[Abyss]

kud13;293455 said:

why does everyone forget the Killy Azath?
It's also around...
re: what Abyss said. Gothos ddid say something along the lines of "Azath is the only place that can guarantee us (the race) the solitude we desire." [/parapharase]
And Raest did not seem unhappy with the new job in MoI.
also, there were Jaghut towers built by the Lether Azath. In that respect the connection is practical
re: Azath arizing in places of power--I'd like to look at it the other way--places of power draw people to build cities there, cities become capitals, etc....

You raise a good point re the Killy-under-the-sea Azath... totally forgot that one.


Given my point/your second point re places of power then raises the question what place of power the searching Edur in RG found...


- Abyss, *sings* under the sea.... under the sea...

[Venerus]

kud13;293455 said:

re: what Abyss said. Gothos ddid say something along the lines of "Azath is the only place that can guarantee us (the race) the solitude we desire." [/parapharase]

Gothos:

Quote

I am content here. There are few places in all the realms that offer a Jaghut peace, or, rather, such peace as we are capable of achieving. Unlike your kind, we yearn for solitude, for that is our only safety.

[Mentalist]

yep, that's the one. I'm stuck in the library all day, attempting to study, so no quotes from me today... Ven, you quote fu deserves rep.

[Venerus]

kud13;293464 said:

yep, that's the one. I'm stuck in the library all day, attempting to study, so no quotes from me today... Ven, you quote fu deserves rep.

Awww shucks... <3

I should be studying too but... posting with you forum people makes me happy

[Mentalist]

hah.. what do you think I've been doing fort the last, oh 4.5 hours?
Granted my exam's on ethnic conflict, which is like my favourite topic of all time..

so, about that Jaghut genocide...

[Raraku]

I dont know why but i think there is a connection between Jaghuts and Azath.
The Jhag Odhan and Raraku houses are or were close to where the Jaghut or the Jhag live/lived.
There are Jaghut builings beneath Letherii.
THe Stormriders may have a connection to Malaz island so it may have been a dwelling for them again.
Gothos came to the refgium and so there maybe a connection there too or maybe it was a special thing.
Maybe where ever there was a Jaghut Tyrant there was an opposing Azath house and only later were they used for anchoring fragmented warrens.
I know its full of holes but still

[Gwynn ap Nudd]

Abyss;293447 said:

Some interesting points above.... i'll multi-respond...


Something interesting from those - Tremolor is in Raraku on 7C, where the human First Empire popped up.

The Leth House was in Leth, where another empire started.

This was not a new empire, but the continuation of an old one. Lether started as a first empire colony.

Abyss;293447 said:

Deadhouse - Malaz Island. Do i even need to elaborate?

Finnest House - Darujhistan, richest city on Genabackis and the center for a LOT of the events we've seen and may yet see.

Refugim - the dead come back to life there, hello!

All of which is to say, there may be some significance to the presence of the Houses, other than or in addition to our speculation about any link to the 'Lost Elementals' ref'd in TB

Other than the possible drawing of power to power, I think most of these can be chalked up to coincedence. We've never been given an idea of just who many Azath there are (other than Cotilion's comment about mapping all the Azath taking longer than a mortal lifetime), so it seems likely that the only reason the ones we've seen are in places of power is because that's where the story has largely been concentrated. There may be more off in little back woods towns, or out in the woods themselves, but the story doesn't take place there.

[Adjutant Stormy~]

very reasonable. And a valid point, the scope of our experience limits our evidence.

Azath are likely extensively distributed, though not necessarily throughout the mundane world. To think we've seen enough of the Azath which are vast, ambiguously motivated (if motivated at all), absurdly influential, and if you'll pardon the pun, major powerhouses in the field of the pantheon, is silly.

We've not enough evidence to show cause and effect. The cities around the azath may be due to something like the anthropomorphic principle.

The fact that they're in evidence (as having cities around them) is because they have cities around them (and thereby have plot merit). By this biased sampling, we try to conclude that they generate cities and empires in general.

[Venerus]

[Edit]: Apparently, it is too crazy

Is this too crazy? Could the FE have tricked Iccy into destroying the Odhanhouse? Old quotes but all this Azath talk has got me thinking...

Trake:

Quote

Gods, we tore a warren to pieces on that distant continent.

Phyrlis:

Quote

"...[the Azath] was already dying and had been for years. Fatally wounded. Oh, Icarium was on his knees by the time he finally delivered the mortal blow, raving with madness...
...so the house died, weakening the fabric...
Sufficiently for the warren to be torn apart"

She specifically doesn't say HE tore it apart... just that it was weakened enough to BE torn apart... and I have too much faith in SE to think that phrasing "torn apart" is coincidence. Well, obviously it could be. Just speculatin'.

Re: Abyss' point about Azaths being near civilization: I think that's a good one. Azath pop up where there's out-of-control power, right? It makes me think that sentient beings are the most destructive forces on Wu, and the poor little Azath are trying to keep up. Get a bunch of knuckleheads together and they're bound to try to blow up a warren or call an alien god down or what have you... silly empires. 'Ware the wrath of mortals...

[Zanth13]

So Do you think Osserc suffered any thing similar to what Iccy did for destroying an Azath...

And I would think you would stand a better chance of destroying one if you attacked it from with out...

I think once you get pulled in its game over until it dies or is weakened.

ok wow... back to this post... got distracted by an hours worth of actual work and I forgot what I was going to write about...

maybe I will remember.. ill edit later if I remember

[Mentalist]

Venerus;293623 said:

Is this too crazy? Could the FE have tricked Iccy into destroying the Odhanhouse? Old quotes but all this Azath talk has got me thinking...

Trake:



Phyrlis:



She specifically doesn't say HE tore it apart... just that it was weakened enough to BE torn apart... and I have too much faith in SE to think that phrasing "torn apart" is coincidence. Well, obviously it could be. Just speculatin'.

Re: Abyss' point about Azaths being near civilization: I think that's a good one. Azath pop up where there's out-of-control power, right? It makes me think that sentient beings are the most destructive forces on Wu, and the poor little Azath are trying to keep up. Get a bunch of knuckleheads together and they're bound to try to blow up a warren or call an alien god down or what have you... silly empires. 'Ware the wrath of mortals...

this seems vaguely familiar... as if I argued with someone about the unlikelyhood of the 2 events occuring simultaneously...

[Zanth13]

kud13;293644 said:

this seems vaguely familiar... as if I argued with someone about the unlikelyhood of the 2 events occuring simultaneously...

yeah true..

you know we still need an answer about how warrens are connected to the Azath...


and how the Azath are connected to other worlds.

[Ayrin]

Yes, the connection Warrens -> Azath is interesting. Somewhere (DHG?) there is a discussion on the names of the Azath, and how this seems to indicate a connection to holds/warrens/something.

Tremorlor - House of Life
Finnest - House (or was it hold? Don't have the books here, so I can check) of Ice
Deadhouse - House of Death

Sure, that's only three of them, but I don't believe we have names for any more of Azath. Neither is this really evidence that an Azath is connected to a specific Warren, but it is still quite interesting .

Regarding the amount of Azath houses, in Deadhouse Gates, when Fiddler and the rest walk around inside Tremorlor they end up on a large tiled floor which seems to stretch forever. Isn't there some speculation there that there are immense numbers of Azath, spread over the realms?

Of course, you really only need three points to define an infinite plane, but anyways .

[Flawed]

Perhaps like normal trees the Azath have multitudes of roots. There may not be that many Azath accross the realms but their roots spread out and touch the warrens. Allowinf transportation. If that was the origional intended use i dont know or perhaps its just a natural grouonding of the Azath to it all.

[Obdigore]

Don't you guys remember how Cotillion and Edgewalker were disussing about how the Azath houses represent 'elder forces'. Stuff without gods, which, as discussed earlier, could be like time, night (not darkness, night), hate, lust, whatever?

I still personally think the Azath are a species that form somewhat of a hive mind to achieve goals to keep the species alive. Something able to destroy an azath? Find some way to make that tool yours, or destroy it.

The two that have destroyed an azath? Iccy is mad, and kept in line by nameless ones, and (ROTCG SPOILERS)

Spoiler

Osseric has been pretty damn absent for a couple millenia

[Venerus]

Ok I have maybe a strange question. In DHG, Tremorlor needs a new guardian because his... her? It's old guardian has been dead for a while. When Fid et al finally get inside, Fid falls over a pile of bones, which turns out to be the old guardian. When they take a closer look, they all decide that it's an Assail skeleton.

Then in Midnight Tides, an Azath takes an Assail as guardian again, via Kettle. Someone says, I think it's Bugg(?), that it's very unusual for an Azath to take an Assail as a guardian.

So two questions, I suppose:
1. Why of the handful of Azath that we've seen have three of them (incl Killy's underwater adventure Azath) have Assail in them if it's so unusual?
2. Is the Assail from Tremorlor dead because Kettle scooped out his brains?

[SiriusL]

1) It seems to me that the Azath and Assail might be two "forces" at odds in their method, if not their ends. The Azath answer to everything is to contain power imbalances. The Assail answer is to kill everything. One is passive, and one is very much aggressive, but both are trying to maintain a balance by negating the offending entity.

2) I have a loony/crazy theory that seems a bit outside the box. I hate to bring up the whole RPG angle, but what if the Azath represent the "rules" to the game, and are sort of the hand of the DM/GM in keeping the game fair? If you think of the series as one big game (which it was at one point, right?), the Azath suddenly seems like a guide and rule book. If you need to get from one realm to another, the Azath show you the way. If your character starts going outside the bounds of acceptable behavior, the Azath sucks in and contains your character.

Who have arguably been the two most effective players of late? Shadowthrone and the Crippled God, both of whom are either outside the rules, or just don't play fair. This is where it gets really crazy: Kellenved and Dancer realized they were in a huge game, and figured out how to use the Azath to get out of it (or to win it). They know that the only way to beat the cheater (the CG) is to break the rules yourself.

So, someone saw off the limb I'm dangling from...

[Mentalist]

Ayrin;293664 said:

Yes, the connection Warrens -> Azath is interesting. Somewhere (DHG?) there is a discussion on the names of the Azath, and how this seems to indicate a connection to holds/warrens/something.

Tremorlor - House of Life
Finnest - House (or was it hold? Don't have the books here, so I can check) of Ice
Deadhouse - House of Death

It's actually from MoI. Paran + Silverfox talking...

[Ayrin]

kud13;293915 said:

It's actually from MoI. Paran + Silverfox talking...

Ah, oki, thanks .

Unfortunately, my books are in one location and my internet connection in another, so I can't really check things right now... will get better soon! *promise*

[D'rek]

Ayrin said:

Yes, the connection Warrens -> Azath is interesting. Somewhere (DHG?) there is a discussion on the names of the Azath, and how this seems to indicate a connection to holds/warrens/something.

Tremorlor - House of Life
Finnest - House (or was it hold? Don't have the books here, so I can check) of Ice
Deadhouse - House of Death

The problem I have with this is that some Azath seem aspected to High Houses from the Deck, while others are aspected to warrens. There is no house of Ice, but there's no warren of 'life'. It's confounding. One would think the underwater Azath is aspected to water, which again is a warren but not in the Deck.

Then there's the damn Azath basements. The Finnest-House has a floor of tiles that represent the Deck and the Tiles of the Holds, while Tremorlor has a basement with tiles representing geography....