[Optimus Prime]

That's my point. The short tail society didn't have this feature, which to the long tails made them primitive. The long tails couldn't control the more individualistic short tails because they couldn't understand the lack of cohesion and "mind melding".

[Aptorian]

Well, the Nahruk were clever enough to create mechanized entestine bugs to clean their system, so "not being able to understand" might not be the right word for it.

Rather I just think they stopped depending upon magic. It's been theoriesed that they are order aspected, which is a bit silly, seeing as it's not a real aspect, but it might mean that they sought a different way than the raw "chaos" of magic itself. Rather their technology might have been developed specifically so that they could manipulate magic with out the need of "adepts", Matrons or lesser magic wielders.

I hope we get some info on the lizards sooner or later.

[Tarr]

I think it's just a case of the Nahruk being given too much brains to be "politically correct" like the Kells were, they had too many political parties and none of them fell in line with "the ruling parties line" i.e. what the matrons wanted or would allow.

Que english style K'chain civil war short tails versus longtails, longtails win and exterminate Nahruk who are later brought back as an "act of political expedience" to help the matrons in some war.

And kallor would prefer a brutal dictatorship

[Mentalist]

well, I guess we'll just have to disagree on it then--at least untill SE gives us a K'Chain PoV with a flashback to how things used to be...

[Wry]

Quote

Que english style K'chain civil war short tails versus longtails, longtails win and exterminate Nahruk who are later brought back as an "act of political expedience" to help the matrons in some war.

I think you're getting a bit confused.

There wasn't a civil war before the nahruk extinction-recreation

The Nahruk are an earliervariant of the K'chain species, which died out before the K,chain achieved world wide dominance. Then the Matrons re-created them. Then some of the nahruk, not the whole population and not all at the same time, revolted against their matrons, starting the civil war. one of the reasons for this is the different ways they use magic, k'chain drones "relinquish" their magic abilities to the matron, and with their combined abilities the matron weild power to rival the gods. Whereas nahruk keep their individual power to themselves.

[Blub]

@Apt

Quote

By the way people are making a common mistake in this thread. Both the longtails and shorttails are called
K'Chain Che'Malle. The shorttails name is just longer, K'Chain Che'Malle Nahruk, why is anyones guess.

I don't think it's a mistake: K'Chain are always either referred to as Che'malle or Nah'rhuk.

@Tarr

Quote

And the Kell hunters are quoted as being the first born so they probably predated the Nahruk!

You're misinterpreting a quote from MoI: the K'ell are the first born of each brood - one Matron's family - not of all the K'chain.

[Ain't_It_Just_]

Aaaaarghhh.... I'm confused. Someone write me a timeline!

[Thelomen Toblerone]

Timelines in MBotF are even more confusing, so they wont help.

[lasombra]

Tarr ur info on K'Chain Che'Malle is rather off, abit south east west side off lol

[Optimus Prime]

Aptorian;299622 said:

Well, the Nahruk were clever enough to create mechanized entestine bugs to clean their system, so "not being able to understand" might not be the right word for it.

Rather I just think they stopped depending upon magic. It's been theoriesed that they are order aspected, which is a bit silly, seeing as it's not a real aspect, but it might mean that they sought a different way than the raw "chaos" of magic itself. Rather their technology might have been developed specifically so that they could manipulate magic with out the need of "adepts", Matrons or lesser magic wielders.

I hope we get some info on the lizards sooner or later.

You misunderstood. The Long Tails "couldn't understand", not the Short Tails. I'm saying the Short Tails aren't more primitive, the long tails just may have viewed them as such because of their differences.

[Aptorian]

Ah, I see... that makes sense.

[Optimus Prime]

Aptorian;299991 said:

Ah, I see... that makes sense.

Yes my padawan....everything is coming clearer now.....

*rubs hands together*

Excellent.


I want a scene inside one of those skykeeps full of long or short tails. I just want to know how those damn things work.

[Ain't_It_Just_]

Xander;299996 said:

Yes my padawan....everything is coming clearer now.....

*rubs hands together*

Excellent.


I want a scene inside one of those skykeeps full of long or short tails. I just want to know how those damn things work.

The annoying thing is it's hard to see how Kaschan sorcery could be used to utilise the sky-keeps... It's based on sound, after all.

I doubt we'll se much KCCM until DoD.... unless the tombs at Morn are explored.

[Optimus Prime]

I thought Kaschan was both Sound and Gravity based?


Anybody got a quote?

[Tarr]

Do you have evidence that the war was after they were recreated because as far as we know the Nahruk are the only ones able to create sky keeps and whatever else. It would take something big to stop the Matrons making them like a rebellion and we don't see or hear current news about this civil war at any point so it was obviously a long time ago.

Blub;299669 said:

@Apt

I don't think it's a mistake: K'Chain are always either referred to as Che'malle or Nah'rhuk.

@Tarr

You're misinterpreting a quote from MoI: the K'ell are the first born of each brood - one Matron's family - not of all the K'chain.

Hmmm...

You may be right because when I read the passage I thought of the brood as in the K'chain variants not as in each brood.


But I was talking earlier about if the matrons can control what they give birth to, they would have to have something like it otherwise they might have ended up with loads of Kell when all they wanted was perhaps some Nahruk.

I still think it's meant as in the K'chain variants but we will need to see some more of the K'chain before I can be proved right.

As to the Nahruk and Matrons being separate species, I don't think so I've already given the quote about the matrons fear of moon spawn and we have never heard of any K'chain apart from the matrons actually having any children.:hand:

And as for the female K'chain in RG it turns out that in the colonies of certain insects all the queens drones may be female and ocasionally a male is produced who leaves the hive and goes to mate with some other queen, so she may not be a matron or able to reproduce. Also to get in the hive the queens attendants ripped off the male insect's wings cause he couldn't fit!!!:eek:

[Seed]

warning: long winded meanderings contained within, take liberally with salt.

Hmmm my impression of the N'hruk/Chemaille divide is that the N'hruk were a more "primitive" earlier evolution of the K'Chain species as per kallor that were brought back by the matrons in a later age. It would be like a pregnant woman from our time (chemaille) suddenly deciding to pop out a cro-magnon pre-modernman baby (N'hruk), albiet with a bit of sorcerous jiggering to regress the gene lines back or whatever.

Back in ancient times when the N'hruk were stomping around the world for the first time, there was no long-tails, they hadn't evolved yet...that came later, there were dragons involved in some fashion at some point, and suddenly what were the K'Chain N'hruk now had long tails and sorcerous powers where before they didn't and are now considered the first born of the dragons - Chemaille.

Unfortunately we just don't have enough information to draw any major conclusions on that first jump period from short-tail to the first long-tail. For the short-tails to be brought back by the Chemaille in a later era, the matrons would need to have access to short-tail genes/pattern which are probably still all stuffed into the matrons junk dna somewhere she can draw it back up as it were for useage. Which would presume that the long-tails were later evolution of the same base species. mmmm thin suppositions. Make of them what you will.

I too get the impression that matron's can jigger around with the characteristics of their offspring in the womb as it were to get whatever kind they were after whether hunter or short-tail etc. Also given the quote regarding the last of the Letheras matrons having their bellies slit on the shores causing their seed/egg/spawn to drain into the sea. I think the seed or egg or whatever k'chain spawn was mutating the shake needed a matron's will to guide it in vitro as it were for it to do it's proper complete transformation on her offspring, otherwise you get a mishmashed jumble of lizard person bits as it tries to run on autopilot. It's like the seed of customisable change, bearing all the required information for any one of the specialised offspring the matron may need to breed up stocks of. It wouldn't surprise me if Matrons were hermaphrodites, producing both the err undesignated embryo and the seed of change.

-Seed ...thinks that only Silchas can tell us what happened back then(or at least whatever party line the short-tails fed him) unless the K'Chain start talking (hissing?).

[Venerus]

Xander;300035 said:

I thought Kaschan was both Sound and Gravity based?


Anybody got a quote?

Midnight tides, 140:

Quote

"Kaschan sorcery," Fear said after a time, "is born of sounds our ears cannot hear, formed into words that loosen the bindings that hold all matter together, that hold it to the ground. Sounds that bend and stretch light, as a tidal inflow up a river is drawn apart at the moment of turning. With this sorcery, they fashioned fortresses of stone that rode the sky like clouds. With this sorcery, they turned Darkness in upon itself with a hunger none who came too close could defy, an all-devouring hunger that fed first and foremost upon itself."

I had a thought that this might be Fear's way of describing String Theory, in which case the sound/gravity connection would make sense (vibrations etc).

[Optimus Prime]

Quote

"Kaschan sorcery," Fear said after a time, "is born of sounds our ears cannot hear, formed into words that loosen the bindings that hold all matter together, that hold it to the ground. Sounds that bend and stretch light, as a tidal inflow up a river is drawn apart at the moment of turning. With this sorcery, they fashioned fortresses of stone that rode the sky like clouds. With this sorcery, they turned Darkness in upon itself with a hunger none who came too close could defy, an all-devouring hunger that fed first and foremost upon itself."

Yeah that sounds like Gravity to me, and the ability to manipulate it and defy it. This also ties into the belief that the KCCM turned Mother Dark into a Black Hole essentially, continually devouring everything around her until all that is left is her own self which too will be devoured.

So the Skykeeps float with some sort of anti-gravity magic.

[Thelomen Toblerone]

It also fits with the description of the room with the bridge in it in the SkyKeep Iccy and Mappo come across.

When they go through the doorway, they find they can float easily, and gravity does not affect them. Plus they get clean, but Im not sure that has anything to do with it.

[lasombra]

Wow MD is in trouble!She eatin herself dead and chaos is after her ass