book two. Cnauir's opinions concerning Kelhus I thought were totally accurate, but I've never cared for manipulators, especially ones written to have no flaws. I'm not sure if I even feel like reading the third, I have better books lined up to read anyways.

Wow, everything you say about Kellhus is true. But that's what makes him so interesting. IMHO, he's the most interesting character ever created. Not likable, but interesting.

Spoiler

In his defense, he was raised by the Dunyain in total isolation--don't bash the guy because he wasn't exposed to the context of what most of us would term "appropriate behavior."

As the next book takes place twenty years later, I'm curious to see what direction Kellhus' evolution has taken.

[Mentalist]

Since I agree with Nevuk to a alrge extent, I'll respond to that.
Yes, we may cut him some slack for his upbringing. Nonetheless, getting insight into his thoughts and seeing how he thinks of everyone else as mere tools.... it's hard for some people to deal with. I mean, he fucks up and destroys the lives of most of the people around him--really reminds of Dumas' Lady Winter in some ways...
He's certainly different, and interesting to read about, but he's not at all likeable. I find it hard to see any "redeeming" qualities to him. and his big moment to shine (a certain event in book 2, already mentioned), irritated me. I mean, yes, you're fairly certain of the outcome and you're supposed to be feeling for him, but it's hard to do so. Very hard.

[Reborn]

I love this series. I love Bakker's excellent prose, I love his characterization (Yes, most of them can act quite unsympathetic from time to time but I have no problems with that, no, I like the fact that there seldom is any black and white -- apart from the dark, dark consult -- and I care for the characters despite their flaws, and consider most of them interesting to some degree even if I happen to hate them), and I love the general dark atmosphere. I had some problems with the plot but this complaint pales in comparsion with all that I adore about the books. He is, in my opinion, one of the best of the genre.

[Yellow]

Well said. Hopefully his follow-ups will live up to PoN.

[No-God]

Just a heads up, Bakker's latest book (not the next in this series, a thriller) Neuropath is out tomorrow in Canada. Already got mine pre-ordered!

[caladanbrood]

Oh goody, brainfuck time

[Werthead]

Flipped through Neuropath last night. Bakker's conclusions and ideas aren't particularly new (although they are backed up by new research) but his writing is pretty horrific (as in, engendering a sense of horror and disgust in the reader, not as in really bad). I will read it when the stress of moving house is behind me and I can really think about the topics it raises.

[Ammanas]

kud13;300379 said:

Since I agree with Nevuk to a alrge extent, I'll respond to that.
Yes, we may cut him some slack for his upbringing. Nonetheless, getting insight into his thoughts and seeing how he thinks of everyone else as mere tools.... it's hard for some people to deal with. I mean, he fucks up and destroys the lives of most of the people around him--really reminds of Dumas' Lady Winter in some ways...
He's certainly different, and interesting to read about, but he's not at all likeable. I find it hard to see any "redeeming" qualities to him. and his big moment to shine (a certain event in book 2, already mentioned), irritated me. I mean, yes, you're fairly certain of the outcome and you're supposed to be feeling for him, but it's hard to do so. Very hard.

Hehe, you can't see any redeeming qualities cuz he doesn't exhibit any. But I keep reading to see if he will change. Now that he

Spoiler

has the Gnosis, I can't really foresee how he can be killed cept by the No-God.

If I were living in the Three-Seas, I'd be less worried about Kellhus than I would be his children.

[Yellow]

Nah, I think Kellhus is by far the biggest worry.

Spoiler

One of his kids is not even his kid. The other one is half "human", i.e. is born from a normal woman, and so not only lacks half of the Dunyain genes, but also lacks pretty much all of the Dunyain training. Kellhus will have been busy over the past 20 years. There's no way he's had time to train his half-human kid to Dunyain standards. Best he can hope for is a more-effective version of Maithanet.

So yeah. Kellhus is still the force of reckoning in the next series, I reckon.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

I'm halfway through book three. Overall, it's been a damn good trilogy. I'm interested to see how it all wraps up. SHouldn't take me too much longer, I only bought the last book yesterday.

[Ammanas]

Yellow;301067 said:

Nah, I think Kellhus is by far the biggest worry.

Spoiler

One of his kids is not even his kid. The other one is half "human", i.e. is born from a normal woman, and so not only lacks half of the Dunyain genes, but also lacks pretty much all of the Dunyain training. Kellhus will have been busy over the past 20 years. There's no way he's had time to train his half-human kid to Dunyain standards. Best he can hope for is a more-effective version of Maithanet.

So yeah. Kellhus is still the force of reckoning in the next series, I reckon.

Yes but

Spoiler

A murderous, more effective version of Maithanet sounds pretty fucking scary.

[Optimus Prime]

I can't wait for the new series.

Spoiler

Just exactly what is the fucking No-God?!?! It's been driving me nuts and I can't wait to get a better glimpse into what he is. Sounds pretty awful though.

[Ammanas]

Xander;301179 said:

I can't wait for the new series.

Spoiler

Just exactly what is the fucking No-God?!?! It's been driving me nuts and I can't wait to get a better glimpse into what he is. Sounds pretty awful though.

C'mon can't you guess?

Spoiler

I thought there was a great description of the No-God in one of Akka's dreams but I don't remember which book it was in. I believe the description came in the sequence when they took him down with the Heron Spear. I vaguely remember thinking the No-God was everything God isn't(vast quantities of every negative thing you could imagine) compressed into one towering whirlwind kind of body.

[Mentalist]

this thread degenarated into spoilered spec...
We should try to keep this stuff in the appropriate thread (one of Wert's interview threads, for example), and focus on PoN specifically here.

To sum up the thread so far:

It is not a series for everyone;
Certain aspects of the writing, as well as characters portrayed may be unwelcome to certain readers (likewise, I've met people who gave up on GRRM after running into several Tyrion sex scenes)
Most readers that can get past that tend to think good things about it, ranging from "interesting" to "wicked awesome"
There is no determined "best book" in this trilogy, as people's opinions vary.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Just finished the last book. I really enjoyed these books. I am pumped for the story to continue. Good stuff. I love the magic system.

[Ammanas]

Raymond Luxury Yacht;302006 said:

Just finished the last book. I really enjoyed these books. I am pumped for the story to continue. Good stuff. I love the magic system.

Yeah, the geometric descriptions are pretty freakin cool. I also like the names of spells and effects.

[The Tyrant Lizard]

I'm halfway through book one - so far the writing has kind of blown me away. I've never been so captivated by a book, whre nothing has actually happened. And that is mant as a complement. its a testiment to Bakker's writing that i'm still page turning with gusto

[Use Of Weapons]

I had the same reaction. It took me couple of tries to get over the random accent syndrome in the names for everything, but the quality of the writing is certainly above average for the genre.